Can't stop Easy Ryder fan leaves from dying - N deficiency or not??

Hi,

This is my first post ever, mainly due to my native language not being English, so please ignore any spelling / grammar mistakes. The posts on this board have been a great help for me getting my grow started, but I am now facing I a problem I just cannot find an answer for:


This is my first grow and I am at day 25 from seed and 1 week into flowering. I am growing Easy Ryder and La Diva in 7inch pots. About two weeks from breaking soil, the lower fan leaves on both plants started yellowing, drying out and dying. I realized that I had given no nutes until then (apart from Canna Rhizotonic plus the nutes that came in the soil; I am using BioBizz Allmix), so started feeding with Biobizz Grow. I went nearly full strength on the Easy Ryder and half strength on La Diva since I had read that this particular strain was somewhat sensitive to nutes.. Anyway, this did the trick for La Diva since I haven't seen any more yellowing ever since. The Easy Ryder, however, is gettting worse by the day. The first set of fan leaves has already fallen off completely, the second pair is well on its way and I can now see that some of the middle to upper plant parts are affected as well.

From the beginning, I have suspected that the yellowing is caused by a N deficiency, so I kept feeding every three days Biobizz Grow plus recently a relatively weak dose of Biobizz Bloom and TopMax to support the ongoing flowering, but the plant is still getting worse and growth is also stunted (I feed the very same to La Diva now and she is doing great!!). There are also some brown spot occuring in the middle of some of the affected leaves, which turn dark and eventually die, leaving only holes.

I am now starting to think that I might need to increase the Biobizz Grow dose to get more nitrogen to the plant, but I am scared of nute burn since I am already feeding the maximum recommended dose. Does it look like N deficiency to you or might something else be causing the yellowing and dying of the leaves? I have read that yellowing at the end of the flower period is normal, but I am only 1 week into flowering! It might also be a PH issue; I am using a cheap light/moisture/ph combi device which shows a ph of about 7.5 when I stick it into the soil, HOWEVER, the original biobizz PH was 6.8 and I always feed with PH adjusted water (around 6.5), so I wouldn't know what would cause this increase! When I measure the water coming out of the drainage holes after watering, the PH shows around 6.7 which should be fine! What would you recommend? Flushing? More nutes?

Thanks in advance for your help!!!


My setup:
Homemade plastic grow box 40x40x65cm, 1x 125w CFL 2700k (for La Diva & Easy Ryder), 2x 65w CFL 6400k (for 3 other plants not mentioned above which are still in veg. stage). Standard Fan, Humidifier, 170cfm extractor fan with OdorSok Carbon Filter. Light cycle 20/4, temperatures between 25 and 32 degrees Celsius (77-90F).

*BUMP* Anyone??

first off that a sweet little box

I would try to get the temps down and maybe flush

and this may help you

Nutrient Disorder Problem Solver
To use the Problem-Solver, simply start at #1 below. When you think you've found the problem, read the Nutrients section to learn more about it. Diagnose carefully before making major changes.

1) If the problem affects only the bottom or middle of the plant go to #2. b) If it affects only the top of the plant or the growing tips, skip to #10. If the problem seems to affect the entire plant equally, skip to #6.

2) Leaves are a uniform yellow or light green; leaves die & drop; growth is slow. Leaf margins are not curled-up noticeably. >> Nitrogen(N) deficiency. b) If not, go to #3.

3) Margins of the leaves are turned up, and the tips may be twisted. Leaves are yellowing (and may turn brown), but the veins remain somewhat green. >> Magnesium (Mg) deficiency. b) If not, go to #4.

4) Leaves are browning or yellowing. Yellow, brown, or necrotic (dead) patches, especially around the edges of the leaf, which may be curled. Plant may be too tall. >> Potassium (K) deficiency. b) If not, keep reading.

5) Leaves are dark green or red/purple. Stems and petioles may have purple & red on them. Leaves may turn yellow or curl under. Leaf may drop easily. Growth may be slow and leaves may be small. >> Phosphorus(P) deficiency. b) If not, go to #6.

6) Tips of leaves are yellow, brown, or dead. Plant otherwise looks healthy & green. Stems may be soft >> Over-fertilization (especially N), over-watering, damaged roots, or insufficient soil aeration (use more sand or perlite. Occasionally due to not enough N, P, or K. b) If not, go to #7.

7) Leaves are curled under like a ram's horn, and are dark green, gray, brown, or gold. >> Over-fertilization (too much N). b) If not, go to #8…

The plant is wilted, even though the soil is moist. >> Over-fertilization, soggy soil, damaged roots, disease; copper deficiency (very unlikely). b) If not, go to #9.

9) Plants won't flower, even though they get 12 hours of darkness for over 2 weeks. >> The night period is not completely dark. Too much nitrogen. Too much pruning or cloning. b) If not, go to #10...

10) Leaves are yellow or white, but the veins are mostly green. >> Iron (Fe) deficiency. b) If not, go to #11.

11) Leaves are light green or yellow beginning at the base, while the leaf margins remain green. Necrotic spots may be between veins. Leaves are not twisted. >> Manganese (Mn) deficiency. b) If not, #12.

12) Leaves are twisted. Otherwise, pretty much like #11. >> Zinc (Zn) deficiency. b) If not, #13.

13) Leaves twist, then turn brown or die. >> The lights are too close to the plant. Rarely, a Calcium (Ca) or Boron (B) deficiency. b) If not… You may just have a weak plant.

Thanks stupidclown, I think I will add a pc fan to my air intake which should help getting the temperatures down, thanks for pointing it out!

According to your problem solver, my plant really suffers from N deficiency.. The problem is that I am already watering every two days now to get as much N to the plant as possible, but it obviously still isn't enough - What can I do to increase the N uptake without overwatering or overfertilizing (with nutrients other than nitrogen) the plant?

Off to flush....

there are other things that can look like n deficiency. micro nute lock out, over nute maybe? if you have a couple small things they can add up to look like something else.
I would flush, get your ph and temp in check then go from there

thanks again!! I have now flushed with ph adjusted water only.. Noob question: Do I now leave the plant as it is for a few hours to recover or should I add some grow nutes right away?

leave it be

does your soil have good drainage?
and how much water did you flush with?
how big are the pots?

I would imagine the drainage is okay, I am using Biobizz Allmix with 30% perlite which I believe supports good drainage? Not sure though, and I have also read about other people adding more perlite to their soil which I haven't done - The pot is also very heavy now, much heavier than it usually is after normal watering.. hope I haven't overdone it.
The pots are 18" high and 18" in diameter at the top and I have flushed with about a gallon - Do you think that was enough? <+rep>

it has holes in the bottom yes? put it up on some blocks to let it drain

Sorry, I meant to say the size & diameter of the pots is 18 centimers (7"), not 18 inches

And yes, I am using standard pots I got at the garden center and they have 8 holes in the bottom! I have removed the saucer and the pot is now standing on the wire rack in my grow box. I think temps are okay now, I managed to bring it down to a constant 25C / 77F!!

It's been 24 hours now since I have flushed my Easy Ryder and she seems to be doing okay, the yellowing has either stopped or slowed down, hard to tell at the moment, but she seems to keep flowering, which is great news for me
However, I have discoverd that she has developed purple edges on some of her leaves?! I don't know what it is, could that be stress from the flushing process? I am not too concerned though as long as it does not get any worse (It is so little that it won't even show on the photos I took earlier..)

Anyway, a few pictures (the large plant in the second photo is the "healthy" La Diva which has the same age as the Easy Ryder (behind it) and the smaller plants are 2 Red Dwarfs & 1 Blueberry which have btw started to flower today, YEAH!! ):

nice! glad it worked out.
how do you like the easy ryders? i just got my diesel ryder seeds

and did you do a seed run so you can keep growing them?

thats my plan first grow for seed then I'll have enough to grow for bud

Well I like that they grow incredibly fast, but I was actually quite annoyed that so many leaves turned yellow and died (which is still happening btw but luckily at a much slower rate now thanks to the flushing and it's also pushing flowers out like crazy ) whereas the La Diva plant, which is more or less on the same feeding schedule, does not show any problems at all! I am no expert in growing (as I said, it's my first grow - which was mainly the reason why I selected this "easy" strain..) but I feel La Diva grows better and she smells AWESOME compared to the Easy Ryder!! Can't say anything about the blueberry & red dwarf strains yet as they are only 2 weeks old...

I had actually planned to do a seed run before when I ordered 10 regular LR2 seeds, but they all died (don't even ask why ) and after building my grow box I decided to go for multiple feminized strains so I could get some variety and the best yield for the very limited space I have available in the box! Once this grow is done, I am going to get various other autoflower strains and once I picked my favourite(s) I am definitely going to produce some beans so I don't have to order every two months..

I think the Diesel Ryders are a very good choice, I am going to give them a try next time as well; have you got or are you planning to do a grow diary?

yeah i have a grow diary up.

hope i like the strain or i'll have a ton of beans i wont want to grow.

we have 46 plants already and my diesel seeds just opened today

Some strains hate soggy roots more than others. As a general rule if you let the pots dry so that they feel light, then thoroughly water/feed, then let totally dry out again, and so on, you probably wont get those dying leaves during the veg phase.

Thanks for your input Jonus; I have fed them only once per week during the first two weeks as they did not use up much water, but I have now read about the "2-inch-below-surface" rule and I think I never had let it get _that_ dry.. Will pay better attention to this in the future!

My temp problems are back again.. I thought I had fixed it but when I lowered the suspension rack in my grow box (Never thought my girls would grow so much during flowering!) by one inch today, it caused the Temps to go straight up to 95F!!!! I am no physicist and have absolutely no idea how this is possible?! I currently have one fan blowing fresh air from below and one fan blowing from the side plus a 170cfm extractor fan on the top of the box but this does not help at all. First I thought the thermometer was broken but it is actually working just fine :/ Oh well, I am going to leave the box open tonight and will try to sort it tomorrow after work..

The 'scratch test' does not work as well as the 'lift the pot' test. Pots should be light as if they are full of polystyrene, before watering again. Watering should be thorough with run off.

those lights are a bit close for easy ryders mate!!! they give off alot more bud bigger!!! also i have noticed the easy ryder does not like too much nutes. leave enough time to flush for 4 weeks at least if you dont you will find all of your leaves may start to die! wikid plants though i love the smoke it produces A+++

Dude, your pots are way too small,I guarantee those Easyryders roots have wrapped around and around the inside of that pot over and over again. It can cause you to lose leaves, cos the root system isnt large enough to support the whole plant. Use a 10L minimum or else your yeild will be much smaller that it couldve been.