Can't tell if it's a deficiency or a pH problem... Help appreciated

Moishe

Moishe

Active Member
Hey y'all. I've noticed that sometimes plants will get a bit of a yellowing at the tips, and then rust/brown spots appear. I've seen them completely overtake a set of fan leaves already, and it only seems to really be affecting larger/older growth. pH is on track, as well as reservoir temps... So my best guess is that this is a cal/mag deficiency, a phosphorus deficiency, or a combination of both. I doubt it's nute burn, as the only thing which has been added is silica blast/calmag, and the ppm of the reservoir is steadily decreasing (which would indicate faster uptake of nutrient than water). This is a RDWC setup using distilled water, H&G Aqua Flakes, H&G Roots Exelurator, H&G Plant Nutrient, Botanicare Silica Blast, Botanicare CalMag, and SOS (Super Organic Stimulator). Madfarmer is being used for pH control. Roots look great, and new growth appears to be more than happy, although there is a bit of purple on the top of the stems on the upper levels of the plant, which may be due to the lights being used. When the LEDs go off and a CFL is used for examination, the purple is much less noticeable (but not gone entirely).20140202_141057[1].jpg20140202_141114[1].jpg
Cheers
 
Plant looks hungry bud. If the roots are fine, increase ppm slowly(50 per day) and it'll clear up quick. What ppm are ya runnin now?

Strange that my first guess would have been a root problem. No idea how you get away with putting all that stuff in your res!
 
The ppm was around 530-540 yesterday. 510 today. There's a slightly smaller plant on the same recirc system, not sure if it'll be overfed if it gets more nutes, it's not too dark yet, but the leaves are twisting a little bit. The trick to it, is running corrected distilled water. So that virtually everything going into the root system is calculated nutrient, and AquaFlakes is pretty holistic (especially in conjunction w/ R.E, SOS, Plant Nutrient, CalMag, and Silica Blast). So plants are LOVIN it. Although the pH is a pain in the ass to correct and keep stable due to a low buffer zone in the solution, and the solution is acidic as all hell before correction.
 
Maybe try eliminating everything but your base nutes & see if It clears up, then introduce your additives 1 by 1....like maybe 1 a week & watch for your plants response....you say temps, ph & ppm's are fine so there has to be something being added your plant doesnt agree with....not all plants like the same things & not all can take every & any additive you come across & decide to add.
 
I agree with jojaxx something you're adding they're not liking. After adding all that stuff in you might have a toxicity in one element, leading to a lockout (and deficiency) of another.

Try cutting back to just nutes. You'll save some money and a lot of headache!
 
The solution is more or less to make up for trace elements which aren't in the base ingredients. In my opinion, plants will suffer without the CalMag, RE, PN, SOS, & SB. This problem has also lessened since these were added. The original solution was strictly AquaFlakes and SOS. SOS is a very forgiving additive and helps to break down salts. It works similarly to a beneficial bacteria system. Highly doubtful that it's any of the added nutes. These are also running under 750 True Watt LEDs & 432 Watts CFL, a ton of water aeration/circulation, and good air movement, so it makes some sense that these babies are sucking up nutes like crazy. The new growth is really thriving and the purpling has died down since CalMag was introduced, node structure is incredibly dense, recovery from pinching tops is very rapid, new nodes are popping up every 1 or 2 days, and everything new coming out is almost perfect.
The next 2 days will be a lot of monitoring pH, ppm, and new growth to really get this system down.
 
Ohh ok if you're sure...

Hey I bet if you go to your local grow shop they can sell you something else that the plants will "suffer without".

Good luck with your growing my friend.
 
SnaFuu said:
Ohh ok if you're sure...

Hey I bet if you go to your local grow shop they can sell you something else that the plants will "suffer without".

Good luck with your growing my friend.
Click to expand...
Not trying to put down the advice, or say that I know exactly what's going on, but this is based off of the fact that there are simply missing nutrients within the base, and distilled water contains 0 trace elements.
 
Well @1st sight I say ph cuz my plant looked the same when I 1st introduced her to cal/mag....this was a few grows ago before I started checking my ph regularly cuz I only had been using base nutes with no problem. When I decided to use cal/mag I just mixed it in & went on as usual......2 to 3 days later a few of my leaves looked like yours. I knew it had something to do with the cal/mag cuz it was the only new thing added. Checked ph & it was wayyyyyy off. So yes, stay ontop of the ph readings cuz adding or taking away certain things can have it go crazy.
 
Hey Moishe, I think all Snafuu is saying is, dont get all caught up in the hype that you need 10/15 diff additives to grow. I grew with just flora nova bloom for a few years when I went hydro. Decided to add the cal/mag cuz someone said in flower plants need mag & I was using distilled water the whole time with just a slight lighting of the leaves in veg & a gradual early yellowing in flower.

I have since played with a few other additives but they are not super thrive & bloombastic, but I know I can grow without them. I also recently went back to tap water (125ppm) with no problem.....have fun with ya grow man, & like they say......keep it simple, Peace
 
Here are some pictures ot the plant in question from the 7th, the 14th, and today, the 17th... 15 days from the first post's pics.
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1392631266807.jpg1392631296053.jpg
1392631314415.jpg
The 8 main tops are being spread out from eachother with a straw in today's pics. Anyone find that LEDs tend to exaggerate discoloration? Always worried the plant's going to shit xD. There are also a few pics of the tips of the leaves being torn, is that possibly due to the fans wind tearing them? Or is that bugs? Cuz there are no bugs to be seen near this baby. Res was flushed with ph'd h2o2 & water solution, fresh nute solution was added afterwards. It seems like this girl might be underfed, but ppms are relatively stable. All help is much appreciated.
 
Just makin sure they're nice and healthy, and they are.

hmmmm you know I've seen this before on here, and was never able to get to the bottom of the problem. In the grow I'm talking about, they ended up rebounding and turned into great, healthy plants without changing anything actually. I was very surprised.

What it looks like to me is that they are too rubbery and can't hold themselves up. Do you use silica? Might have too strong of a dose in there. Just an idea.

as for the discolouration, looks to me the older growth is burnt from nutes, but new growth looks fine. Did you drop ppm recently?
 
They hold themselves up great. They look all rubbery and bent from training. Silica is used for them. I was under the impression that silica gave stronger cell walls as well as increased elasticity? The stalks and branches on this girl are really quite thick and strong. What are some bad side effects of too much silica?
PPM has been stabilized at around 510-520.
pH is always between 5.6 and 5.9.
The 750w LED was at about 18" distance from the top and the T5 was about 16" away from the side branches. That may have been a bit too close, causing some of the white spots/tears in the leaves. Will give in update on em in a few days.
 
I think you hit your problem on the head. The light is to close. Sometimes it's the simple things that really fuck with shit. I had the same problem!

Good Luck
 
so you're adding the cal-mag why? there isn't any in anything else you're using??? also, a little silica goes a long way. you may want to try using it in smaller amounts. i use it for ph up, only. i also dilute it with water first. if you pour it straight into your rez, it can easily bind with other nutes/supps.
 
I use around .5-1mL for every 4 litres, but all the nutes are added after all the water is in the mixing container so it's got a good buffer zone from chemically reacting with other nutes. CalMag was supplemented because the plants were showing signs of both Calcium and Magnesium deficiency :P... why else?
 
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