CBD Oil and dry flower
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BobThe420Builder
Well-Known Member
I've done both with great results
Z. Hirsch
Member
Where did you get the numbers from? CBD decarb in the oven at 140 ℃ is a bit too hot, to be honest, considering the temp fluctuation of regular kitchen ovens.
Magical Butter infuses at 160℉ (71℃), right? So, there is quite a difference between 140 and 71. Nothing decarbs below 80 ℃.
Z. Hirsch
Member
hmmm, I can only see the THC temp is okay here. The rest are weird numbers, cause first of all, CBN doesn't decarb... it doesn't have an acid form in nature to start with. secondly, at 280°F (140°C), CBD decarbs fully after 12 min. Continuous heating at 140 °C will just burn CBD into something else. At 130 °C, the total loss of CBD after 50 min is about 25%. I mean, it is doesn't make sense to decarb CBD at 140 °C for 60 minutes. More than 25% of CBD will disappear.
Dang! Thats great insight if you know this area well. What do you recommend please as the best way for me to process for maximum CBD? When I processed mine, I thought it literally tasted like burnt toast! I followed the recommendation to the letter with the timing. Temp prob etc, I even did pre-flight testing before I decarbed given the potential risk for loss. I was quite OCD to get it right.
Z. Hirsch
Member
Cheers, OCD here, too. It is quite doable to maximize the activation of CBD at home, it is just nowadays there are too much contradictory info and too little explanation out there. About activation of cannabinoids in general, there is a spectrum of temp+time set that could work. The problem is in the execution part. If CBD is what you want, then here are the things I learned along the way:
1. CBD doesn't decarb properly in oil in a water bath (100°C ), here is the proof: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6603222/
2. CBD is more volatile than THC, in a controlled lab setting, 140°C 8-12 min with instant cooling is perfect, but in a kitchen, it is not executable, you verly like end up burning CBD when cooking at a temp above 130 °C, because on one hand, oven temp fluctuates, one the other hand, the cooling down part takes time.
3. CBD doesn't decarb fully at a temp lower than 105°C . here is the proof: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5549281/
4. As long as you decarb CBD with a temp above 105, you will have a percentage of loss of the total amount of CBD + CBDA. It is normal, since smoking burns more than 50% of cannabinoids into ash instantly, still people are very okay with it. Decarbing in an oven is still the best option to minimize loss and maximize activation, comparing to smoking and vaping.
Basicaly, there are many things to consider here: 1. activation rate, 2. loss percentage, 3 execution. I make choices from all the possible temp+time sets base on my capacity to control the process. If you don't have lab standard equipment, then my way could also work for you.
These are the combos for maximized activation that are research backed (all CBD-a decarb into CBD):
A. 105 °C + 3-4 hours (minimized loss of total CBDa+CBD)
B. 110 °C + 1-2 hours (minimized loss of total CBDa+CBD)
C. 130 °C + 12 minutes (higher loss of total CBDa+CBD)
D. 140 °C + 8 minutes (higher loss of total CBDa+CBD)
So here is the question: which fits your kitchen invironment?
I personally go for the option B, since it yields result almost like option A, but takes shorter time. Option C and D are not controllable in my kitchen environment. I don't trust my oven to be accurate, and I don't trust myself to be that good at counting minutes.
This is only the CBD part, THC is an other story, the temp+time combos are different. CBG decarb is yet another story with things completely different.
This is what I came up with based on researches and tests. I hope it helps.
It more than helps! Informative and Extremely interesting. I will do the reading on those suggested articles. Just a final question as I have one piece of the puzzle remaining. Given I utilise MCT (as I don’t smoke anymore), the temp and times suggested may render my CBD ineffective? Literally overcooking and destroying the gains achieved during decarb on options A or B. If I increase CBD retention, I think I would definitely branch out and run batches for G then N. At the moment I am not happy with my CBD. Super grateful for your advice and the time taken to share your findings.
Z. Hirsch
Member
Stop smoking, start eating, good choice for getting the most out. Are you worried that cooking in MCT would somehow render your CBD ineffective? Where does your worry come from? What's your cooking temp and time in MCT?
Yes, just concerned it’s too long in the magic butter @160 for 4 hours MCT. Given the strain is high CBD I am thinking of reducing the oil to 140 (lowest setting) for 4 hours given the decarb has already occurred. That’s the thinking anyway. Also half way through the first article and it’s fascinating.
Z. Hirsch
Member
160 F, that's 71,111°C, for infusion, I don't see anything getting burnt at this temp, even when it is 4 hours heating. Not sure about the 140 one, it feels a bit too low to me. I am not aware that MCT would have any different effect on the infusion. You care about bioavailability, hahah, full set I see, I'm checking out lab emulsifier/homogenizer right now, it can magically improve bioavailability, if chosen right. You know what, I'm gonna buy a Magical Butter and test out how much it actually destroys if I follow their instruction, it never seemed right to me. When I do it, I will test out MCT along the way. For infusion, I personally use 100 °C temp for 2-3 hours with any edible oil. In my experience, decarb does make the taste a bit burnt, even when done right.
Z. Hirsch
Member
I actually suspect that Magical Butter, when relabeling a ready soup machine (or soja machine popular in China), applied the machine's "keep-warm" function directly to infusion... because changing the control-chip inside would cost molding money. Or else I really cannot come up with a logical explanation for their temp setting. Why infuse in such a low temp that is typically used in kitchen appliances for "keep-warm" function?
Z. Hirsch
Member
Well, not molding money, the chip is actually cut out, but it is the most expensive part in a soup maker. So...
Z. Hirsch
Member
No problem, cheers!