Chauvin Trial

mooray said:

This trial is about what Chauvin has done wrong.

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TrippleDip said:

He restrained a man using legal and state approved techniques (judged as safe by the government), who then overdosed as confirmed by two separate autopsies. What did he do wrong again?

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George Floyd was not in the best of health when he encountered police officer Derek Chauvin on a South Minneapolis street corner shortly after 8 p.m. on May 25.


At 46, Floyd had three severely narrowed coronary arteries, including one that was 90 percent blocked, autopsies show. His heart was slightly enlarged, probably the result of long-term high blood pressure.

Floyd was a smoker, and he had spent years using street drugs. On that evening, the autopsies reveal, Floyd had a large amount of fentanyl, a small amount of methamphetamine and THC — the active ingredient in marijuana — in his blood.

The video of Floyd gasping for breath and dying beneath Chauvin’s knee that evening ignited a social justice movement and nationwide demand for policing reform. But when Chauvin’s trial for his alleged role in Floyd’s death begins, much of the argument will center instead on the autopsy details, most specifically whether fentanyl and underlying health conditions — not the police officer’s actions — stopped Floyd’s heart and lungs.

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Seven experts in toxicology, cardiology and illegal drug use consulted by The Washington Post largely disagreed with that idea, most of them strenuously. All but one said the autopsy findings and other court documents, coupled with the well-known chain of events that evening, made death by a fentanyl overdose unlikely to impossible. (One expert, Craig Beavers, chair of the American College of Cardiology’s cardiovascular team section, said he did not have enough information about all the circumstances to form a final conclusion.)

“From my review of the video and the autopsy report, I see nothing that makes me think he died of an opioid overdose,” said Kavita Babu, chief opioid officer and chief of the Division of Medical Toxicology at UMass Memorial Health Care in Worcester, Mass. Instead, she and others said, the defense uses events out of order and medical findings out of context to deflect blame from Chauvin to Floyd.

Two autopsies — one by a county medical examiner and another by a private medical examiner hired by Floyd’s family — as well as a review by military experts conducted for the federal government, reached the conclusion that Floyd died of cardiopulmonary arrest as the officers subduing him compressed his neck and chest.

Andrew Baker — the medical examiner in Minnesota’s Hennepin County, who is expected to be a key witness in the trial — formally declared Floyd’s death a homicide in June, listing “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression” as the cause of death.

The report listed heart disease, fentanyl intoxication, recent methamphetamine use and Floyd’s bout with the coronavirus as other “significant conditions.”

The analysis also found other health issues, including sickle cell trait. People who inherit one gene for sickle cell disease and one normal gene have sickle cell trait. They generally do not have any symptoms of the disease but can pass the trait to their children, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Those findings have given Chauvin’s attorney, Eric J. Nelson, an opening to argue that Chauvin is not responsible for Floyd’s death. The trial could begin as soon as March 29.

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“Combined with sickle cell trait [and] his preexisting heart conditions, Mr. Floyd’s use of fentanyl and methamphetamine most likely killed him,” Nelson wrote in an Aug. 28 court filing that unsuccessfully sought dismissal of the charges against Chauvin, which include second-degree murder. “Adding fentanyl and methamphetamine to Mr. Floyd’s existing health issues was tantamount to lighting a fuse on a bomb.”

The defense strategy rings of earlier, successful attempts to blame drugs in police violence against African Americans. In 1992, when four Los Angeles police officers were acquitted of the videotaped beating of motorist Rodney King, one testified of fears that King was on PCP, a drug the officer contended gave King “hulk-like strength.” No PCP was found in King’s system.

“Using drugs to justify harsh policing has a long history in the United States,” said Jon Zibbell, a senior scientist at the think tank RTI International, who studies illicit drug use and public health. “And it’s worked.”

The effects of fentanyl and methamphetamine

Citing footage from Officer Thomas Lane’s body camera for most of his argument, Chauvin’s attorney recounted in court papers that the well-known events from last spring began when Lane and his partner, J. Alexander Kueng, approached Floyd’s car. The rookie officers were investigating a complaint that Floyd had allegedly passed a counterfeit $20 bill in a nearby convenience store, Cup Foods.

Nelson declined a request for an interview.

“A white object was visible in Mr. Floyd’s mouth,” Nelson wrote. “At one point, Mr. Floyd turned away from officers, and when he faced them again, the white object was no longer visible.”

Two other people in the car with Floyd, which was parked outside Cup Foods, told police that Floyd was a habitual drug user, and both later said they believed Floyd “was under the influence of narcotics,” according to the court papers. Floyd had been previously arrested for drug possession.

One of the car passengers, Morries Lester Hall, said Floyd quickly fell asleep in the driver’s seat upon returning from the minimart, according to Nelson’s filing. That could have been a sign of use of illegal fentanyl, a fast-acting sedative and powerful painkiller that produces feelings of euphoria.

The police also suspected that Floyd was using drugs. As Lane and Kueng walked Floyd from the car to a sidewalk, they observed him “acting erratically” and repeatedly asked whether he was drunk or “on something,” according to the court papers.

Police were a part of George Floyd’s life from beginning to end

They also saw foam coming from Floyd’s mouth, which he explained by saying he had been “hooping earlier.” Nelson, citing the online Urban Dictionary, contended that this is an admission by Floyd that he had ingested drugs rectally.

During court proceedings on another matter Monday, Nelson asserted for the first time that fragments of a pill with Floyd’s DNA on it were found in the back of the squad car. The fragments contained methamphetamine and fentanyl, he claimed.
Prosecutors acknowledged the existence of the pill fragments and that they contained methamphetamine, but they did not address the other claims.

The Minnesota attorney general’s office, which is prosecuting Chauvin, has a very different view of events. If Floyd had anything in his mouth, it was probably chewing gum, Assistant Attorney General Matthew Frank and private attorney Neal Katyal wrote in a Sept. 18 response to the defense’s claims.

The “foam” around Floyd’s mouth was probably spittle, they said, and “hooping” was a reference to playing basketball, which Floyd often did. They also noted Nelson’s conflicting claims that Floyd had taken drugs orally and rectally. The prosecutors did not respond to a request for an interview.

George Floyd had long seen sports as his path out of the poverty, crime and drugs of Houston’s Third Ward.

The biggest problem for the defense argument is that events that evening don’t fit a fentanyl overdose, experts said.

“I’m skeptical of the notion of opioid overdose as the cause here,” said David Juurlink, head of the Division of Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Center in Toronto. “The sequence of events isn’t characteristic of opioid overdose.”

Fentanyl kills by shutting down the part of the brain that controls respiration. Breathing slows, then stops, followed by the heart.

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TrippleDip said:

He restrained a man using legal and state approved techniques (judged as safe by the government), who then overdosed as confirmed by two separate autopsies. What did he do wrong again?

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hanimmal said:

Besides you are full of shit as usual believing the right wing propaganda that you have to to believe the lies you do.

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mooray said:

Wow, I guess a guy on the internet knows more than the MN state judicial system, as well as the physiologists that have studied the duration and pressure required to kill someone from cutting off circulation to the neck

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mooray said:

good idea

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TrippleDip said:

Restraint is restraint. Could there have been better choices, yes. Did they make an acceptible choice given the circumstances, yes. Are they criminally liable for fentanyl floyds death, nope.

Is your argument that we shouldn't ever arrest drug addicts because they could have a heart attack? Maybe we shouldn't arrest fat people either. Sound like a good idea? If only those violent criminals would always tell the truth and never lie to get loose and fight back, then the cops could be gentle. Grow up.

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TrippleDip said:

Watch the video. The jurors did, and that's exactly why he will be aquited. Read the transcript, second piece of evidence and public. They are asking him ten minutes before why he has foam on his mouth, he tells them he was running. They ask him why he is acting erratically, why he is having trouble standing up. The people with him are even telling him to stop resisting. Floyd had so many outs to come clean and say he took drugs.

Keep denying reality, it's all on camera. They call him an ems less than a minute after he hits the ground, less thsn 15 seconds after he cries momma. Called again to increase the priority. EMS took 8 minutes.

They had a reasoned discussion about whether to keep him where he was or put him in recovery position - and this is where the trial will be focused. But again, it's on camera, they discuss how he is acting erracticly and speculate he's either on pcp or other excited delerium and possibly faking. They made the best decision they could and so they won't be charged.

Watcu the video, read the transcript. Educate yourself or you are outing yourself as a teller of lies to push an agenda.

Edit to add that he is telling them he can't breath long before he is even on the ground.

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hanimmal said:

reason to kill them.

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TrippleDip said:

How did they kill him? He was saying he can't breath and he's gonna die minutes before he was on the ground. He knew he was overdosing and lied about it, even when directly asked, multiple times.

The autopsies showed he had a fatal level of fentanyl in his system, it's in your post above. Such a restraint is not 1) compressing the lungs as it's over the neck, 2) not comressing arteries as the cop was behind him, 3) not restricting his airways as he can talk fine.

How did the cop kill him, and was it just the white cop or the other three minority officers?

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hanimmal said:

not a justification

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TrippleDip said:

Restraint is restraint. Could there have been better choices, yes. Did they make an acceptible choice given the circumstances, yes. Are they criminally liable for fentanyl floyds death, nope.

Is your argument that we shouldn't ever arrest drug addicts because they could have a heart attack? Maybe we shouldn't arrest fat people either. Sound like a good idea? If only those violent criminals would always tell the truth and never lie to get loose and fight back, then the cops could be gentle. Grow up.

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TrippleDip said:

Arresting a criminal after coming to the aid of two minority shop owners concerned about someone breaking the law is justification to restrain them, especially if they are resisting arrest. Even the people with him were telling him to "stop resisting". This is not debatable.

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TrippleDip said:

How did they kill him?

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TrippleDip said:

He was saying he can't breath and he's gonna die minutes before he was on the ground. He knew he was overdosing and lied about it, even when directly asked, multiple times.

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TrippleDip said:

The autopsies showed he had a fatal level of fentanyl in his system, it's in your post above. Such a restraint is not 1) compressing the lungs as it's over the neck, 2) not comressing arteries as the cop was behind him, 3) not restricting his airways as he can talk fine.

How did the cop kill him, and was it just the white cop or the other three minority officers?

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TrippleDip said:

Arresting a criminal after coming to the aid of two minority shop owners concerned about someone breaking the law is justification to restrain them, especially if they are resisting arrest. Even the people with him were telling him to "stop resisting". This is not debatable.

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TrippleDip said:

Probably the three black jurors that realize fentanyl floyd was in the wrong.

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