Clawing leaves that don't seem to be from N tox or overwatering

Zacarias

New Member
So this is my first time growing and I've been learning pretty much everything as I go, but I can't figure this out.
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My plant is 2 weeks into 12-12 (after vegging for an extended time, about 10 weeks) and some of the leaves have been clawing seemingly randomly for a few weeks now. Sometimes every blade on the leaf claws, sometimes just one or two blades, and I can't figure out what the cause is. I cut out most of the nitrogen from its diet a few weeks ago in preparation for flowering and to see if it was N tox, but it hasn't seemed to affected the claw. I have it in a 5 gallon bucket right now that didn't have enough holes in it, but I drilled 30+ 1 inch diameter holes all along the sides and the bottom of the bucket about a week ago to let the soil drain and dry better but that doesn't seem to have helped either. Maybe I'm watering it too much despite having good drainage and that's it, but I only water when the topsoil feels bone dry once a day at most, but not even every single day. It's been taking 2-3 liters of water with just a bit of runoff, maybe 10%, sometimes more or less. The clawing first started when the plant was only a couple of feet tall, if that. She's now closing in on 5 feet. As far as I can tell the claw is the only weird thing happening, the plant seems to be thriving besides that, growing over an inch per day with new growth and pre-budding coming out of everywhere.

My other thought is that the clawing could be cause by having my lights too close as that has definitely happened a few times, but some of the clawing happens in places where the lights definitely didn't get to close to.

Hoping someone might have some thoughts on this. Thanks in advance.

Some background about my setup in case it helps:
I started from a seed in fox farms ocean forest soil mixed with some coco coir and some happy frog organic 5-8-4 fertilizer. I'm using 3, 36 watt LEDs that are 3/4 red (660nm) and 1/4 blue (460nm) kind of angling in at the sides of the plant, and one 15 watt all red (660nm) LED directly above it. Currently they're all about 1-2.5 feet from the plant. I didn't have a regular nutrient plan until recently, I was adding nutes infrequently because I was paranoid about over fertilizing. Now I'm following a General Organics nute plan using the BioThrive line of nutes.
 

bobtokes

Well-Known Member
i would take the plant out of the pot and check the roots to see if their healthy to start with, also check for bugs that maybe damaging them
 

Zacarias

New Member
I just put it in this 5 gallon bucket a few weeks ago and the roots looked very healthy. They were definitely too big for the previous container, it was a pretty solid mass of roots when i took it out. And what kind of bugs? There are a few little houseflies and moths around but I never notice any lingering around the plant.
 

Wilderb

Well-Known Member
Then it shouldn't be temp related.
When you potted up, you used new FF soil? If so, It has enough nutes for ahwile. In regular light, does it look really Dark green? That is sign it has plenty of N.
Maybe go with just water for next few cycles. Not familiar with those nutes or lights.
With that many holes, you'll probably have to water daily. Covering the top with mulch will help.
Good Luck!
WE
 

Zacarias

New Member
Yeah when I repotted I used more FF along with some more coco and fertilizer that I started with. I just started using these nutes though, for the past few weeks all I've used is plain water and nute mixes without nitrogen. The nutes I'm using now have light nitrogen, but I'll cut back on them a bit just in case. Here's what she looks like in normal light with my camera flash, looks kind of dark does this look like a lot of N?
 

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Wilderb

Well-Known Member
I do not use coco so unsure if there might be specific issues with that? PH?
It looks like it has plenty of N. When you say you added fert when you repotted, do you mean a powdered fert to the soil? That might be a bit much for FF. If you did, every time you water, you'll be giving another dose of N. If so, I might re pot in fresh FF soil only.
If you meant that you added it via water, then I would just water next few doses, and water till GOOD runoff.
Remember that it may take a few days to improve.
It can be tough tracking down issues.
Hope this helps. I used to use FF with their nutes. It worked but always chasing some issue. I think amending the soil with organics is a better, easier way.
WE
 

Zacarias

New Member
I used such a small amount of coco I don't think it's a factor. Someone reccommended mixing it with soil for better drainage/aeration in the soil. And yeah I added a powder mix 5-8-4 when I repotted but since I wasn't watering with nutes regularly I didn't think it would be too much. Plus I used less fertilizer than the dosage it said. I also have been adding microbes throughout the grow to aid in nutrient uptake. Maybe I will repot though, and I'll definitely start watering it more so there's more runoff. Thanks for the advice!
 

Wilderb

Well-Known Member
Good Luck!
You'll get it figured out. Smoking your own is well worth it! When you get a chance, do some reading about the soil web. Good info that will help you grow!
WE
 

Zacarias

New Member
I'm thinking that most of my clawing is from N tox. I've read that the claw won't go away, new growth will just be healthy but the claws on old leaves will remain. And before i redid my lighting settup a couple days ago the top of the plant was approaching just a couple of inches away from the top LED. Could the upper clawing on the newer growth be from too much light intensity or heat that it was getting for a few days?
 

KryptoBud

Well-Known Member
Looks like too much Nitrogen, heat will cause the leaves to roll in on itself people call it tacoing. Like you said the claw on those leaves won't go away, but it looks very minor anyway.
 
Hey man, My flower room just had the same problem. same week and everything, all i did was flush the system once the other day and now im waiting to see if they yellow out a little with just straight PHed water, if they aren't starting to yellow ill just flush them again. i am to the belief that we both have N problem as krypto said its only minor and the affected leaves wont get any better but a good flush and some monitoring you will be fine because you have caught it early :)
 

Zacarias

New Member
Yeah it seems like a flush is the way to go. I think I'm gonna flush today and if more leaves are still clawing in a few days I might repot without the extra fert i have in my soil. I don't think the fert left in my soil should be too strong though cause it says to add more to the topsoil monthly and the last time I added was almost a month ago. I'll be curious to hear how your situation develops too
 

tpc_mikey

Well-Known Member
Leaves are dark green and shinny usually a sign of N toxicity what is the PH of the soil? and FFOF is very rich in N what fertilizer did you add to it, im betting you have an N toxicity and ph is probably 7.2 to 7.5 also you should by 5gal smart pots your roots would be alot happier.
 

Zacarias

New Member
Went on a bit of a hiatus but I figured I'd post an update if anyone's interested. I'm in week 7 of flower now and after a couple of flushes about a month ago she seems pretty happy. A lot of clawed leaves never came back but she seems to be thriving. I think it was mostly n tox combined with ph issues. My tap water phs around 7.5-8 and my soil is usually around the same. When i add nutes the water is usually around 4.5-5. So i started adding lemon juice to my tap water when I wasn't using nutes to balance out the high soil ph. I'm not sure if it helped in a big way, but my girl is looking good.

I also suspect that the fan I had going was too strong on some of the lower leaves and that was the cause of some of the clawing.
 

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Samsonator

Well-Known Member
Two different things going on here. First you have a little nitrogen toxicity. Second and most important potentially, your cupping is due to your lights being too close/intense. Both of these things could dramatically effect quality/quantity of bud.
 

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
at 1 foot probably a bit close. for those kind of lights. you may actually want to try more light for the area, but go for better distribution.
 
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