Climate in the 21st Century

cannabineer said:

global climate policy at risk from the collapse of multilateralism

Multilateralism is broken

The EU is doing little to prevent the tragic death of global governance.

www.politico.eu

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A unified global front might not be working out, but individual efforts by major global players are going ahead anyway and countries like India and China are included in that and should make cheap renewables available for poorer people and countries. Even a solar panel and a small battery bank can run LED lights at night and charge phones and cheap school tablets, which are replacing textbooks in many places. Things have to make economic sense for people to switch to greener ways and with cheap solar, cheap batteries are all that stands in the way of anybody living in the tropics or subtropics to have a range of systems from a basic one to provide lights and charge devices or run a TV, to larger ones like we will see here.

I think extreme weather events will drive the transition more than anything else other than cost/benefits. With increasing utility rates in many places and prices for systems dropping there will reach a point where it makes economic sense. In many undeveloped countries with no or little power infrastructure, it makes sense or will to start to with small community or individual solar and batteries. IMO poor people will need to generate enough power for their domestic needs including cooking, hot water and perhaps AC. In the tropics and sub tropics with more even days year-round and milder temps, this should not be a big issue or an expensive one with cheap stuff from India and China

cannabineer said:

Only thing better than blue crab is king crab.

Italy’s blue crab invasion: If you can’t beat ’em, eat ’em

The invasive species is now feasting on young clams and mussels, along with fish roe and other aquatic life, endangering the country’s culinary shellfish tradition.

www.politico.eu

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Every sizable body of water infested by Asian carp should have a cat food factory nearby and a small fishing industry based around it. Just drive up and down with a net boat making noise while giving high voltage shocks to the surrounding water and they will jump right in!

DIY-HP-LED said:

Every sizable body of water infested by Asian carp should have a cat food factory nearby and a small fishing industry based around it. Just drive up and down with a net boat making noise while giving high voltage shocks to the surrounding water and they will jump right in!

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Bad idea. It leads to cats.

cannabineer said:

Bad idea. It leads to cats.

View attachment 5334367

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When I was a teenager going to high school and later at the local college, I used to work as a stevedore loading and unloading the newfoundland costal ships at the local wharf. One particularly unpleasant commodity was fish meal shipped in 100 lb. bags, you could smell the boat coming before seeing it. Fishmeal is dehydrated and powdered fish scales, cartilage and guts and is a valued food additive feed stock apparently and back then a 100 lb of fishmeal was worth something to the food industry. Perhaps those Asian Carp could be turned into fishmeal at least.

Though with the price of food lately, you might be able to sell them for a tidy profit, they eat them in Asia, and they are farmed for that purpose there.

It might end up slamming into Nova Scotia before heading across the Atlantic, we could have palm trees here like they do in southern Ireland, NY and coastal Maine too. A subtropical climate on the east coast of Canada would make property values shoot through the roof and alter the local ecology. It would likely do the same to the northeastern US, if it keeps shifting and warming it will reach a point where the effects will be felt along with the general global warming and the further north the warmer it gets over time. A climate similar to the Carolinas or Virginia might be the result of a big enough shift and northern Nova Scotia has the same latitude as central France, the UK is about the same latitude as Labrador from south to north.

More on the humidity generator the seems to defy the laws of thermodynamics and I don't expect to generate any significant number of watts. Even if they could print out arrays of them on rolls of plastic and put hundreds of meters worth in a gizmo. Maybe I'm wrong but the energy has to come from somewhere, especially large amounts like 10kWh a day, that's over 400 watts an hour, or almost 7 watts a minute. In theory it should cool the air by 7 watts a minute in the high humidity room in which it was contained



Research Article
Generic Air-Gen Effect in Nanoporous Materials for Sustainable Energy Harvesting from Air Humidity

Abstract

Air humidity is a vast, sustainable reservoir of energy that, unlike solar and wind, is continuously available. However, previously described technologies for harvesting energy from air humidity are either not continuous or require unique material synthesis or processing, which has stymied scalability and broad deployment. Here, a generic effect for continuous energy harvesting from air humidity is reported, which can be applied to a broad range of inorganic, organic, and biological materials. The common feature of these materials is that they are engineered with appropriate nanopores to allow air water to pass through and undergo dynamic adsorption–desorption exchange at the porous interface, resulting in surface charging. The top exposed interface experiences this dynamic interaction more than the bottom sealed interface in a thin-film device structure, yielding a spontaneous and sustained charging gradient for continuous electric output. Analyses of material properties and electric outputs lead to a “leaky capacitor” model that can describe how electricity is harvested and predict current behaviors consistent with experiments. Predictions from the model guide the fabrication of devices made from heterogeneous junctions of different materials to further expand the device category. The work opens a wide door for the broad exploration of sustainable electricity from air.

DIY-HP-LED said:

More on the humidity generator the seems to defy the laws of thermodynamics and I don't expect to generate any significant number of watts. Even if they could print out arrays of them on rolls of plastic and put hundreds of meters worth in a gizmo. Maybe I'm wrong but the energy has to come from somewhere, especially large amounts like 10kWh a day, that's over 400 watts an hour, or almost 7 watts a minute.

Water vapour in air could power devices

Famed physicist Nikola Tesla wanted to obtain electricity from humidity in the air: decades after his death, the idea could finally be coming to fruition.

www.bbc.com

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.202300748

Research Article
Generic Air-Gen Effect in Nanoporous Materials for Sustainable Energy Harvesting from Air Humidity

Abstract

Air humidity is a vast, sustainable reservoir of energy that, unlike solar and wind, is continuously available. However, previously described technologies for harvesting energy from air humidity are either not continuous or require unique material synthesis or processing, which has stymied scalability and broad deployment. Here, a generic effect for continuous energy harvesting from air humidity is reported, which can be applied to a broad range of inorganic, organic, and biological materials. The common feature of these materials is that they are engineered with appropriate nanopores to allow air water to pass through and undergo dynamic adsorption–desorption exchange at the porous interface, resulting in surface charging. The top exposed interface experiences this dynamic interaction more than the bottom sealed interface in a thin-film device structure, yielding a spontaneous and sustained charging gradient for continuous electric output. Analyses of material properties and electric outputs lead to a “leaky capacitor” model that can describe how electricity is harvested and predict current behaviors consistent with experiments. Predictions from the model guide the fabrication of devices made from heterogeneous junctions of different materials to further expand the device category. The work opens a wide door for the broad exploration of sustainable electricity from air.

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I guess one real test of a small-scale unit would be to test for saturation effects. Water adsorption is often quite exergonic, and the desorption requires that energy be paid back. However, there might be an entropic effect that allows electricity to flow at a low rate, with statistical mechanics (think Maxwell’s demon) always dissipating the imbalance into the noise floor.

They should build one big enough to provide the power needed to light one LED, and see if it stays lit in a climate like Florida.

Though I expect it to be another holy grail denied, like thrust without mass expenditure.


(add) in a large, low-power-density device that breathes air, one also must look out for unexpected sources of power, such as convection or electrostatic effects. Or even the Seebeck effect.

For the sake of discussion, say they did develop a humidity generator that produced 10kWh of power a day and put it in your home battery bank. Now say you lived in a warm climate and used AC quite a bit, even a desert and your handy dandy generator was contained in a special room that regulated the temps and humidity and even had a carbon filter, essentially a grow tent! Now I'm not an expert, but I would expect this version of Maxwell's demon to cool the air by the same number of watts it extracts from the humidity, simple conservation of energy. So, if it cooled the air by 400 watts an hour your 3:1 efficiency heat pump AC should take care of any temperature drops in the room along with some thermal mass for night operation. Sounds like a fucking perpetual motion machine!

It is pretty close to Maxwell's demon or his cousin at least! It produces cool moist air and produces electricity. How come nature hasn't taken advantage of this free energy for life?

cannabineer said:

I guess one real test of a small-scale unit would be to test for saturation effects. Water adsorption is often quite exergonic, and the desorption requires that energy be paid back. However, there might be an entropic effect that allows electricity to flow at a low rate, with statistical mechanics (think Maxwell’s demon) always dissipating the imbalance into the noise floor.

They should build one big enough to provide the power needed to light one LED, and see if it stays lit in a climate like Florida.

Though I expect it to be another holy grail denied, like thrust without mass expenditure.

Reactionless drive - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

(add) in a large, low-power-density device that breathes air, one also must look out for unexpected sources of power, such as convection or electrostatic effects. Or even the Seebeck effect.

Click to expand...

It seems possible to "print" or laser punch sheets of material like mylar with say aluminum on one side and copper on the other and produce rolls of it like newsprint with millions or billions of perfect holes per centimeter. Maintain a slight pressure differential between the sides of the layered sheets while insulating them like battery plates and they should do their thing, get enough of them to work reliably and you have a generator, or so it would appear. I still think you will see a temperature drop equal to the power generated, proof of Maxwell's demon at work, or his cousin at least.

cannabineer said:

I guess one real test of a small-scale unit would be to test for saturation effects. Water adsorption is often quite exergonic, and the desorption requires that energy be paid back. However, there might be an entropic effect that allows electricity to flow at a low rate, with statistical mechanics (think Maxwell’s demon) always dissipating the imbalance into the noise floor.

They should build one big enough to provide the power needed to light one LED, and see if it stays lit in a climate like Florida.

Though I expect it to be another holy grail denied, like thrust without mass expenditure.

Reactionless drive - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

(add) in a large, low-power-density device that breathes air, one also must look out for unexpected sources of power, such as convection or electrostatic effects. Or even the Seebeck effect.

Click to expand...

What is the wavelength of the thermal drop? Is it converting infrared energy to electricity? Even acting as a quarter wave antenna, or half wave or even full wave antenna of sorts? An infrared rectenna might be one way of looking at this device. We know the rate of energy absorption and the air should come out cooler by an equal amount. What effect does varying the thickness of the substrate have?

20 degrees C is 293K

DIY-HP-LED said:

What is the wavelength of the thermal drop? Is it converting infrared energy to electricity? Even acting as a quarter wave antenna, or half wave or even full wave antenna of sorts? An infrared rectenna might be one way of looking at this device. We know the rate of energy absorption and the air should come out cooler by an equal amount. What effect does varying the thickness of the substrate have?

Click to expand...

since I don’t understand sentence 1, I cannot comment.

I will say that a rectenna model doesn’t really account for the role of water vapor.

(add) just saw the table. We are talking structures measured in nanometers against wavelengths of tens of microns.

Then again, we have working extra-low-frequency antenna tech for detecting sub-kilohertz em radiation (wavelengths in the hundreds to ten-thousands of km).

DIY-HP-LED said:

It seems possible to "print" or laser punch sheets of material like mylar with say aluminum on one side and copper on the other and produce rolls of it like newsprint with millions or billions of perfect holes per centimeter. Maintain a slight pressure differential between the sides of the layered sheets while insulating them like battery plates and they should do their thing, get enough of them to work reliably and you have a generator, or so it would appear. I still think you will see a temperature drop equal to the power generated, proof of Maxwell's demon at work, or his cousin at least.

Click to expand...

why use two different metals? If you use just one, you zero out spurious galvanic effects.

As for temperature drop … it might be below a critical noise floor, or it could be bought back by the heat of adsorption of the water.

Assuming that their finding that humidity drives the thing is correct!

While I think the chances are less than even that the effect survives more science, the chance that it might is exciting. If the effect can be reversed by applying power, I can imagine the tech leading to better recycling life support on spacecraft.

Nanoelectrochemistry (there’s German Scrabble for you!) might replace large, massive closed ecologies on usefully-sized space vessels and habitats.

cannabineer said:

since I don’t understand sentence 1, I cannot comment.

I will say that a rectenna model doesn’t really account for the role of water vapor.

Click to expand...

See above for the relationship of temperature to wavelength and water absorbs infrared and could be the secret sauce of its operation the hole diameters seem to also be a key and what fraction of a wavelength do they correspond too, say 25C produces the best results with a fractional drop in temperatures for the exiting air. It is not a difficult idea to test, and it puts it compliance with the laws of thermodynamics.

DIY-HP-LED said:

See above for the relationship of temperature to wavelength and water absorbs infrared and could be the secret sauce of its operation the hole diameters seem to also be a key and what fraction of a wavelength do they correspond too, say 25C produces the best results with a fractional drop in temperatures for the exiting air. It is not a difficult idea to test, and it puts it compliance with the laws of thermodynamics.

Click to expand...

yah just edited. From my chemistry days, water won’t absorb infrared much past about three microns. From there it’s onto other mechanisms (rotation) to explain microwave opacity.

cannabineer said:

why use two different metals? If you use just one, you zero out spurious galvanic effects.

As for temperature drop … it might be below a critical noise floor, or it could be bought back by the heat of adsorption of the water.

Assuming that their finding that humidity drives the thing is correct!

While I think the chances are less than even that the effect survives more science, the chance that it might is exciting. If the effect can be reversed by applying power, I can imagine the tech leading to better recycling life support on spacecraft.

Nanoelectrochemistry (there’s German Scrabble for you!) might replace large, massive closed ecologies on usefully-sized space vessels and habitats.

Click to expand...

I don't suppose there would be a need for dissimilar metals, just current collectors on either side of the optimal substrate of the optimal thickness. The temperature drop should not be a factor in its operation with air flow, but my main point is basic physics, where does the energy come from and infrared is the most likely source and Maxwell's demon could have been found in the hole sizes and the energy provided by 25C water vapor cooling slightly as it passed through the nano holes and transferring that heat into a charge differential on opposite sides of the substrate. Look at it like a solar panel with a band gap matching the thermal drop or a rectenna, or something in between.

cannabineer said:

yah just edited. From my chemistry days, water won’t absorb infrared much past about three microns. From there it’s onto other mechanisms (rotation) to explain microwave opacity.

Click to expand...

Yes, but how does it behave in a nano hole, it might just be a charge carrier, remember the hole size appears to be the critical factor in a variety of materials as antenna lengths are critical for proper reception at specific wavelengths.

In any case this is speculation and I'm sure many labs and eyeballs are on it if others spot potential, and they will get to the bottom of the phenomena and determine its potential utility. If something like this were possible and feasible it would be revolutionary, a washing machine sized gizmo that produced a steady 10kWh of power a day and dumped it into a battery. One thing is for certain though, it can't defy the laws of physics without making some new ones!

DIY-HP-LED said:

I don't suppose there would be a need for dissimilar metals, just current collectors on either side of the optimal substrate of the optimal thickness. The temperature drop should not be a factor in its operation with air flow, but my main point is basic physics, where does the energy come from and infrared is the most likely source and Maxwell's demon could have been found in the hole sizes and the energy provided by 25C water vapor cooling slightly as it passed through the nano holes and transferring that heat into a charge differential on opposite sides of the substrate. Look at it like a solar panel with a band gap matching the thermal drop or a rectenna, or something in between.

Click to expand...

DIY-HP-LED said:

Yes, but how does it behave in a nano hole, it might just be a charge carrier, remember the hole size appears to be the critical factor in a variety of materials as antenna lengths are critical for proper reception at specific wavelengths.

In any case this is speculation and I'm sure many labs and eyeballs are on it if others spot potential, and they will get to the bottom of the phenomena and determine its potential utility. If something like this were possible and feasible it would be revolutionary, a washing machine sized gizmo that produced a steady 10kWh of power a day and dumped it into a battery. One thing is for certain though, it can't defy the laws of physics without making some new ones!

Click to expand...

beats me! I’m already speculating well past my former pay grade.
At this point it’s watch&wait.

cannabineer said:

global climate policy at risk from the collapse of multilateralism

Multilateralism is broken

The EU is doing little to prevent the tragic death of global governance.

www.politico.eu

Click to expand...

Good the new world order can go fuck itself.

Sickofitall420247 said:

Good the new world order can go fuck itself.

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If it is such an issue, you should be able to define it and link to credible articles about it and what real problems it presents. Or is it a concept like the "deep state" or one of many other shadowy organizations nefariously determining the fate of man.

I'm afraid the new world order is much like the old one except on steroids, trade has been going on for thousands of years and people have been migrating for work for that long too, just transportation and communications have improved. Trade makes you rich, it's as simple as that and the first thing you do in war is cut the other side's trade off, cut them off from the global community like Russia and Iran are cut off. Anti globalism is just someone talking fools into fucking themselves for no reason, like Brexit. The Russians and the right spread the narrative so we will fuck ourselves, so the Russians don't need to bother. The right in America are the useful idiots of the Russians and it is rather obvious to anybody with a brain.