Closet SCOG

GrowinTheDank · Sep 22, 2012

I've never grown before. My closet's dimensions are 112"x22½"x93". For my first grow I'll only be using 60"x22½"x93" of the closet. However, after reading the thread linked below, I have been inspired to open up the other half of my closet for a SCOG on my next grow.

Inspiration: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/565050-g13-labs-pineapple-express-400w.html

Current Equipment:

So I have a few questions..

Am I able to run a nice SCOG OP with the room I've got to work with? I'm concerned about the width specifically.
What type of equipment upgrades would you recommend? Which are necessary?
What types/specific strains would you recommend for SCOG? I'm using Pure Power Plant for my first grow.
How many plants would be ideal for this space? Before answering this question, please take into consideration any strain recommendations/equipment upgrades you'd personally recommend. Or just assume I'm using the same equipment listed in the picture provided above.

Any other input is welcome!

Slipon · Sep 22, 2012

thats a lot of questions ..

but to answer one .. if your plan on make a complete grow using T5HOs .. scrog is ideal .. as you need to keep the plants/buds with in 2-4 inches from the bulbs for optimal light/bud grow .. after 10 inch`s the T5HO don't provide much light .. so try to keep the plants small and bushy and with a low and even canopy ..

and to try to answer another ..

if it was me I would do a scog or some kind of sea of green with T5HOs and with a 8 tube 4 foot fixture I would probably grow 4 plants .. small indices .. veg em for 3-4 weeks then put a screen over them and switch to 12/12 .. and use mostly 2700K bulbs maybe mix two 6500K in .. and visa virsa in Veg.

Slipon · Sep 22, 2012

and just to try to answer a tird

What type of equipment upgrades would you recommend? Which are necessary?

a ventilation and filter of some kind .. don't see any on your shopping list ?

sumthing like this:

guess you can do with a small 4 inch .. one of the good thing about T5HOs is they don't get that hot .. so ventilation is mostly for odor controle and most important .. to provide the plant with fresh air/co2

georgyboy · Sep 22, 2012

space wise I would recommend 3 plants in 7 gallon smart pots or 10 gallon or large plastic pots. Also, just to be technical, the grow method you are talking about is most commonly referred to as SCROG. I am currently growing some PPP and have kind of mainlined them and they have responded well so I think they will do well in the scrog too. It would be a good idea to get some bulbs in the blue spectrum also. You will have to veg for a while in a scrog.

FreeRangeZombie · Sep 22, 2012

I have never had a grow even close to that small before but seeing how other people did it and having grown with screen of green before I would just grow like 2-4 plants in that space and just tuck them through the screens as the grow so you cover the whole area then bloom just before the whole screen is filled as plants could stretch a lot once u start to bloom them . I like to leave as much space on the borders of my grow as i can for air circulation but in your setup I don't think that's possible. Maybe a mini grow expert will ***chime in *** . Good luck

GrowinTheDank · Sep 22, 2012

Slipon said:
thats a lot of questions ..

but to answer one .. if your plan on make a complete grow using T5HOs .. scrog is ideal .. as you need to keep the plants/buds with in 2-4 inches from the bulbs for optimal light/bud grow .. after 10 inch`s the T5HO don't provide much light .. so try to keep the plants small and bushy and with a low and even canopy ..

and to try to answer another ..

if it was me I would do a scog or some kind of sea of green with T5HOs and with a 8 tube 4 foot fixture I would probably grow 4 plants .. small indices .. veg em for 3-4 weeks then put a screen over them and switch to 12/12 .. and use mostly 2700K bulbs maybe mix two 6500K in .. and visa virsa in Veg.

Yeah I was planning on keeping my lights 4" above my plants. I was also going to LST my plants to keep them small and bushy

Slipon said:
and just to try to answer a tird

What type of equipment upgrades would you recommend? Which are necessary?

a ventilation and filter of some kind .. don't see any on your shopping list ?

sumthing like this:

View attachment 2345347

guess you can do with a small 4 inch .. one of the good thing about T5HOs is they don't get that hot .. so ventilation is mostly for odor controle and most important .. to provide the plant with fresh air/co2

Right now my ventilation is a 4" elbow pvc pipe on the non-grow side of my room traveling into the grow-side. I will have a 4" axial fan blowing from the non-grow to the grow-side through the pipe. My rooms temperature stays at around 75 degrees anyway. So I should be ok.

georgyboy said:
space wise I would recommend 3 plants in 7 gallon smart pots or 10 gallon or large plastic pots. Also, just to be technical, the grow method you are talking about is most commonly referred to as SCROG. I am currently growing some PPP and have kind of mainlined them and they have responded well so I think they will do well in the scrog too. It would be a good idea to get some bulbs in the blue spectrum also. You will have to veg for a while in a scrog.

Those are some big pots

I guess I got the acronym wrong lol. I don't want to grow PPP on my next grow. Well, actually a buddy just gave me some green crack and sour diesel seeds. Maybe I'll grow them then SCROG the PPP seeds :mrgreen:

How long do you think I will have to veg? And for my bulb spectrum during flowering I'll be doing something like this

B = Bloom Spectrum
G = Grow Spectrum

B B G B B G B B

FreeRangeZombie said:
I have never had a grow even close to that small before but seeing how other people did it and having grown with screen of green before I would just grow like 2-4 plants in that space and just tuck them through the screens as the grow so you cover the whole area then bloom just before the whole screen is filled as plants could stretch a lot once u start to bloom them . I like to leave as much space on the borders of my grow as i can for air circulation but in your setup I don't think that's possible. Maybe a mini grow expert will ***chime in *** . Good luck

I didn't think my space was that small :/ I was thinking 4 plants though. That seemed to be a good number. Hopefully a 'mini grow expert' comes this way lOl.

Slipon · Sep 23, 2012

nahh your space is`t that small .. almost 5x2 feet .. right ? and +6 feet in hight ?

about pots ..don't need that big .. really .. my fist grow .. I veg for +8 weeks I did end up with in 7 gallon pots .. but never agin .. to much work ..to hard to handle .. now I keep em in 5 gallon as finally pot (use 3 gallon in Veg)

14 days in to 12/12 .. you can see my 5 gallon pots standing on the 3 gallon Veg pots .. been in Veg for like 4 weeks (2 weeks seedlings)

about bulbs .. I was sure that bad boy fixture had Veg bulbs (6500K) in it from the start ..

try to mix em .. if it was me I would get 6 of each .. and run 2x2700K and rest 6500K in Veg and switch it to 2x6500K and rest 2700K in flowering ..

I have a 6 tube fixture for my veg. and I mix em up 2x2700K and 4x6500K

keep the plants with in 10-12 inch`s if possible .. top grow need to be with in 2-4 and when you get buds try to keep them all between 2 and 4 inch`s

T5HO dont provide much light/penetrations compared to HPS/MH light or the sun for that mather ..

my 600W HPS provide atlest 3-5x as much .. even at 20 inch`s away ..

good thing about T5HOs tho is that they dont produce much heat .. and do provide great par light (right spectrum for plants) and good Lumens .. just not much penetration so keep them plants low and the tubes close ..

also .. please tell me you have a carbon filter for your ventilation ?
if not get one/safe up .. they WILL begin to stink once they flower .. a lot ..

think about it .. hopefully +2 oz per plant .. plus leaf`s and steams aso. think about how much it would smell in dry form in a bag on your table ..

now think fresh green buds .. hopefully 6-10 OZ in your room all the time .. no bag ..

so unless you want to smell your plants going up your driveway I would use them 30-40$ on one before they begin to flower ..

and sure .. LST is great .. dont give the plant much stress compared to topping and FIM .. I like it ..

do it in Veg .. once the plants is getting it seccon or third true leave .. and you see small side shoots beginning .. then bend it down .. carefully .. tie it to the other side at the steam fist so you dont uproot it .. and use two strings .. one at the middle and one at the top to bend it in a nice not to sharp bend .. make it grow as many tops as possible you can spread out once you set the net up

sworth · Sep 23, 2012

Agreed Slipon...my tent is around 2ft x 6ft...Long and thin, bit like myself

GrowinTheDank · Sep 23, 2012

Slipon said:
nahh your space is`t that small .. almost 5x2 feet .. right ? and +6 feet in hight ?

about pots ..don't need that big .. really .. my fist grow .. I veg for +8 weeks I did end up with in 7 gallon pots .. but never agin .. to much work ..to hard to handle .. now I keep em in 5 gallon as finally pot (use 3 gallon in Veg)

View attachment 2346001 View attachment 2346002

14 days in to 12/12 .. you can see my 5 gallon pots standing on the 3 gallon Veg pots .. been in Veg for like 4 weeks (2 weeks seedlings)

about bulbs .. I was sure that bad boy fixture had Veg bulbs (6500K) in it from the start ..

try to mix em .. if it was me I would get 6 of each .. and run 2x2700K and rest 6500K in Veg and switch it to 2x6500K and rest 2700K in flowering ..

I have a 6 tube fixture for my veg. and I mix em up 2x2700K and 4x6500K

View attachment 2346010 View attachment 2346011

keep the plants with in 10-12 inch`s if possible .. top grow need to be with in 2-4 and when you get buds try to keep them all between 2 and 4 inch`s

T5HO dont provide much light/penetrations compared to HPS/MH light or the sun for that mather ..

View attachment 2346025 View attachment 2346027

my 600W HPS provide atlest 3-5x as much .. even at 20 inch`s away ..

View attachment 2346035 View attachment 2346036

good thing about T5HOs tho is that they dont produce much heat .. and do provide great par light (right spectrum for plants) and good Lumens .. just not much penetration so keep them plants low and the tubes close ..

also .. please tell me you have a carbon filter for your ventilation ?
if not get one/safe up .. they WILL begin to stink once they flower .. a lot ..

think about it .. hopefully +2 oz per plant .. plus leaf`s and steams aso. think about how much it would smell in dry form in a bag on your table ..

now think fresh green buds .. hopefully 6-10 OZ in your room all the time .. no bag ..

so unless you want to smell your plants going up your driveway I would use them 30-40$ on one before they begin to flower ..

and sure .. LST is great .. dont give the plant much stress compared to topping and FIM .. I like it ..

do it in Veg .. once the plants is getting it seccon or third true leave .. and you see small side shoots beginning .. then bend it down .. carefully .. tie it to the other side at the steam fist so you dont uproot it .. and use two strings .. one at the middle and one at the top to bend it in a nice not to sharp bend .. make it grow as many tops as possible you can spread out once you set the net up

View attachment 2346037 View attachment 2346038 View attachment 2346039 View attachment 2346040

Thank-you for writing out such a quality post! Pictures and all. This is a great community, and posts like your's are excellent examples of why this community is so great. Rep+

I've been wondering how long I'm supposed to veg for. I suppose the time to switch to 12/12 is heavily dependent on the size of your plants, and how much space you have? What was hard about managing a 7 gallon smart pot? I'm curious about what I may be up against someday

I do plan on mixing the bulbs. I wasn't going to mix them in veg though. Should I? If so, what combination do you recommend? For flowering I'll be doing this:

B = Bloom Spectrum
G = Grow Spectrum

B B G B B G B B

That sun analyzer is awesome! I didn't even know they existed. Too bad all it's doing for me right now is proving how shitty my light is lmao.

I really don't have a proper ventilation system.. I was told it is not necessary at this point in time. I really like the picture of that kit you posted though. If anyone could link me to a setup like that they'd recommend, then that would be great. Is the smell really that bad though? I don't mind if my room smells dankidy dank, but the drive way? That could raise a few issues..lOl

Can you go into more depth about LST? Maybe a picture of a side shoot beginning, or a diagram of how to LST. Something like that would be extremely helpful. Most people are somewhat vague when teaching LST methods :/

Again, thank-you so much for the quality post!

Slipon · Sep 23, 2012

no problem .. like to help fellow growers and I do remember how confusing it all where at the beginning of my indoor growing career even tho I had a few outdoor grows from way back (when I had a garden in the middle of nowhere)

a plant will need all kind of light all grow .. just more blue spectrum (+6000K) in the early stages .. remember what we try to do is to copy nature indoors .. at it optimal conditions .. as we cant grow outdoors for one or the other reason ..

sun stands high on the sky early at spring .. so our atmosphere let more blue light in .. plant have adapted ..

later on in summer/early fall the sun stand low on the sky .. so it let more red/yellow light in .. and the plant will begin to flower ..

so in short .. yes I would mix em .. if I had em anyway .. like your diagram .. mix 2x 2700K bulbs in there in Veg .. do the same in flowering .. just visa versa

and yea a long Veg time will give you huge plants .. who will demand hugh pots for its root net as weed grow massive roots and don't like to be root bound ..

if you veg like me for +8 weeks .. with 2 weeks as seedlings fist you end up with plants that is hard to handle for one person .. specially in a small place .. what I meant ..

I rather grow a plant or two more at the cost of a seed and get the same/more yield in a shorter time ..

one of the good things about indoor growing is that you decide and control the grow .. some even go 12/12 from seed .. dunno .. have`t really been looking in to that yet ..

I like to give em about 4 weeks .. thats about the time it take em to outgrow a 3 gallon pot ..
then I repot in to 5 gallon and give em a week to adapt then start 12/12 (I do turn it down 1/2 a hour a day from 18 to 12)

the sun analyzer is cool .. not totally accurate I know .. but give you a idea of what different distance changes

View attachment 2346178

and what different light provide ..

got it for free when I used +300$ at my local hydro store last time ..

and yes the smell will be bad .. trust me .. maybe not the drive way bad .. need to make a point ..

but you do hear stories about Ppl. witch neighbors could smell it .. and when I fist started and did`t believe it myself .. like you .. I did`t mind a little smell .. well its NOT a little .. I had problems sleeping in my apartment .. 2 hours after I did fit the filter all smell was gone and I could sleep agin ..

about LST .. around this size I begin ..

I use a string close to the soil .. to secure the main steam in the other direction then I plan to bend it ..

sorry for the pics .. some old one I had .. but notice I used two string then to bend it down .. to make the bend soft so to speak .. use loose loops and soft string .. and if your scared it will snap .. do it over a few days ..

here are some from the next few weeks ..

and just before 12/12

Slipon · Sep 23, 2012

p.s.

remember .. the time a plant grow most .. is in them fist two weeks of 12/12 ... also called the stretch .. and when/why Ppl. put a net over them .. it is also a time where you want to have some room in the pots for it to grow and not stall its potential and you don't want to repot if you can avoid it doing 12/12

its also a time where it needs the most nutrients/Nitrogen .. keep that in mind ..

Slipon · Sep 23, 2012

not mine .. but nice setup and I believe that is two 8 bulbs bad boys fixtures they use .. hope they got some 600W/1000W HPS for flowering them 3 feet plants ..

stoneslacker · Sep 23, 2012

I have only a couple grows of experience but in a small space like mine (32"w x 36"h x 23"d) I like to use a sCROG to maximize my light coverage. I use a 250w mh for veg and hps for flower. With 4in inline fan, carbon filtration and plenty of air movement I am able to keep the light 4-6 inches from the canopy top.

A sCROG grow is similar in concept to any type of LST or supercropping technique. Just different ways to achieve the same result, keep the apex tip low and allow the lower side branches to reach an even height all the way around. I place my screen 7-10 inches above my pots and let the plant grow up to the screen then push the tips back down under the screen and over to the sides. This allows the lower branches and the small growth tips on the branch arms to explode in growth and push upwards to the canopy top.

After 2-3 weeks of training and couple weeks of flower stretch, continue to train branches to empty areas in your canopy, and you should end up with a fairly even canopy top with great light penetration to most of the canopy. The tips on the sides can be higher than the canopy middle and this will help to compensate for the spread of your hood.
View attachment 2346251 View attachment 2346252 View attachment 2346253 View attachment 2346254

GrowinTheDank · Sep 23, 2012

Slipon said:
no problem .. like to help fellow growers and I do remember how confusing it all where at the beginning of my indoor growing career even tho I had a few outdoor grows from way back (when I had a garden in the middle of nowhere)

a plant will need all kind of light all grow .. just more blue spectrum (+6000K) in the early stages .. remember what we try to do is to copy nature indoors .. at it optimal conditions .. as we cant grow outdoors for one or the other reason ..

sun stands high on the sky early at spring .. so our atmosphere let more blue light in .. plant have adapted ..

later on in summer/early fall the sun stand low on the sky .. so it let more red/yellow light in .. and the plant will begin to flower ..

so in short .. yes I would mix em .. if I had em anyway .. like your diagram .. mix 2x 2700K bulbs in there in Veg .. do the same in flowering .. just visa versa

and yea a long Veg time will give you huge plants .. who will demand hugh pots for its root net as weed grow massive roots and don't like to be root bound ..

if you veg like me for +8 weeks .. with 2 weeks as seedlings fist you end up with plants that is hard to handle for one person .. specially in a small place .. what I meant ..

I rather grow a plant or two more at the cost of a seed and get the same/more yield in a shorter time ..

one of the good things about indoor growing is that you decide and control the grow .. some even go 12/12 from seed .. dunno .. have`t really been looking in to that yet ..

I like to give em about 4 weeks .. thats about the time it take em to outgrow a 3 gallon pot ..
then I repot in to 5 gallon and give em a week to adapt then start 12/12 (I do turn it down 1/2 a hour a day from 18 to 12)

the sun analyzer is cool .. not totally accurate I know .. but give you a idea of what different distance changes

View attachment 2346178

and what different light provide ..

got it for free when I used +300$ at my local hydro store last time ..

and yes the smell will be bad .. trust me .. maybe not the drive way bad .. need to make a point ..

but you do hear stories about Ppl. witch neighbors could smell it .. and when I fist started and did`t believe it myself .. like you .. I did`t mind a little smell .. well its NOT a little .. I had problems sleeping in my apartment .. 2 hours after I did fit the filter all smell was gone and I could sleep agin ..

about LST .. around this size I begin ..

View attachment 2346181

I use a string close to the soil .. to secure the main steam in the other direction then I plan to bend it ..

View attachment 2346183

sorry for the pics .. some old one I had .. but notice I used two string then to bend it down .. to make the bend soft so to speak .. use loose loops and soft string .. and if your scared it will snap .. do it over a few days ..

here are some from the next few weeks ..

View attachment 2346187 View attachment 2346188

and just before 12/12

View attachment 2346189

Hmm ok I will mix the bulbs in veg just like I've been planning on doing for flower.

What if I'm planning on finishing in 3 gallon pots? What's an optimal veg time? Or should I purchase some 5 gallon pots?

Thank you so much for going in-depth with LST. Most helpful post about it I've read here so far.

I can't wait to start my first grow!! I've got everything besides the rope ratchets. They should be here in a day or two :mrgreen:

Off to build my room now. Will post pics when finished. :leaf:

GrowinTheDank · Sep 23, 2012

stoneslacker said:
I have only a couple grows of experience but in a small space like mine (32"w x 36"h x 23"d) I like to use a sCROG to maximize my light coverage. I use a 250w mh for veg and hps for flower. With 4in inline fan, carbon filtration and plenty of air movement I am able to keep the light 4-6 inches from the canopy top.

A sCROG grow is similar in concept to any type of LST or supercropping technique. Just different ways to achieve the same result, keep the apex tip low and allow the lower side branches to reach an even height all the way around. I place my screen 7-10 inches above my pots and let the plant grow up to the screen then push the tips back down under the screen and over to the sides. This allows the lower branches and the small growth tips on the branch arms to explode in growth and push upwards to the canopy top.
View attachment 2346247 View attachment 2346248 View attachment 2346249 View attachment 2346250

After 2-3 weeks of training and couple weeks of flower stretch, continue to train branches to empty areas in your canopy, and you should end up with a fairly even canopy top with great light penetration to most of the canopy. The tips on the sides can be higher than the canopy middle and this will help to compensate for the spread of your hood.
View attachment 2346251 View attachment 2346252 View attachment 2346253 View attachment 2346254

Yeah I'm thinking about following the tutorial linked below for my SCROG.

http://howtogrowmarijuana.com/screen-of-green

GrowinTheDank · Sep 24, 2012

Would Pure Power Plant be a good strain for SCROG?

stoneslacker · Sep 24, 2012

GrowinTheDank said:
Would Pure Power Plant be a good strain for SCROG?

Any indica dominant strain is a good candidate for sCROG. Sativas may need more attention and you would definitely want to flip to flower sooner than you would on an indica.

PPP throws out fat, solid kolas which would make it a very good candidate for a scrog. Any strain can be grown successfully in a scrog. Basically the only real requirement for scrog growing is your effort in training the canopy under the screen. As the plant grows during veg and hits the screen you will see the "bare" areas in your screen surface to direct new growth into. Flip photo period when the screen is about 60% full give or take depending on strain stretch during flower. Continue to train tips and even out light coverage to the canopy during the 1st couple weeks of flower.

At this point about 8-12 days into flower your canopy will be close to its finished shape. The height will continue 4-8 inches as buds fill and stretch. During the time about day 8 I start to thin out the undergrowth that is not getting light. Don't be shy here, anything that is not over the screen will just wither and die possibly causing problems with mold and what not. At about 20 days everything is done stretching and its easy street from here on out.

GrowinTheDank · Sep 24, 2012

stoneslacker said:
Any indica dominant strain is a good candidate for sCROG. Sativas may need more attention and you would definitely want to flip to flower sooner than you would on an indica.

PPP throws out fat, solid kolas which would make it a very good candidate for a scrog. Any strain can be grown successfully in a scrog. Basically the only real requirement for scrog growing is your effort in training the canopy under the screen. As the plant grows during veg and hits the screen you will see the "bare" areas in your screen surface to direct new growth into. Flip photo period when the screen is about 60% full give or take depending on strain stretch during flower. Continue to train tips and even out light coverage to the canopy during the 1st couple weeks of flower.

At this point about 8-12 days into flower your canopy will be close to its finished shape. The height will continue 4-8 inches as buds fill and stretch. During the time about day 8 I start to thin out the undergrowth that is not getting light. Don't be shy here, anything that is not over the screen will just wither and die possibly causing problems with mold and what not. At about 20 days everything is done stretching and its easy street from here on out.

I'm not much of a fan for Indicas :/ It's good to hear PPP is good for SCROG.

I ordered 5 PPP seeds. My friend gave me 1 White Widow, 1 Sour Diesel, and 1 Green Crack seed. I don't think they're feminized. I'm thinking about planting the 3 seeds he gave me for my first grow. I figure I may get lucky and have all females. If I do get a male I will make an attempt at seeding him. If they're all males..I'm going to be sad, lOl.

I know it's best to keep 1 strain per SCROG. To keep everything even, etc. So I might save those PPP's for the SCROG. Watcha' think?

stoneslacker · Sep 25, 2012

GrowinTheDank said:
I'm not much of a fan for Indicas :/ It's good to hear PPP is good for SCROG.

I ordered 5 PPP seeds. My friend gave me 1 White Widow, 1 Sour Diesel, and 1 Green Crack seed. I don't think they're feminized. I'm thinking about planting the 3 seeds he gave me for my first grow. I figure I may get lucky and have all females. If I do get a male I will make an attempt at seeding him. If they're all males..I'm going to be sad, lOl.

I know it's best to keep 1 strain per SCROG. To keep everything even, etc. So I might save those PPP's for the SCROG. Watcha' think?

I will say scrog works best with clones or fem seeds as trying to remove males entwined in your screens is a pain. If using reg seeds you should flower a small cutting first and sex plants.

sworth · Sep 25, 2012

I LST mine during veg, then under a screen for flowering.....

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