Colchicine doubling the chromosomes in Cannabis Plants

take a look thru the noob growers many are still paying rippoff prices for 'mutated' plants

question is ...how are they mutates again

go figure

vostok said:

how are they mutates again

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I beg your pardon?

Why would you want to use it on cannabis?

Colchicine is a toxic chemical that is often used to induce polyploidy in plants.


It stays around in future generations as well.

CONCLUSIONS:
Because the consequences of colchicine application are still apparent in the second generation of the plants, at least the third-generation polyploids should be considered in future comparisons.

RangiSTaxi said:

Id be interested in anyone else with experience in this, or those who which like to dig deep the internet to obtain more information.

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Allright so this is the picture of a fan-leave of a tetra-ploidic cannabis plant, which had around arithm. 30% larger fanleaves than its clone-type controlgroup.

The study didnt find an increase in harvest. Reason was suggested as relatively less root mass...

Im in bed tomorrow I try to find the study at the desktop. But they are free out there, its impressive how scientists try to manipulate plants, for good.

Polyploidity is not a genetic mutation but a chromosomal aberration. A chromosome is a "sheet" where the genetic helix is pinned onto.

Cholchizin is very dangerous for humans, and there are substances which can induce polyploidity much more successful.

edit: hmm I just wonder if this is the right pic....

RangiSTaxi said:

Colchicine is an mutagen that works by preventing the microtubules formation and doubles the number of chromosomes. It is commonly used to develop polyploid plants and functions as a mitotic poison by producing many mutagenic effects on plants.

Part of my horticultural studies going back more than 20 years now involved using a Grout Treatment called Colchicine on seeds to Double the chromosomes of the seeds, prior to planting, we crushed the tablets, mixed with water and soaked the seeds in what I believe was Colchicine until they sprouted, then planted as normal.

We at the time used Radish seeds and big moon pumpkins as our subject plants, under test controls these grew twice the size and twice as fast as our regular control seeds.

Id be interested in anyone else with experience in this, or those who which like to dig deep the internet to obtain more information.

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Meant to say Gout Treatment as in medication tablets rather than Grout Treatment in first post lol. sorry typo.

Its pretty safe to use and handle in that form actually.


Its medication you can take orally. For Gout and readily prescribed.
Handling it with gloves shouldn't be a problem as you can ingest the stuff, ofcourse we didn't use gloves 20 years ago, which is probably why im so fucked up.... lol jokes.

Basically we crushed these Tablets into a fine powder , mixed with water and soaked the seeds in it for 24 hours prior to germination.

At the Time I was told this was how all the Guinness World Records for the Largest Pumpkins and Veges were made.

As I figured no one here would know about this I thought I would just share.

RangiSTaxi said:

Colchicine is an mutagen that works by preventing the microtubules formation and doubles the number of chromosomes. It is commonly used to develop polyploid plants and functions as a mitotic poison by producing many mutagenic effects on plants.

Part of my horticultural studies going back more than 20 years now involved using a Grout Treatment called Colchicine on seeds to Double the chromosomes of the seeds, prior to planting, we crushed the tablets, mixed with water and soaked the seeds in what I believe was Colchicine until they sprouted, then planted as normal.

We at the time used Radish seeds and big moon pumpkins as our subject plants, under test controls these grew twice the size and twice as fast as our regular control seeds.

Id be interested in anyone else with experience in this, or those who which like to dig deep the internet to obtain more information.

Click to expand...

I remember a book by Mel Thomas that mentioned using crocus bulbs as a source of colchicine. Do not know if later editions still contain any general info. (European Cannabis Cultivation. Had tidbits, I liked the ping pong ball tumbler idea. Not worth buying now.)

Search colchicine crocus cannabis.

Fasciation

Over the many years I worked with plants Ive seen many of these happen in nature across many plants, the horticulture term as per my training is we call these a sport.


often cuttings or clones are taken from naturally occurring sports and go on to become new varieties.


here is one that me and my fellow nurserymen found when one of my staff was going for a pee in the bush, stumbled upon this, at that time I was running a wholesale native plant nursery as production manager , its usually solid green leafed, but one single stem was varigated green and yellow, , we took a cutting from that plant, and a new plant variety was formed, it was a best seller. we called it wee willie winkie. and is now PVR and has royalty rights on it. lol



https://www.reddit.com/r/trees/comments/e08n1e Fasciation is the horticulture term for that bud, and is common in many plants, fasciation is a type of Sport
That would make for some freaky bag appeal

ok I've found that study, turns out that pic I've posted above is not from it... so it may not be related after all.... I think even got it from here lol...

anyway, here's the study:
(hope this links works...)

where in it, you can actually see the difference between a polyploidic fanleave and a normal one from the same genotype/chemotype.

I wonder if maybe the artifical indoor lighting and/or rootboundness had a limiting influence on a plant with 30% larger leaves.

Anyway there are some more studies and it seems like some of these are merely done as preparation studies, to find the right values and do adjustments for future studies.

Polyploidity is quite common in nature so we mustn't regard that as a mutation or mosterplant of any kind, it just is that the DNA gets more copies inside of each cell, so the nucleus has a greater influential sphere and can code pre-RNA or enzymes faster.

One bacteria - ep. fishelsoni - has a 200.000-fold chromosome set and is 0.7mm large - one of the 2 bacterias wich can be seen with the human eye.

Cannabis isnt a pumpkin, polyploidy might work for a giant pumpkin or even hemp but where has anyone proved that in cannabis and why arent we seeing thirty years of it breeding larger buds if it is so prevelant?

I'm having fun growing out two mutant autoflowers, neither will yield the most in the bunch, but one is furthest along of all the sisters, and the classically whorled phyllotaxy is a little smaller than her sisters, not much, but has a crapload of small nugs with very nice stacking formation.

Being a male to female cross between divergent strains each of the 6 sisters is somewhat unique, apart from 1 starting to flower a little later and growing a little bigger, I removed her from the tent and she is growing outdoors in the winter sun now.

Can't believe my tent is about a month away from done and I started those seeds at the start of lockdown. I will be breeding some of the flowers back with the father's pollen too. These seeds are making good gifts and bartering material at the moment, probably got like 10g of weed so far for a few beans.

2Hearts said:

Cannabis isnt a pumpkin, polyploidy might work for a giant pumpkin or even hemp but where has anyone proved that in cannabis and why arent we seeing thirty years of it breeding larger buds if it is so prevelant?

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actually the bud above isn't polyploidity but something else, so that's why.. I actually have a plant running that shows the same symptoms (albeit in veg) so I hope I get something like this in 3 months, let'S see

it's proven beyond any doubt, here are studies
all plants showing 2 cotyledons can treated by colchizin, these plants make out a taxon and have alot of similarities

In relation to the op and giant pumkins i see zero evidence cannabis can use ploidy in any way shape or form to create a new variety of genetically enhanced bud like pumpkin growers do.

Whatever the argument no person has ever produced peer reviewed citations but jump a species to hemp and yes they have ploidy strains galore and the peer reviewed acceptance of it.

Great discussion but proof would be a simple breeding scheme away as with the giant pumpkin and not endless debate discussion and what ifs without a plentifull end product we could all own buy and yeild way more of.

Kassiopeija said:

actually the bud above isn't polyploidity but something else, so that's why.. I actually have a plant running that shows the same symptoms (albeit in veg) so I hope I get something like this in 3 months, let'S see

it's proven beyond any doubt, here are studies

Google Scholar

scholar.google.de

all plants showing 2 cotyledons can treated by colchizin, these plants make out a taxon and have alot of similarities

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2Hearts said:

In relation to the op and giant pumkins i see zero evidence cannabis can use ploidy in any way shape or form to create a new variety of genetically enhanced bud like pumpkin growers do.

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I see zero claims in the OP to do so... he's informing of a special seed stain procedure - which can make your seeds polyploidic. You just need to buy that stuff up or draw from the plants themselves.

The proof of increased growth is already there, albeit not harvest. But scientists are not stupid - they understand how biology works and therefore they are conducting these studies in this field in the first place. If it would be impossible they could rule it out in advance.

The bonus is already there - in form of an increased DNA influence zone.
And how that later translates on a grander scale is up for them to find out in details, but what they found so far is:
- seedlings may die
- some regions where there is increased growth
- some regions where its equal

so they simply don't know if it's actually beneficial or even applicable to use, ie: worth your time.

RangiSTaxi said:

Fasciation

Creating Polyploid plants using Colchicine derived from Autumn Crocus seeds/plants | Dude Grows Show

www.dudegrows.com

Over the many years I worked with plants Ive seen many of these happen in nature across many plants, the horticulture term as per my training is we call these a sport.

Sport (botany) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

often cuttings or clones are taken from naturally occurring sports and go on to become new varieties.


here is one that me and my fellow nurserymen found when one of my staff was going for a pee in the bush, stumbled upon this, at that time I was running a wholesale native plant nursery as production manager , its usually solid green leafed, but one single stem was varigated green and yellow, , we took a cutting from that plant, and a new plant variety was formed, it was a best seller. we called it wee willie winkie. and is now PVR and has royalty rights on it. lol


View attachment 4562059
https://www.reddit.com/r/trees/comments/e08n1e Fasciation is the horticulture term for that bud, and is common in many plants, fasciation is a type of Sport
That would make for some freaky bag appeal

Fasciation - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

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Ive had Fascination occur naturally in cannabis a few times over the years , they are very interesting to see, but are not really commercially useful as there is a lot of wide stem in the bud, I've probably seen it naturally occur in about 30 different plant species over the years. anyway it's all very interesting when you come across a plant sport.

I saw the "toxic chemical" response and the chemical name and just went and checked and I've been taking this toxic chemical orally for over 15 years.

I can still count all the way to twenty if someone helps with them tricky teens(why they all gotta rhyme?!) and if my counting is right, the same number of fingers and toes as I started with.

If it causes polyploids in the garden though, I'll keep it away from the girls. I've had a few plants with that issue and they were mostly a waste of space.

You make the same mistakes the op does, where does ploidy mean more growth or bigger structures - thats a simple persons veiw just because it happened in a few species they relate it to all.

People studied and did everything for years now, how are you making breakthroughs many more educated people groups and labs never could.

I referenced in another thread that your trying to convince me that its easy to genetically breed an all red stemmed and leafed only able to herm super ploid - laughable.

Kassiopeija said:

I see zero claims in the OP to do so... he's informing of a special seed stain procedure - which can make your seeds polyploidic. You just need to buy that stuff up or draw from the plants themselves.

The proof of increased growth is already there, albeit not harvest. But scientists are not stupid - they understand how biology works and therefore they are conducting these studies in this field in the first place. If it would be impossible they could rule it out in advance.

The bonus is already there - in form of an increased DNA influence zone.
And how that later translates on a grander scale is up for them to find out in details, but what they found so far is:
- seedlings may die
- some regions where there is increased growth
- some regions where its equal

so they simply don't know if it's actually beneficial or even applicable to use, ie: worth your time.

Click to expand...

2Hearts said:

where does ploidy mean more growth or bigger structures

Click to expand...

I linked the study where the fanleaves are significantly larger.

2Hearts said:

I referenced in another thread that your trying to convince me that its easy to genetically breed an all red stemmed and leafed only able to herm super ploid - laughable.

Click to expand...

I did nothing of that sort, and esp. not "genetically" as I've said before its a chromosal aberration
and if you do so you can use someones name like @2Hearts and then that person can also read this... but all you do is putting words in others people mouths which they never voiced, so I'm really not interested...