Compost Tea Bubblers: do they actually help? + Large bubbles vs small bubbles?

RenaissanceBrah said:

What about brewing compost tea with worm castings?

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Yep. I do that, and sometimes mix compost and ewc. Depends on what I'm trying to do.

RenaissanceBrah said:

Thanks Richard for your feedback - I was thinking of going with an airlifter, think that would be a good solution to aerate the tea, vs a airstone?

Also, what are your thoughts on compost extracts vs aerated compost teas? Some say extracts are better, but I am still researching on the subject.

Btw, if your worm bin is too muddy, have you thought about feeding peat to your worms, and to use as a bedding? That's what I do, I found it works quite well, gives the castings a good consistency and the worms like it.

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Airlifters look like a good option if you plan to do a high volume of tea on the regular; like for an entire crop outdoors or something like that. For most home hobby growers a simple bucket and aerator is sufficient.
I use recycled soil and straw for bedding; never tried adding peat to the worm bins but heavy mucky ewc was never much of a problem either. Honestly don’t know much about compost extracts but I do have a friend who uses liquid em-1 in his teas. Guy doesn’t have a worm bin; plants seem healthy regardless so guess that’s another way to do this…find whatever works best for you.

Django66 said:

Does anyone try growing side by side plants with and without teas?
If not, how do we know if tea does anything?
Agitating the water will actually kill fungal microbes. Does not grow microbes. Test it before and after. You will not increase the nutrients you put in the bucket by aerating it.
Try an experiment and then share your knowledge.

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Yes I have. I started off using no teas or added composts because I had no clue what I was doing. Like Reap is saying teas are needed more when starting off with a fresh soil mix. It gets better the more you recycle it; improves with age. Teas can help inoculate your mix with populations microbes or fungal mycorrhizae and there are many different types of recipes to achieve whatever your end goal is. Of course you don’t increase nutrient levels when you brew a tea but that’s not really the point. Research and then provide commentary.

xtsho said:

I have never noticed any difference using it vs not using it in container plants. I have noticed a difference in the vegetable garden though and since it's so easy to make I apply it prior to planting and then several times throughout the growing season.

JMS is JADAM which was started by Youngsang Cho who is the son of Hankyu Cho considered the father of KNF. JADAM is simpler and you don't use brown sugar to make the inputs.

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You dilute it 1-20 so I make a 5 gallons and then split it up between a bunch of other buckets and spread it the garden plots.

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Seems like a lot of salt.

Richard Drysift said:

Airlifters look like a good option if you plan to do a high volume of tea on the regular; like for an entire crop outdoors or something like that. For most home hobby growers a simple bucket and aerator is sufficient.
I use recycled soil and straw for bedding; never tried adding peat to the worm bins but heavy mucky ewc was never much of a problem either. Honestly don’t know much about compost extracts but I do have a friend who uses liquid em-1 in his teas. Guy doesn’t have a worm bin; plants seem healthy regardless so guess that’s another way to do this…find whatever works best for you.

Yes I have. I started off using no teas or added composts because I had no clue what I was doing. Like Reap is saying teas are needed more when starting off with a fresh soil mix. It gets better the more you recycle it; improves with age. Teas can help inoculate your mix with populations microbes or fungal mycorrhizae and there are many different types of recipes to achieve whatever your end goal is. Of course you don’t increase nutrient levels when you brew a tea but that’s not really the point. Research and then provide commentary.

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Researched and tested on several different plants. No difference in my case. My soil may be good enough on its own. I tried EWC tea on half of my tomato plant and it made no difference. I know several Master gardeners who never waste time on teas. not my thing. Do what you think works for you. I don't think it will harm your plants unless you create some anaerobic bacteria.

Ok, It's on! Give me your favorite tea formula and I'll test it. I have two seedlings of the same cultivar planted in the same soil and under all the same growing conditions. One plant will be watered with my well water and the other will be watered with a compost tea. The plants will be compared as far as health, biomass and over all yeild. Fair enough? Worm castings and molasses? Or compost? They won't need water for at least a day or two so I'll start brewing tea when you give me a formula.

Django66 said:

Ok, It's on! Give me your favorite tea formula and I'll test it. I have two seedlings of the same cultivar planted in the same soil and under all the same growing conditions. One plant will be watered with my well water and the other will be watered with a compost tea. The plants will be compared as far as health, biomass and over all yeild. Fair enough? Worm castings and molasses? Or compost? They won't need water for at least a day or two so I'll start brewing tea when you give me a formula.View attachment 5247838

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These look like they are from seed. May not be the best baseline.

GenericEnigma said:

These look like they are from seed. May not be the best baseline.

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agreed

Hard to say whether smaller or larger bubbles are better, they both provide oxygen for teas. For those that like to do teas, I've always recommended larger stones because they're easier to clean and don't clog as easily.

That said, I believe that if one needs to brew a tea with compost then the compost being used wasn't up to snuff in the first place. The oxygen from brewing does in fact speed things up. However, if one needs to brew a tea with their compost then they likely aren't turning their compost often enough or the compost hasn't fully decomposed to begin with, hence the need to "oxygenate" it to speed up the process. This is very common with compost procured from a store, which often has not been fully decomposed.

A quality compost doesn't need to be turned into a tea to do its job. If it does, there is typically something lacking in the compost itself.

The issue with teas is that they don't last as long as top dressing with quality compost does. A quality compost only needs to be applied as a top dress every month or so, where as an AACT needs to be brewed once or twice a week to achieve the same result. An AACT can be a good temporary solution while one figures out a way to get their compost up to snuff, but the end goal should be to have quality compost that doesn't require "brewing" to make it good in the first place.

The compost itself is the source of life via the microbes within it. If you're creating a tea from compost, you aren't solving the ultimate problem, which is the fact your compost isn't fully decomposed/ready yet. Sure, it does provide a boost, and will show results. However, you have to brew teas weekly to achieve the same results as someone that simply top dresses with compost once or twice a month.

If one is brewing teas, that means that the soil/compost does not have the necessary means to sustain microbe life by itself, so "teas" are only a band-aid that doesn't solve the actual problem within the soil/compost itself.

For someone that can't make their own compost or needs to make a tiny bit of compost/EWC go a long way, an AACT can definitely be a blessing. But after a while, it becomes more of a chore than it's worth. A quality pile of homemade compost/EWC will do far more than all the products from websites such as BuildASoil and the like.

When in doubt, default to how things are done in nature, specifically a forest as a self-sustaining closed loop system. In the forests, there is no one applying aerated compost teas to keep things going. The soil in the forest is teeming with life, sustained all by itself in a closed loop system without any help from outside sources. The ultimate no-till. Everything is recycled and has a purpose. The Redwood Forest and Sequoia Forest don't have park rangers brewing compost teas to sustain it, it is a closed loop system that we should all study in the hopes of replicating it as affordably and efficiently as possible.

Not trying to sound like a hipster, nor be a buzzkill. The fact is our goal as growers should be to buy less and less products over time to keep things going. Only purchasing what is necessary to cultivate a closed loop system that can sustain itself, so we don't have to worry about what will happen if we can't procure things from Amazon or BuildASoil.

All the best.

I normally use a compost tea, after top dressing, to ramp up microbial life. Even if the compost/ewc is quality, boosting microbial populations to start breaking down that top dress, can't hurt.

kratos015 said:

Hard to say whether smaller or larger bubbles are better, they both provide oxygen for teas. For those that like to do teas, I've always recommended larger stones because they're easier to clean and don't clog as easily.

That said, I believe that if one needs to brew a tea with compost then the compost being used wasn't up to snuff in the first place. The oxygen from brewing does in fact speed things up. However, if one needs to brew a tea with their compost then they likely aren't turning their compost often enough or the compost hasn't fully decomposed to begin with, hence the need to "oxygenate" it to speed up the process. This is very common with compost procured from a store, which often has not been fully decomposed.

A quality compost doesn't need to be turned into a tea to do its job. If it does, there is typically something lacking in the compost itself.

The issue with teas is that they don't last as long as top dressing with quality compost does. A quality compost only needs to be applied as a top dress every month or so, where as an AACT needs to be brewed once or twice a week to achieve the same result. An AACT can be a good temporary solution while one figures out a way to get their compost up to snuff, but the end goal should be to have quality compost that doesn't require "brewing" to make it good in the first place.

The compost itself is the source of life via the microbes within it. If you're creating a tea from compost, you aren't solving the ultimate problem, which is the fact your compost isn't fully decomposed/ready yet. Sure, it does provide a boost, and will show results. However, you have to brew teas weekly to achieve the same results as someone that simply top dresses with compost once or twice a month.

If one is brewing teas, that means that the soil/compost does not have the necessary means to sustain microbe life by itself, so "teas" are only a band-aid that doesn't solve the actual problem within the soil/compost itself.

For someone that can't make their own compost or needs to make a tiny bit of compost/EWC go a long way, an AACT can definitely be a blessing. But after a while, it becomes more of a chore than it's worth. A quality pile of homemade compost/EWC will do far more than all the products from websites such as BuildASoil and the like.

When in doubt, default to how things are done in nature, specifically a forest as a self-sustaining closed loop system. In the forests, there is no one applying aerated compost teas to keep things going. The soil in the forest is teeming with life, sustained all by itself in a closed loop system without any help from outside sources. The ultimate no-till. Everything is recycled and has a purpose. The Redwood Forest and Sequoia Forest don't have park rangers brewing compost teas to sustain it, it is a closed loop system that we should all study in the hopes of replicating it as affordably and efficiently as possible.

Not trying to sound like a hipster, nor be a buzzkill. The fact is our goal as growers should be to buy less and less products over time to keep things going. Only purchasing what is necessary to cultivate a closed loop system that can sustain itself, so we don't have to worry about what will happen if we can't procure things from Amazon or BuildASoil.

All the best.

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I agree.

I think the take away here is that there is a time and a place.

Consider the objective and then approach it from there. I would say that there are benefits to both.

Composting is an art and big ups to you if you are getting it right but these things take time and effort to learn. You are not just going to land the perfect compost recipe off the bat. It takes months of trial and error, in my experience, to perfect these skills.

Teas on the other hand are much easier to leean how to do and maybe their benefits are not as long lasting but they are there. Writing off compost teas simply is not something I would just throw out if the equation.

I think a major wake up in the cultivation industry I had is that people have strong bias and they are quick to rule things out because of their own personal experiences.

If you want to get good at this game, look around, consider, try, document, reflect and learn.

I have seen people make outrageous statements on these forums, on learning materials and at grow shops. People are still spraying agricultural grade pesticides on their crops saying its ok. So take things in your stride and figure out what works for you.

Dogmas are dangerous.

xtsho said:

I have never noticed any difference using it vs not using it in container plants. I have noticed a difference in the vegetable garden though and since it's so easy to make I apply it prior to planting and then several times throughout the growing season.

JMS is JADAM which was started by Youngsang Cho who is the son of Hankyu Cho considered the father of KNF. JADAM is simpler and you don't use brown sugar to make the inputs.

View attachment 5247504



You dilute it 1-20 so I make a 5 gallons and then split it up between a bunch of other buckets and spread it the garden plots.

View attachment 5247505

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That's interesting you say you didn't notice a difference in your container plants - I've heard from another seasoned grower that it only helped in his outdoor in-ground plants.

Maybe your container plant soil was so good, the JMS didn't make a difference? The person I knew said he thinks that's why it didn't make a difference - if you have great organic living soil, you don't really need KNF or JADAM. I've never used it so I don't know, but just an anecdote I've heard.

Reap911 said:

I think a major wake up in the cultivation industry I had is that people have strong bias and they are quick to rule things out because of their own personal experiences.

If you want to get good at this game, look around, consider, try, document, reflect and learn.

I have seen people make outrageous statements on these forums, on learning materials and at grow shops. People are still spraying agricultural grade pesticides on their crops saying its ok. So take things in your stride and figure out what works for you.

Dogmas are dangerous.

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Exactly.

If your soil has lots of inputs and nutrients but the plants don't seem to be growing well, some tea might kickstart the soil organisms.

But if your plants are going nuts and you pull back your soil cover to see thick roots along the surface of loose, moist soil teeming with mites and fungus - you probably won't get much out of a tea.

I use a homemade supersoil and although I do topdress my containers regularly, I have found the simplest and most effective way to insure I have great microbial activity without being too much (eating the N) I just add the tiniest amount of Recharge to each gallon of water. That way there is always activity but never a big up and down of the population. Tiny as in 1/32 of a tsp. Just enough to know the top of the pot will be active along with the rest.

After reading endlessly about microbes and container growing this idea made sense and has worked well. By not adding large amounts at any time the population seems steady and effective.

I am not sure that a tea would be all that more effective than topdressing something and watering it in! It may be slightly faster but the bennies arent complex organisms that take long to thrive are they?

kratos015 said:

Hard to say whether smaller or larger bubbles are better, they both provide oxygen for teas. For those that like to do teas, I've always recommended larger stones because they're easier to clean and don't clog as easily.

That said, I believe that if one needs to brew a tea with compost then the compost being used wasn't up to snuff in the first place. The oxygen from brewing does in fact speed things up. However, if one needs to brew a tea with their compost then they likely aren't turning their compost often enough or the compost hasn't fully decomposed to begin with, hence the need to "oxygenate" it to speed up the process. This is very common with compost procured from a store, which often has not been fully decomposed.

A quality compost doesn't need to be turned into a tea to do its job. If it does, there is typically something lacking in the compost itself.

The issue with teas is that they don't last as long as top dressing with quality compost does. A quality compost only needs to be applied as a top dress every month or so, where as an AACT needs to be brewed once or twice a week to achieve the same result. An AACT can be a good temporary solution while one figures out a way to get their compost up to snuff, but the end goal should be to have quality compost that doesn't require "brewing" to make it good in the first place.

The compost itself is the source of life via the microbes within it. If you're creating a tea from compost, you aren't solving the ultimate problem, which is the fact your compost isn't fully decomposed/ready yet. Sure, it does provide a boost, and will show results. However, you have to brew teas weekly to achieve the same results as someone that simply top dresses with compost once or twice a month.

If one is brewing teas, that means that the soil/compost does not have the necessary means to sustain microbe life by itself, so "teas" are only a band-aid that doesn't solve the actual problem within the soil/compost itself.

For someone that can't make their own compost or needs to make a tiny bit of compost/EWC go a long way, an AACT can definitely be a blessing. But after a while, it becomes more of a chore than it's worth. A quality pile of homemade compost/EWC will do far more than all the products from websites such as BuildASoil and the like.

When in doubt, default to how things are done in nature, specifically a forest as a self-sustaining closed loop system. In the forests, there is no one applying aerated compost teas to keep things going. The soil in the forest is teeming with life, sustained all by itself in a closed loop system without any help from outside sources. The ultimate no-till. Everything is recycled and has a purpose. The Redwood Forest and Sequoia Forest don't have park rangers brewing compost teas to sustain it, it is a closed loop system that we should all study in the hopes of replicating it as affordably and efficiently as possible.

Not trying to sound like a hipster, nor be a buzzkill. The fact is our goal as growers should be to buy less and less products over time to keep things going. Only purchasing what is necessary to cultivate a closed loop system that can sustain itself, so we don't have to worry about what will happen if we can't procure things from Amazon or BuildASoil.

All the best.

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Thanks Kratos, great insight as usual. I was actually thinking about this - how at first growing plants seems so complicated and scientific... but now I realize all the stuff that works really well is just what you'd see happening in nature. Heating mats help seeds germinate because it mimics the sun hitting the topsoil. Without heat, some seeds won't germinate. Some seeds need to be put in a fridge in dampness for a few weeks / months to germinate, because they're from cold climates, etc. Crazy no one teaches us to think like that, and has to be so much overcomplicated information out there.

I definitely don't think you sound like a hipster or buzzkill, I'm glad I only bought a bucket and not a bubbler! Was going to do a tea extract first.

I know some people swear by AACT to get their soil microbiology up and notice it works great for them. But I think a more experienced grower mentioned to me it helped a lot with his outdoor (in-ground) plants... but his potted plants that had high-quality organic no-till soil didn't get any better. He said if you have really good no-till soil it's already pretty much perfect and teeming with microbiology and AACT nor compost extract will make it any better. So I hear where you're coming from, and it makes sense. And as with everything, you can't beat nature. I've learned that lesson in many other arenas the hard way.

The one thing though that makes me scratch my head with that... on reddit, the most amazing grow pictures seemed to always be from people using KNF (which from what I understand it just a much more complicated, labor intensive method to get the same microbiology you'd get from a AACT or healthy no-till soil). I've also heard stories about people saying weed grown with KNF was amazing. But maybe those people never tried it with no-till? I'm still curious about that... I remember hearing this about 2 years ago or so, so maybe I'm remembering something wrong.

RenaissanceBrah said:

Thanks Kratos, great insight as usual. I was actually thinking about this - how at first growing plants seems so complicated and scientific... but now I realize all the stuff that works really well is just what you'd see happening in nature. Heating mats help seeds germinate because it mimics the sun hitting the topsoil. Without heat, some seeds won't germinate. Some seeds need to be put in a fridge in dampness for a few weeks / months to germinate, because they're from cold climates, etc. Crazy no one teaches us to think like that, and has to be so much overcomplicated information out there.

I definitely don't think you sound like a hipster or buzzkill, I'm glad I only bought a bucket and not a bubbler! Was going to do a tea extract first.

I know some people swear by AACT to get their soil microbiology up and notice it works great for them. But I think a more experienced grower mentioned to me it helped a lot with his outdoor (in-ground) plants... but his potted plants that had high-quality organic no-till soil didn't get any better. He said if you have really good no-till soil it's already pretty much perfect and teeming with microbiology and AACT nor compost extract will make it any better. So I hear where you're coming from, and it makes sense. And as with everything, you can't beat nature. I've learned that lesson in many other arenas the hard way.

The one thing though that makes me scratch my head with that... on reddit, the most amazing grow pictures seemed to always be from people using KNF (which from what I understand it just a much more complicated, labor intensive method to get the same microbiology you'd get from a AACT or healthy no-till soil). I've also heard stories about people saying weed grown with KNF was amazing. But maybe those people never tried it with no-till? I'm still curious about that... I remember hearing this about 2 years ago or so, so maybe I'm remembering something wrong.

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Its just like anything field of study you will find. Some people believe in A while others swear by B. Its crazy but if you want to get good at this game, you have to lesrn to play by your own rules. Try, record, analyze, conpare and reflect. I document what I do. That is how I have gotten better.

I am in the process of building my soils and I have found that teas are great for getting things going. I like to use them alongisde top dressing as well as I just want to get as much biology in there to get the mix alive and kicking. If I will continue to do this after 6 months of the doil being used, probably but I will do some testing and compare results. Thats is the best way for me.

The KNF is actually quite simple. I think it takes a bit of study to understand but once you grasp it, its pretty straight forward. I think the big reason why these people are getting such good results is that they are uding raw fresh materials and keeping the biology as alive as possible. I do feel like you are losing out on valuable micro elements when you are getting things off a shelf.

I am going to start using KNF moving forward, I started by slacked a bit, and I will come back to you on the results but yeah alot of the Organic guys talk very highly of these processes, especially the WCA and WCAP. Just check out Chris Trump on Youtube. Thats how I learnt.

Reap911 said:

Its just like anything field of study you will find. Some people believe in A while others swear by B. Its crazy but if you want to get good at this game, you have to lesrn to play by your own rules. Try, record, analyze, conpare and reflect. I document what I do. That is how I have gotten better.

I am in the process of building my soils and I have found that teas are great for getting things going. I like to use them alongisde top dressing as well as I just want to get as much biology in there to get the mix alive and kicking. If I will continue to do this after 6 months of the doil being used, probably but I will do some testing and compare results. Thats is the best way for me.

The KNF is actually quite simple. I think it takes a bit of study to understand but once you grasp it, its pretty straight forward. I think the big reason why these people are getting such good results is that they are uding raw fresh materials and keeping the biology as alive as possible. I do feel like you are losing out on valuable micro elements when you are getting things off a shelf.

I am going to start using KNF moving forward, I started by slacked a bit, and I will come back to you on the results but yeah alot of the Organic guys talk very highly of these processes, especially the WCA and WCAP. Just check out Chris Trump on Youtube. Thats how I learnt.

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Thanks Reap - experience is the best teacher. At the end of the day just gotta do it, and see what works. Not to mention there's always many variables, some which aren't mentioned, so what works in location A might not work in location B, etc etc.

Crazy how growing can be so simple, and people overcomplicate it by doing hydroponics and that kinda stuff.

I'd like to test KNF side by side with compost tea and maybe a compost bubbler, maybe next season I'll be able to setup some kind of experiment.

Hydro really isn't that complicated. Especially coco.

LowRange said:

Not quite...


Same as the temp when brewing teas, different organisms live and die at various temperatures. So getting the brews temperature in the right range is also important to promoting growth and multiplication of good beneficial bacteria, rather then producing bad bacteria.

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I‘m starting my journey with compost teas right now. May I aak what is the ideal temps for a successful brew? Thanks for the reply

natureboygrower said:

I use a pond aerator.
View attachment 5247360
Imo/e compost teas are a great way to rejuvenate outdoor beds/ pots if you have a lot and want to reuse it ( soil that is)
I have not used much tea indoors, my indoor soil mix contains compost from my own pile which I make every run.

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have you found a way to deal with the foam overflow?