Confused with coco

stilltokin

Well-Known Member
ok thanks for all the help, I picked up a bottle of rhizotonic and will use it once the coco is a bit dry. I will mix 8 ml of rhizo with 2 litres of water(said on the bottle). So I hope this can help my little girl out as she is growing incredibly slow. she also has some purple spots on the cotlydons which I hope will dissapear soon. Any thoughts on that?
thanks again
 

Jonus

Well-Known Member
Wow that sounds like a lot. i guess that must just be for the seedling rooting period?
 

Jonus

Well-Known Member
Not sure if this hasnt been brought up earlier but with Coco getting the EC correct per the instructions on your Coco Nutrients instructions is crucial. Too high an EC rating (and of course pH which goes without saying) will damage your plants.

If you can get your hands on an EC meter without starving your children to do so, then it will make feeding a more precise exercise as well as accurately testing your run off for high ec. Getting the mix right the first time reduces the need to flush.
 

kaos.underwave

Active Member
Hi

With my coco I water

my seedlings once every two days until roots appear outside of the small coco coir cups
after transplanting
1st week [veg] > once a day
2nd to 4th weeks [veg] > twice a day
5th to 8th weeks [flower] > three times a day
after that four times a day

I drip in a recirculating system for 30 mins at a time, through 2l/hour drippers
this is in 6.5 litre pots, 20x20 x 25 [d]

This creates more than 10% runoff.
It works like a charm.


"Usually the idea behind the 10% runoff theory is that eventually the roots which would occupy most of the pot, would use up the moisture in the pot then wick the 10% runoff up and use that up too.

But if your plant is still a seedling and only occupying the top 20% of your pot then the wicking affect doesnt really work that well. In the meantime if there is so much moisture in the top half of the pot, then the roots will accumulate there and not go deep into the coco." - jonus

I disagree. I think your statements apply to soil. My roots go all over the place very quickly. And I'm sure wicking isnt such a good idea with coco, if you soak the medium regularly without making the runoff available to wick then there should be no need for that extra wicking water, which I think messes with the amount of oxygen being drawn down through the medium each time you water.

I believe the idea behind watering with a small amount of runoff is NOT to encourage roots to grow downward, though that might happen too I guess.

Because of this

"Coir has a very strong cation exchange ability, which means it can hold and release nutrient elements based on the plants needs."
watering to runoff introduces nutrients to the medium which replace some of the nutes left in there from the last watering, balancing the proportion of nutrients, and flushing out any high concentrations, preventing any undesirable nutrient build up.

"i "always" allow 10-15% run-off. the reason for run-off is to keep nutes from accumulating in the coco. every time you feed, you're in essence doing a flush" -silky

Yeah, keep watering with a small amount of runoff for the whole cycle, would be my advice, and let that runoff drain away somewhere, either to waste or into a reservoir to recirculate.

I read somewhere on here that because coco is so capable at holding oxygen, and because it is like a sponge, the water is distributed pretty evenly throughout the whole medium, so the roots keep searching for water at a faster rate than in soil, even when all the coco is wet. Seedlings dont need much water but with coco its very hard to overwater.

I wouldnt drip/water constantly through coco, like with clay pebbles for example, but a regular schedule works fine. My coco is pretty much constantly wet everywhere except the top 1cm, and no problems whatsoever, the opposite in fact, huge, gorgeous plants.

In short, dont worry about it being too wet, worry about it getting dry, water small amounts regularly, keep watering to runoff, and keep the drainage set up you got going. Only with soil do you need to know when its time for them to get water; with coco, if you stick to something vaguely like the feeding schedule I use you dont need to check the coco with finger or metre, or guess the weight of the pot, or look at the plant for clues. No worries about over or under watering whatsoever.

ps canna coco is awesome by itself
I really recommend hesi nutrients, though I havent used canna A+B
consider investing in an automatic irrigation + reservoir system, so you can automate the feeding. simpler and cheaper than it sounds, basically just a box, a pump, a timer and some pipes. Then you only need to mix the nutes once a week, and at the end of flowering you can water loads [like four times a day] without any hassle at all, which the plants love.

good luck, and have fun! coco rules!
 

Jonus

Well-Known Member
I disagree. I think your statements apply to soil. My roots go all over the place very quickly. And I'm sure wicking isnt such a good idea with coco, if you soak the medium regularly without making the runoff available to wick then there should be no need for that extra wicking water, which I think messes with the amount of oxygen being drawn down through the medium each time you water.

Yep I agree with you there, no argument, it doesnt take long for them to fill out a 30 litre pot. But meanwhile while theyre doing that if you are letting run off sit in the pot footer it will just end up being an air lock.

The point I was making is the same one youre making, wicking is not a good idea with coco just because its thats the way soil growers do it. I get my pH and EC right the first time, and the amount I hand feed them right the first time, little to no run off, nice airated coco medium.

However I do purposefully water to get some run off, every now and then, just so I can test the EC coming out the bottom and it acts as a mini flush of any buildup that may be happening toward the bottom of the pots.
 

stilltokin

Well-Known Member
Thanks alot for all this info but may I ask what is this wicking? Ive been growing for a while and have never heard of this.
Thanks to you guys I now know when to water and how much. The only problem I'm having with my seedling is that the cotyledons have already turned yellow and there are a few purple spots on the main leaves. Ive never had this problem in soil and was wondering if you guys could help me out.
Thanks again
 

jpalms27

Well-Known Member
what do you all think of Bcuzz coco substrate?
I use Advanced Nutrients 13 step program with a 50/50 mix of coco and perlite and run my ph 6.3.. i hear all these things about coco but never specifically coco substrate always coir or crutons
 

Jonus

Well-Known Member
Thanks alot for all this info but may I ask what is this wicking? Ive been growing for a while and have never heard of this.
Thanks to you guys I now know when to water and how much. The only problem I'm having with my seedling is that the cotyledons have already turned yellow and there are a few purple spots on the main leaves. Ive never had this problem in soil and was wondering if you guys could help me out.
Thanks again
As I understand it with soil, you'd put a thin layer of perlite on the bottom of the pot, then the soil. Watering with a 10% run off into the pot footer. When the pot begins to dry, the perlite wicks the water out of the footer and back up into the pot a bit like a kerosine lamp and wick does, hence wicking. Especially good when youve got a real thirsty plant, or have to piss off for a day or two, and your plant misses a day of watering.

As you can imagine a 50l pot full of roots will drink a lot of water in a day. At its peak up to 3 litres. After the advice from another coco grower here I feed mine twice a day, a litre and a half per feed. But if I have to go away for a day i can over water filling the footer and it will be bone dry when I get back.
 

stilltokin

Well-Known Member
As I understand it with soil, you'd put a thin layer of perlite on the bottom of the pot, then the soil. Watering with a 10% run off into the pot footer. When the pot begins to dry, the perlite wicks the water out of the footer and back up into the pot a bit like a kerosine lamp and wick does, hence wicking. Especially good when youve got a real thirsty plant, or have to piss off for a day or two, and your plant misses a day of watering.

As you can imagine a 50l pot full of roots will drink a lot of water in a day. At its peak up to 3 litres. After the advice from another coco grower here I feed mine twice a day, a litre and a half per feed. But if I have to go away for a day i can over water filling the footer and it will be bone dry when I get back.
oh ok i get it, yea thats a good idea but too late for me now. i see almost everyone mixing their coco with perlite. Mines 100% coco and seems to hold water for a long time which could be good when the little thing gets big with billions of roots dont you think??
peace
 

Jonus

Well-Known Member
Yeah I dont use perlite either in coco. But the holes in the bottom of my pots are quite large. I use a piece of cardboard to block them initially so that the coco doesnt just run straight through.

Eventually the cardboard breaks down and is mostly gone by the end of the grow.
 

daddychrisg

Well-Known Member
I have used a 50-50 mix of perlite and coco in a ebb n grow feeding system, and had great results. to retain the coco mix, I cut out coco discs using a mat of coco.http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/gardening_supplies.aspx?request=COCOTEK-ORGANIC-GROWING-MEDIUM&title=Growing Media&type=product

During Flower, feeding three times a day @1400ppm using GH 3 part.
The main thing I can say about what to watch for is salt build up. I think it is a must to flush out the entire system with a salt dissolving solution "florakleen" at least once every two weeks. I have seen ph of 4 and ppm of 3k with out flushing...no good! Canna Coco is the best that I have seen, I would not use another brand unless I had to...GL
 

Silky Shagsalot

Well-Known Member
Yeah I dont use perlite either in coco. But the holes in the bottom of my pots are quite large. I use a piece of cardboard to block them initially so that the coco doesnt just run straight through. Eventually the cardboard breaks down and is mostly gone by the end of the grow.
i highly recommend using perlite in your coco. aeration is already good (around 30%) but a 10-15% addition of perlite is better. if you go to the material section of wally mart you'll find some mesh type material (try and use ones that aren't very colorful, dyes are no good.) it looks like miniature fish netting. cut pieces of this and place in the bottom of your containers. works very good.
 

anynameisok

Active Member
I'm trying coco, which I used without perlite or anything else, and it is definitely not overwatering-proof. I'm having a bitch of a time dialing in the correct nutes because the plants go into overwatered/wilty-leaves mode if I water more than a couple of times a week. Maybe because the root mass isn't taking up enough of a percentage of the pot space yet.

I wish that I had mixed this with perlite or something. It would drain faster and be easier to manipulate.
 

Silky Shagsalot

Well-Known Member
I'm trying coco, which I used without perlite or anything else, and it is definitely not overwatering-proof. I'm having a bitch of a time dialing in the correct nutes because the plants go into overwatered/wilty-leaves mode if I water more than a couple of times a week. Maybe because the root mass isn't taking up enough of a percentage of the pot space yet. I wish that I had mixed this with perlite or something. It would drain faster and be easier to manipulate.
my guess is that they're underwatered. remember, coco is basically hydro, so you can feed every day, which is what i do. just make sure you get 10-15% run-off.
 

stilltokin

Well-Known Member
yea ive moved on from my first coco grow which was 100percent coco, now i use about 40% perlite and 60% canna coco. I also started them in smaller cups to help drainage, coco takes a while to get used to i still havent got the hang of it coz its hard for me to water em when the cups are still wet, probably coz im used to soil. Im growing aurora indica from nirvana so hope things will be better this time.
 
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