Contam test

I have what I consider "contam resistant" myc.
But I want to prove it.
I assume I'll have to do a bunch of agar plates with different myc, introduce tric and others, and see what happens.

But until then:

I did a damon's bucket tech.
As I carried the hot bucket up 3 flights of stairs, the lid came off.
Fuck it.
It was 1 of several.

I put the lid back on and put it aside.
3 days later I open it up.
The sweet horrible smell of apple vinegar.
Yeah, that's contammed pretty bad.

I take an old tub that I just pulled a dead contammed sub out of.
I do an in-sink bleach wash.
I tape it up.

I slam/shake 4 quart jars of PE popcorn.
I take them into my still air area, but I have NOT been running ozone, and I use no spray of any kind in the air.
I put on long gloves (reused, not recently washed), but do not put on a mask.

I spray the gloves with h202.

I open the jars and dump them into the bin.
I had not done any wipe on them.

I dump the damon's bucket in. This is a deep sub, maybe 4.5 inches. Lots of possibly compacted space to go bad.

I mix the shit out of it by hand. It takes several minutes. I coughed in it a few times.

I close it up, tape the handles, and pray. To who or what I dunno, but maybe just a little bit.

2 days later I see a bit of fuzz on the visible kernels.

Shit. This might actually work.

testtime said:

I have what I consider "contam resistant" myc.
But I want to prove it.
I assume I'll have to do a bunch of agar plates with different myc, introduce tric and others, and see what happens.

But until then:

I did a damon's bucket tech.
As I carried the hot bucket up 3 flights of stairs, the lid came off.
Fuck it.
It was 1 of several.

I put the lid back on and put it aside.
3 days later I open it up.
The sweet horrible smell of apple vinegar.
Yeah, that's contammed pretty bad.

I take an old tub that I just pulled a dead contammed sub out of.
I do an in-sink bleach wash.
I tape it up.

I slam/shake 4 quart jars of PE popcorn.
I take them into my still air area, but I have NOT been running ozone, and I use no spray of any kind in the air.
I put on long gloves (reused, not recently washed), but do not put on a mask.

I spray the gloves with h202.

I open the jars and dump them into the bin.
I had not done any wipe on them.

I dump the damon's bucket in. This is a deep sub, maybe 4.5 inches. Lots of possibly compacted space to go bad.

I mix the shit out of it by hand. It takes several minutes. I coughed in it a few times.

I close it up, tape the handles, and pray. To who or what I dunno, but maybe just a little bit.

2 days later I see a bit of fuzz on the visible kernels.

Shit. This might actually work.

Click to expand...

Betcha it does.

probably will, i've done a LOT worse to my tubs while being drunk and stupid, and I was surprised that some of the things I did never effected the tubs in an ill fashion. I've even spit in a tub on purpose to see what would happen. Cobb web mold lol, just in case you try. One thing I would try is mixing in some old coffee grinds into your mix, during your soak, before PCing and such. You can get TONS of it for free at starbucks, ask for a bag of the "grounds for gardens" coffee grinds and they will hook u up. It speeds up my myc growth A LOT, and has proved to be a nifty little trick. Also, if you are making cakes, this might be a better method than simple glass jars, I made this tek up several years ago. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3940227#3940227

JustAfter419 said:

probably will, i've done a LOT worse to my tubs while being drunk and stupid, and I was surprised that some of the things I did never effected the tubs in an ill fashion. I've even spit in a tub on purpose to see what would happen. Cobb web mold lol, just in case you try. One thing I would try is mixing in some old coffee grinds into your mix, during your soak, before PCing and such. You can get TONS of it for free at starbucks, ask for a bag of the "grounds for gardens" coffee grinds and they will hook u up. It speeds up my myc growth A LOT, and has proved to be a nifty little trick. Also, if you are making cakes, this might be a better method than simple glass jars, I made this tek up several years ago. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3940227#3940227

Click to expand...

We try to discourage PF tec here at RIU HS. I have used coffee grounds to great effect in the formulation of sclerotia producing substrates but never took the trouble to do it with any fruiting strains. How do you suppose it might work as straw enrichment in shaggy manes?

Glad to hear that you discourage PF, it's very inferior, but many novice growers use it to see if it is something they could put more time/money/effort into the hobby. I encourage the full spectrum of growing teks, starting from BRF&Verm cakes, on up to bulk. It gives the grower a chance to understand the growth cycles through different methods, as well as educates the beginner in the differences in growing teks, as well as benefits of different nutrient subs. All that aside, I do believe that a smaller or lighter dose of coffee would be fine for straw enrichment for your shaggy manes. I say lighter dose because I have found that the lighter dose's of coffee have worked better than heavy ones, across the board. A little crushed gypsum wouldn't hurt either ~419~

JustAfter419 said:

Glad to hear that you discourage PF, it's very inferior, but many novice growers use it to see if it is something they could put more time/money/effort into the hobby. I encourage the full spectrum of growing teks, starting from BRF&Verm cakes, on up to bulk. It gives the grower a chance to understand the growth cycles through different methods, as well as educates the beginner in the differences in growing teks, as well as benefits of different nutrient subs. All that aside, I do believe that a smaller or lighter dose of coffee would be fine for straw enrichment for your shaggy manes. I say lighter dose because I have found that the lighter dose's of coffee have worked better than heavy ones, across the board. A little crushed gypsum wouldn't hurt either ~419~

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I often treat the pasteruization water with something, gypsum or calcium chloride. I don't like to encourage this tek mostly because it seems to me to run contrary to the natural growing cycle of the organism. As I have said, p. cubensis tends to grow in spite of the PF tek rather than because of it. I can't really undersand why fruiting directly from whole grain spawn is termed bulk when it can be done in half pint jars in the same manner as any rice flour and vermiculite combination. The nutrient value is a bit higher for the whole grain but of course the water retention and surface area are not nearly as good. Still, if one cases the grain, the results can be quite good.

Another thing is that we try to encourage casing any substrate. I have seen many discussions on the relative merits of cased vs uncased substrates for cubensis but I will argue on thhe side of casing every time as a way to orchestrate your pin set and get the most yield from your first three flushes.

Now what do you suppose are the mechanics of coffee grounds? is it simply nutrition? micro nutrients? ph? caffine? charred matter? perhaps carbon itself? For the most part I no longer much believe in elaborate concoctions of substrate, settling for a basic material that offers the water retention needed and PH within the basic parameters, seems most species do well with the more simple things. I contend that because mycelium is not a plant, it is capable of creating the elements it needs, breaking down the complex into the more basic rather than, as plants do, requiring the fundamentals in order to build complex molecules.

Bulk = WBS or rye, etc in bag or jar as spawn, inoculated, colonized, and used as spawn to a larger supstrate, i.e. horse/staw, staw alone, or other mixes of dungs/straws/composts, cased with a mixture of often verm/coir and put into a large tub, say 50 gallons each. then fruited, hence bulk. the way i do it

as for the coffee grounds, i have heard it is due directly/semi-directly to the caffeine, and possibly from some minerals and micro nutes left behind. BUT it has to be already used grounds. Grounds that have not been processed (brewed and used) possess too much potency and will make your myco "piss" in your bags/jars look very nasty, and eventually cause an infection that will cause that area to not grow any longer. I put about 6 cups of used grounds into a starting weight of 100# of dry WBS, then add water. I agree simple is the way to go, find something that works for you and stick to it. Experiment after you have experience under your belt, and have time/space/money to burn. It's a very fun hobby with fun times for all when you do it right
~419~

Your liver and eyesight just isn't worth this experiment....
Not to mention that contams will build up in your environment the longer you keep it around, makeing future grows harder...

Scratch and start over mate.

JustAfter419 said:

Bulk = WBS or rye, etc in bag or jar as spawn, inoculated, colonized, and used as spawn to a larger supstrate, i.e. horse/staw, staw alone, or other mixes of dungs/straws/composts, cased with a mixture of often verm/coir and put into a large tub, say 50 gallons each. then fruited, hence bulk. the way i do it

as for the coffee grounds, i have heard it is due directly/semi-directly to the caffeine, and possibly from some minerals and micro nutes left behind. BUT it has to be already used grounds. Grounds that have not been processed (brewed and used) possess too much potency and will make your myco "piss" in your bags/jars look very nasty, and eventually cause an infection that will cause that area to not grow any longer. I put about 6 cups of used grounds into a starting weight of 100# of dry WBS, then add water. I agree simple is the way to go, find something that works for you and stick to it. Experiment after you have experience under your belt, and have time/space/money to burn. It's a very fun hobby with fun times for all when you do it right
~419~

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Thank you for your continuing input to the discussion. We can always learn more even in this hobby where the basics are fairly straight forward but it is in the tiny details that we find great rewards. I have been growing mushrooms of one sort or another for a little over 40 years. What I rarely do, even now, is stick to the exact same methods - an alteration here and there makes it more interesting. Frankly, after I grew some of the more exotic psylocibin producing species, they lost the challenge that some of the more exotic eatable varieties present.


Never had a lot of luck with mexicana though - I got it to fruit but i was gunning for massive flushes that I could never seem to encourage to grow. I am partial to the shaggies because I found some extraordinary individuals on a foraging expidition near my house and managed to isolate a clone - as you know, it is difficult to collect the spores from the autodigesters. So, I am domesticating a wild strain that has already become long acustomed to the environment where I live. If I am very very good, I will attempt to put this strain back into the "wild", but in a semi-controled setting.

I have easy access to rye berries and have never enjoyed using wild bird seed as substrate or spawning material though I know many who swear by it.

ANC said:

Your liver and eyesight just isn't worth this experiment....
Not to mention that contams will build up in your environment the longer you keep it around, makeing future grows harder...

Scratch and start over mate.

Click to expand...

The primary reason to chuck your contaminated attempts is what ANC said, you will screw up your environment - little by little you will begin to compromise your growing area and make it just a bit harder each time to grow your next crop - eventually you will invariably destroy your ability to grow in that environment even if you are diligent in your cleaning efforts, especially if you grow in a dwelling.

Very nice on the isolation of your shaggies! I hope your iso takes on strong in its new terrain, i would recommend starting your substrate (or in this case, hopeful spawn) indoors, in a large bag if possible, like a trashbag or other large plastic kind. When you reach FULL colonization take the bag outdoors, in a myco-friendly environment and bury it just below grown level, cut the top off the bag and case it flush with the ground. This will somewhat improve the chances of re-adjustment in different environments. And within time it should take on the new terrain.

As for contams. It's not worth keeping them around. AT ALL. If you see a contamination throw that particular item in the trash. It's not worth the cost of a jar, bag, or tub... well, in the case of if you have more than 1 fruiting chamber running at the same time. If you open anything with a contamination you run the risk of those spores getting into the air, in the end, landing your other tubs and showing it's ugly face again, 10 fold. You can only see most contamination's after they have reproduced and sent their spores out. So if you see mold visibly, IT'S CONTAGIOUS to ALL of your equipment and the grow itself! In addition to releasing mold spores into the air that will affect your grow's health, check out the link below about "mushroom lung". There's stuff that's harmful to you too. So wear a mask when messing with anything, even pre-sterilization/pasteurization. Not just to keep your nasty germs away from your fungi, but to also keep it from getting you funked up too!!

http://www.themushroompeople.com/showArticle.asp?id=1407 <~~~~ Article on "Mushroom Lung" or "Mushroom Workers Lung"


~419~

testtime said:

Shit. This might actually work.

Click to expand...

And 15 days later it is fully colonized and has been consolidating for a few days, and is ready for air.

Yay.

When I knocked up some jars, I had an older jar of corn in my ozone chamber. It had a latex tube that the ozone ate off, and it was open to the air. For 2 months.

My ozone chamber no longer has gloves on it, just a couple of holes with flaps, and open airflow which I reach through, usually wearing surgical gloves.

The last noc pass I did I also squirted a bit of LC into the old jar, through the open hole where the latex tube is.

A week later, and there is a nice stream of myc running through it. I reach in, bare hands, no cleaning (other than the constant ozone which the myc obviously doesn't mind), and shake the shit out of the jar, with my bare hands over the opening.

I then take a corn jar that has been PCed a week ago, open it up, open the just shaken jar, and pour some of the kernels in for a g2g. With bare hands. And placing the lids down on the table and then reusing them.

We'll see if it works.

testtime said:

When I knocked up some jars, I had an older jar of corn in my ozone chamber. It had a latex tube that the ozone ate off, and it was open to the air. For 2 months.

My ozone chamber no longer has gloves on it, just a couple of holes with flaps, and open airflow which I reach through, usually wearing surgical gloves.

The last noc pass I did I also squirted a bit of LC into the old jar, through the open hole where the latex tube is.

A week later, and there is a nice stream of myc running through it. I reach in, bare hands, no cleaning (other than the constant ozone which the myc obviously doesn't mind), and shake the shit out of the jar, with my bare hands over the opening.

I then take a corn jar that has been PCed a week ago, open it up, open the just shaken jar, and pour some of the kernels in for a g2g. With bare hands. And placing the lids down on the table and then reusing them.

We'll see if it works.

Click to expand...

Your mycelium is at its weakest state after it has been shaken. It takes between 12 hours and 2 days for it to recover fully, now that is dependant of course on the collonization rate previous. If your kernels were 50 percent covered, your mycelium still has to take hold on all the bare spots that it wasn't growing on before. If it was 100 percent as it has to do is recover from the physical damage but in that time you can infect the grain. Your most common culpret is bacteria - the worst of these is "wetspot", I am in a state now that precludes my use of the proper name - mucor comes to mind but don't quote me on that. The wet spot bacteria will destroy your spawn even if it was 100 percent covered before you shook it (why - one might ask, would one shake 100 percent covered spawn? it is best to shake and rest for one day if you are spawning and you may want to shake if you aren't ready to spawn yet but you fear "knitting" before you get around to spawning)

At any rate, mucor (if that is the correct name) will smell like rotten apples, it leaves a greasy, sort of off white slime and is the bain of all spawn producers - well that and a relatively new phenomenon to me and another grower I've been communicating to - and that is a black pin mold - possibly fusarium that seems to be able to pass through micro pore tape and fiber filters. your grow will look just fine - 20 - 30 percent coverage so you shake, confident that the internal to the bag or jar is just as secure as it was previous to your innoculation. One or two days after that shake you will see this black stuff over everything.


Pretty disgusting.

canndo said:

Your mycelium is at its weakest state after it has been shaken. It takes between 12 hours and 2 days for it to recover fully, now that is dependant of course on the collonization rate previous. If your kernels were 50 percent covered, your mycelium still has to take hold on all the bare spots that it wasn't growing on before.

Click to expand...

Oh, I know. My typical layout pattern is to wait a day until I see visible recovery before I will use it.

In the case of the "contam" tub, the coir was already 3 days into deep rotten apple smell before use. And the PE was shaken and mixed immediately before laying out. And the PE still totally consumed everything happily. This stuff is not just contam resistant, it thrives on it.

In the case of the sitting jar that was open and then squirted with LC, it only had 3 days of growth down a stream on the side. Other than that, nothing. And I shook the hell out of that, and then poured a teaspoon or so of kernels into a totally pristine PCed quart of corn. This is more testing the efficacy of the ozone when combined with a very fast myc in a germ filled (my hands are GERMY) environment for g2g transfers.

While I enjoy LC, I'd like to keep easy no prep g2g as an option.

Ok, 12/11->1/6.

A bit more than 3 weeks.

All the tubs are doing well, into the 1st week of "blobbing" (as expected), but the contam tub has at least 4 times as much fruit as the others, and it is 3 days behind them.

Something tells me I want to do this more.

JustAfter419 said:

Very nice on the isolation of your shaggies! I hope your iso takes on strong in its new terrain, i would recommend starting your substrate (or in this case, hopeful spawn) indoors, in a large bag if possible, like a trashbag or other large plastic kind. When you reach FULL colonization take the bag outdoors, in a myco-friendly environment and bury it just below grown level, cut the top off the bag and case it flush with the ground. This will somewhat improve the chances of re-adjustment in different environments. And within time it should take on the new terrain.

As for contams. It's not worth keeping them around. AT ALL. If you see a contamination throw that particular item in the trash. It's not worth the cost of a jar, bag, or tub... well, in the case of if you have more than 1 fruiting chamber running at the same time. If you open anything with a contamination you run the risk of those spores getting into the air, in the end, landing your other tubs and showing it's ugly face again, 10 fold. You can only see most contamination's after they have reproduced and sent their spores out. So if you see mold visibly, IT'S CONTAGIOUS to ALL of your equipment and the grow itself! In addition to releasing mold spores into the air that will affect your grow's health, check out the link below about "mushroom lung". There's stuff that's harmful to you too. So wear a mask when messing with anything, even pre-sterilization/pasteurization. Not just to keep your nasty germs away from your fungi, but to also keep it from getting you funked up too!!

http://www.themushroompeople.com/showArticle.asp?id=1407 <~~~~ Article on "Mushroom Lung" or "Mushroom Workers Lung"


~419~

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In the event that anyone doubts these health warnings - I am reasonably certain that i contracted Pneumonia from the inhalation of contaminated spores - likely an unknown species of aspergillis niger. I can't be sure but I know that I became quite sick for quite a while, night sweats, hallucinations, low grade fever and the like for several weeks before my sister asked if I thought I might have pneumonia. Sure enough I did and it was pretty bad. I know I cleaned a large number of jars - some I sterilized some I did not, and I am uncertain that sterilization would have made a great deal of difference if one overwhelms one's lungs with itty bitty particles. I can't say I would have died but it is entirely possible, pneumonia is nothing to take lightly. I now ALWAYS wear a full mask when I am doing my cleanup.

One could also say I was lucky in that there are species of aspergillis that are very very nasty,