cops shoot to kill

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Wilksey

Well-Known Member
Bonzo Mendoza said:
I work with this lady who lives in one of the tough neighborhoods in Phoenix. The cops shot a guy in her neighborhood. The dude had a pistol in his hand when a cop shot him with a 12 guage. He was standing agains a redwood fence when the shot hit him in the chest - the force of the impact blew him thru the fence boards just like on t.v.

I once saw a guy get shot by two guys with an AK47 and a 9mm - he got shot 20-30 times. The impact of the bullets kept him standing up and jiggling and jerking - it was really freaky to see.
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I don't know which, cannabis or firearms, is surrounded by more myth, ignorance, and bullshit.

First, the whole "shoot to disarm" works well.....in Hollywood. Shooting is a skill, and developing that skill takes time and money, and even more time and money to sustain and maintain. Cops don't get that kind of training, and the majority of them pretty much suck because departments don't sustain the initial training they get in the academy. Most cops are not "gun people", and unless mandated, they won't train on their own. Hitting a torso is enough of a challenge for these guys already, let alone a specific and smaller part of the body.

Second, simple physics...

The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear. I. Newton
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Hand held rounds fired from common small arms do NOT have the energy required to knock anyone down. The force they impart can be NO greater than the equal amount of force they impart on the shooter, so if the shooter can fire the round without getting knocked on his ass, than the target can absorb the force without getting knocked on their ass.

So why do people fall down?

Sometimes people fall down due to the sudden pain imparted by a round, sometimes they fall because the round knocked out something significant (support bones, spine, brain stem), and other times people DON'T fall down until they either bleed out, or get hit in a significant area. The whole "blown through a door/whatever" is straight up hollywood bullshit. Period. Don't buy into it.

Like cannabis, the myth and bullshit surrounding firearms leads people to fear and demonize them instead of embracing them as a valuable tool that can be responsibly used in our society for a variety of purposes. This fear and ignorance leads to bullshit legislation that restricts firearms to citizens who would use them legally and responsibly. The day the government and criminals alone have sole access to firearms is the day we are ALL fucked.
 
wheels619

wheels619

Well-Known Member
Wilksey said:
I don't know which, cannabis or firearms, is surrounded by more myth, ignorance, and bullshit.

First, the whole "shoot to disarm" works well.....in Hollywood. Shooting is a skill, and developing that skill takes time and money, and even more time and money to sustain and maintain. Cops don't get that kind of training, and the majority of them pretty much suck because departments don't sustain the initial training they get in the academy. Most cops are not "gun people", and unless mandated, they won't train on their own. Hitting a torso is enough of a challenge for these guys already, let alone a specific and smaller part of the body.

Second, simple physics...



Hand held rounds fired from common small arms do NOT have the energy required to knock anyone down. The force they impart can be NO greater than the equal amount of force they impart on the shooter, so if the shooter can fire the round without getting knocked on his ass, than the target can absorb the force without getting knocked on their ass.

So why do people fall down?

Sometimes people fall down due to the sudden pain imparted by a round, sometimes they fall because the round knocked out something significant (support bones, spine, brain stem), and other times people DON'T fall down until they either bleed out, or get hit in a significant area. The whole "blown through a door/whatever" is straight up hollywood bullshit. Period. Don't buy into it.

Like cannabis, the myth and bullshit surrounding firearms leads people to fear and demonize them instead of embracing them as a valuable tool that can be responsibly used in our society for a variety of purposes. This fear and ignorance leads to bullshit legislation that restricts firearms to citizens who would use them legally and responsibly. The day the government and criminals alone have sole access to firearms is the day we are ALL fucked.
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have u ever taken a .45 to the chest? i guarantee with my hallow points it will only take one to knock a person on their ass. my .45 hallow points at 230 grain are traveling less than the speed of sound at about 950 ft per sec out of the muzzle and it carries about 450 pounds of force behind it at about 15 ft. and u cant compare all firearms. semi auto. revolvers. single fire. full auto. they all react differently. i mean a Smith & Wesson 500 can be fired by hand and i guarantee u if it hit u dead center of the chest u wont be standing or even awake for long after the shot. it will instantly knock u on ur ass. a 9 no. a .45 and bigger oh yeah baby. and if u got hit in the chest with bird shot out of a 12 guage at 15 ft its gonna toss u. might not be like in the movies but i hit a dead pig out in the desert one time with a bunch of 12 gauge ammo and the bird shot at 15 ft knocked the pig completely off the stand we had for it. flew about 5 ft. buck shot not so much. the buck shot went thru and put nice exit wounds in it and the slugs were just fuckin devastating. but hey ur the gun guy right? lol.
 
W

Wilksey

Well-Known Member
wheels619 said:
have u ever taken a .45 to the chest? i guarantee with my hallow points it will only take one to knock a person on their ass. my .45 hallow points at 230 grain are traveling less than the speed of sound at about 950 ft per sec out of the muzzle and it carries about 450 pounds of force behind it at about 15 ft. and u cant compare all firearms. semi auto. revolvers. single fire. full auto. they all react differently. i mean a Smith & Wesson 500 can be fired by hand and i guarantee u if it hit u dead center of the chest u wont be standing or even awake for long after the shot. it will instantly knock u on ur ass. a 9 no. a .45 and bigger oh yeah baby. and if u got hit in the chest with bird shot out of a 12 guage at 15 ft its gonna toss u. might not be like in the movies but i hit a dead pig out in the desert one time with a bunch of 12 gauge ammo and the bird shot at 15 ft knocked the pig completely off the stand we had for it. flew about 5 ft. buck shot not so much. the buck shot went thru and put nice exit wounds in it and the slugs were just fuckin devastating. but hey ur the gun guy right? lol.
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PM sent.

I don't care what size round, or what myth surrounds it, if it can be fired by a standing man, it doesn't have the energy to knock a man down. Again, that's physics.

There have been countless examples of human beings being engaged by a variety of small arms and NOT falling down. The rounds just don't have the energy.

It's myth.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
What knocks people down is not energy, but momentum ( = mass x velocity). If firing a .45 doesn't even rock me back on my heels, then it'll have a similar (mild) upsetting effect on the target. A full torso hit with a 12-gauge magnum at max drams and ounces might do it, but it'll be a pushover and not a flung-sideways deal. cn
 
wheels619

wheels619

Well-Known Member
Wilksey said:
PM sent.

I don't care what size round, or what myth surrounds it, if it can be fired by a standing man, it doesn't have the energy to knock a man down. Again, that's physics.

There have been countless examples of human beings being engaged by a variety of small arms and NOT falling down. The rounds just don't have the energy.

It's myth.
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its not a myth. its the caliber and ammo ur using. and its not the size of the round thats important its the type of round. if ur using a supersonic rifle bullet of course its gonna just pass thru someone. lmao. the .45 isnt supersonic its subsonic and its a big ass bullet that is made to make the most of and to hold its kinetic energy. talking almost half an inch wide and it expands to the size of a quarter once it hits its target. it doesnt stay long and cylindrical like a riffle bullet. besides if u were in the military u would understand that the 5.56 is an out dated round that needs to be replaced becuz of the stopping and penetrating power. becuz everyone knows that newer and more effective ammo exists now. not something that was designed in the late 60 and early 70s but designed in the past 5 years. except that its expensive and until they start making them in bulk for our military most people will never even know they exist. did u know that most of ur average joes dont know that hallow points are legal? most still believe that they are only available to law enforcement agencies and the military. but here is a good rule of thumb. if it holds more than 20 rounds in it our government is going to have fmj ammo in it for penetration not for stopping power even tho at a distance u need both.

i think we got way off topic. lmao.
 
wheels619

wheels619

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
What knocks people down is not energy, but momentum ( = mass x velocity). If firing a .45 doesn't even rock me back on my heels, then it'll have a similar (mild) upsetting effect on the target. A full torso hit with a 12-gauge magnum at max drams and ounces might do it, but it'll be a pushover and not a flung-sideways deal. cn
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the reason u fire ur .45 so easily is becuz its semi automatic and the slide and action is made to reduce the recoil. have u ever fired a 1911 with the slide locked forward so that the shell doesnt eject. guarantee it will be a pain to hold onto. had mine malfunction when the guide rod snapped and the fucker almost flew out of my hands.

and the flung across the room is bullshit i never said it would do that. i simply stated it would knock u on ur ass i never said how.
 
H

hmmmmm.....

Member
because police are indoctrinated like a school, and its bullshit, they are the real thugs helpin thugs being payed for by workers
its bullshit and there is nothing you can do about it, go have a peaceful protest im sure the police will show up with weapons
doesnt even matter if your an everyday worker.
police are corrupted as fuck do drugs more cocaine cause its out their systems faster (from a met police officers mouth england)
i tell you this the only ones who are not corrupt are moral citizens
police dont abide by the law they think they are it!! how great is that fucking chumped up fuck heads who will quote a database system to give you a ticket for running a red light
then you have the real challenge of meeting the fuck wit lawyers who are indoctrinated and understand how to manipulate the law...thats when the shit hits the fan
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
wheels619 said:
the reason u fire ur .45 so easily is becuz its semi automatic and the slide and action is made to reduce the recoil. have u ever fired a 1911 with the slide locked forward so that the shell doesnt eject. guarantee it will be a pain to hold onto. had mine malfunction when the guide rod snapped and the fucker almost flew out of my hands.
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I've fired the .45 ACP from the 1911 and a revolver of equal weight and barrel length, which effectively duplicates firing a 1911 with a stuck slide. I found perceived recoil to be the same. However perceived recoil is again a consequence of energy (it's quoted in foot-pounds), but the amount of impulse (pound-seconds) determines the momentum transferred to the shooter, and the shot one.
For example: A .45 bullet (230 grains, 850 fps) has almost the same momentum as, say, a bullet from a 6mm PPC (60 grains, 3400 fps). The rifle bullet however has fourfold the energy because of the velocity-squared term. If you struck a soda bottle with either, the center of mass of the composite would move back at the same rate. However, after the .45 it would be a bottle with two holes, spewing soda ... after the rifle hit, it would be a cloud of soda with shards of plastic in and around it. the difference was all the extra energy the rifle bullet dumped (I'm specing a varmint bullet that will disintegrate in four inches of watery liquid).

Wanna have some real fun? Fire a truly heavy revolver, like a .454 or a .475 Linebaugh. ;) cn
 
wheels619

wheels619

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I've fired the .45 ACP from the 1911 and a revolver of equal weight and barrel length, which effectively duplicates firing a 1911 with a stuck slide. I found perceived recoil to be the same. However perceived recoil is again a consequence of energy (it's quoted in foot-pounds), but the amount of impulse (pound-seconds) determines the momentum transferred to the shooter, and the shot one.
For example: A .45 bullet (230 grains, 850 fps) has almost the same momentum as, say, a bullet from a 6mm PPC (60 grains, 3400 fps). The rifle bullet however has fourfold the energy because of the velocity-squared term. If you struck a soda bottle with either, the center of mass of the composite would move back at the same rate. However, after the .45 it would be a bottle with two holes, spewing soda ... after the rifle hit, it would be a cloud of soda with shards of plastic in and around it. the difference was all the extra energy the rifle bullet dumped (I'm specing a varmint bullet that will disintegrate in four inches of watery liquid).

Wanna have some real fun? Fire a truly heavy revolver, like a .454 or a .475 Linebaugh. ;) cn
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i have the .454 but ammo cost to much for it now and days. :( was looking into the 460 but its still a million dollars for ammo and i dont reload for the 454 cuz i dont use it often enough. i love the varment grenades i load in my .223. makes rabbits and ground squirrels explode on contact. :) lmao.

had a rabbit in 4 pieces once. was interesting cuz i didnt find all of it.
 
M

mcrandle

New Member
dank smoker420 said:
why wouldnt a cop shoot to disarm if there if is not a gun in the "criminals" hands.
the local police here are trained to shoot at the chest and fire three shots.
cops are becoming trigger happy. shooting people over marijuana raids, and wrong house raids
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Cops have the same trigger-happiness they had in the 1800's. Only difference now, is the criminals these days have better weapons and are even more trigger-happy. These degenerates now a days shoot someone for a pair of Nike's. OF COURSE THE COPS ARE GONNA MATCH THAT AGGRESSION. I see nothing wrong with it. I say more cops and less thugs. If thugs ran this world, what the fuck kind of lawless, atheistic, murderously-violent society do think it would be?
 
wheels619

wheels619

Well-Known Member
mcrandle said:
Cops have the same trigger-happiness they had in the 1800's. Only difference now, is the criminals these days have better weapons and are even more trigger-happy. These degenerates now a days shoot someone for a pair of Nike's. OF COURSE THE COPS ARE GONNA MATCH THAT AGGRESSION. I see nothing wrong with it. I say more cops and less thugs. If thugs ran this world, what the fuck kind of lawless, atheistic, murderously-violent society do think it would be?
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its called america. what do u think obama is? lmao. hes nothing but the thug leader. lmao. have u seen whats been going on with our gov lately? no wonder everyone hates america we cant even govern ourselves, yet we try to teach everyone else how to do it.
 
G

Gyroscope

Well-Known Member
I saw a guy get knocked back at a party by a modified shot. We were at a friends years ago when he gets out a couple of BB pistols to shoot bottles in the fireplace. Everyone was taking turns and having a good time, but this one asshole that someone brought over shot a few nice things he wasn't supposed to. A few minutes later I went to take a leak and coming back through the house I see my friends are up to something in one of the back rooms and they tell me to stand clear of the asshole because he is going to learn a lesson. Soon after this my friend busts into the room with a double barrel 12g shotgun and draws it on the asshole. A girls starts screaming,"He's going to kill him !" So he shoots the guy with both barrels and the guy looks like he was going to die, but after a few minutes of shaking he got up and left. My friend had taken the shot out of the shells and replaced it with a home made slug of magazine paper. We never saw the guy again......GOOD TIMES.

PS...He did not fly accoss the room, lol.
 
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