Debt Ceiling and Shutdown talk coincides with...
- Thread starter abandonconflict
- Start date
HGCC
Well-Known Member
Ok, so what happens if you don't pay vs what happens if the US government doesn't pay?Next time I charge a bunch of grow equipment on my credit card I'm just gonna tell my wife the debt doesn't matter,
Government debt works differently than personal debt.
So if you don't pay your credit card bill, they use that government violence that robroy is so fond of talking about. They take your stuff, garnish wages, etc., using the backing of the state to enforce it. Do you think something similar happens on debt held by the government? Who has the power to enforce those debts against our government?
That's kind of aside from the point though, we have the ability to just produce money to meet the obligation. If you owe 10 trillion dollars you can just print it off and say here you go.
The explanation for why we could keep on with the Iraq war and just fund it indefinitely was where I got the idea.
Last edited:
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
You will own nothing and be happy. Does that ring a bell?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I am a little disappointed you fail to see the connection between them.
I will go and feed my chickens now and seek their input on trillion dollar interest payments and the end result of fiat currency.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
See thread title.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
The Party That’s Actually Best for the Economy
Many analyses look at which party is best for the economy. A study from the National Bureau of Economic Research found that Democratic presidents since World War II have performed much better than Republicans. On average, Democratic presidents grew the economy by 4.4% each year versus 2.5% for Republicans.
A study by Princeton University economists Alan Blinder and Mark Watson found that the economy performs better when the president is a Democrat. They report that “by many measures, the performance gap is startlingly large.” Between Truman and Obama, growth was 1.8% higher under Democrats than Republicans.5
A Hudson Institute study found that the six years with the best growth were evenly split between Republican and Democrat presidents.6
Most of these evaluations measure growth during the president’s term in office. But no president has control over the growth added during his first year. The budget for that fiscal year was already set by the previous president, so it's helpful to compare the gross domestic product (GDP) at the end of the president’s last budget to the end of their predecessor’s last budget.
For Obama, that would be the fiscal year from October 1, 2009, to September 30, 2018. That’s FY 2010 through FY 2017. During that time, annual GDP increased from $15.6 trillion to $17.7 trillion, or 14%.7 That’s 1.7% per year.
The chart below ranks the presidents since 1929 on the average annual increase in GDP.
The next table calculates the average annual growth for Democrats versus Republicans. Because of the Great Depression, Democrats grew the economy by 5.2% annually, while Republicans grew it by only 1.4%.
Note that Trump figures do not include 2020 data.
Since the Depression was an outlier to this dataset, it makes sense to remove both FDR’s and Hoover’s results. Not counting the Depression, Democrats gained 3.6% on average, while Republicans gained 2.8%.
Many analyses look at which party is best for the economy. A study from the National Bureau of Economic Research found that Democratic presidents since World War II have performed much better than Republicans. On average, Democratic presidents grew the economy by 4.4% each year versus 2.5% for Republicans.
A study by Princeton University economists Alan Blinder and Mark Watson found that the economy performs better when the president is a Democrat. They report that “by many measures, the performance gap is startlingly large.” Between Truman and Obama, growth was 1.8% higher under Democrats than Republicans.5
A Hudson Institute study found that the six years with the best growth were evenly split between Republican and Democrat presidents.6
Most of these evaluations measure growth during the president’s term in office. But no president has control over the growth added during his first year. The budget for that fiscal year was already set by the previous president, so it's helpful to compare the gross domestic product (GDP) at the end of the president’s last budget to the end of their predecessor’s last budget.
For Obama, that would be the fiscal year from October 1, 2009, to September 30, 2018. That’s FY 2010 through FY 2017. During that time, annual GDP increased from $15.6 trillion to $17.7 trillion, or 14%.7 That’s 1.7% per year.
The chart below ranks the presidents since 1929 on the average annual increase in GDP.
PRESIDENT | FINAL FY BUDGET | GDP (IN BILLIONS) | ADDED TO GDP | % INCREASE | ANNUAL AVERAGE |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ROOSEVELT | 1945 | $2,352 | $1,524 | 184% | 15.3% |
| LBJ | 1969 | $4,792 | $1,089 | 29% | 5.9% |
| JFK | 1964 | $3,703 | $443 | 14% | 4.5% |
| CLINTON | 2001 | $13,131 | $3,446 | 36% | 4.4% |
| REAGAN | 1989 | $8,867 | $2,107 | 31% | 3.9% |
| NIXON | 1974 | $5,687 | $895 | 19% | 3.7% |
| CARTER | 1981 | $6,759 | $810 | 14% | 3.4% |
| EISENHOWER | 1961 | $3,260 | $685 | 27% | 3.3% |
| TRUMP | 2019 | $19,091 | $1,360 | 8% | 2.6% |
| GW BUSH | 2009 | $15,605 | $2,474 | 19% | 2.4% |
| GHW BUSH | 1993 | $9,685 | $818 | 9% | 2.3% |
| OBAMA | 2017 | $17,731 | $2,126 | 14% | 1.7% |
| FORD | 1977 | $5,949 | $262 | 5% | 1.5% |
| TRUMAN | 1953 | $2,575 | $223 | 9% | 1.2% |
| HOOVER | 1933 | $828 | $(282) | -25% | -8.5% |
The next table calculates the average annual growth for Democrats versus Republicans. Because of the Great Depression, Democrats grew the economy by 5.2% annually, while Republicans grew it by only 1.4%.
| PRESIDENT | DEMOCRATS | REPUBLICANS |
|---|---|---|
| Roosevelt | 15.3% | |
| LBJ | 5.9% | |
| JFK | 4.5% | |
| Clinton | 4.4% | |
| Reagan | 3.9% | |
| Nixon | 3.7% | |
| Carter | 3.4% | |
| Eisenhower | 3.3% | |
| Trump | 2.6% | |
| GW Bush | 2.4% | |
| GHW Bush | 2.3% | |
| Obama | 1.7% | |
| Ford | 1.5% | |
| Truman | 1.2% | |
| Hoover | -8.5% | |
| Total | 36.5% | 11.2% |
| Annual Average | 5.2% | 1.4% |
Since the Depression was an outlier to this dataset, it makes sense to remove both FDR’s and Hoover’s results. Not counting the Depression, Democrats gained 3.6% on average, while Republicans gained 2.8%.
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