Decriminalizing Pot Won't Help Youth, Stop Crime? There's 'A Little Baloney' In Liberal Claim

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member


OTTAWA — "It is important to understand that decriminalization does not achieve either of our objectives, which are, one, to keep marijuana out of the reach of young people and two, to take profits out of the hands of organized crime." — Michel Picard, parliamentary secretary to the minister of public safety.

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For three years, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has argued that legalizing marijuana is the best way to keep the drug away from children.

His 2015 election platform promised to legalize, regulate and restrict access to marijuana because the current prohibition against the drug is not keeping it away from children and causes too many Canadians to end up with criminal records for possessing even a small amount of pot. Legislation is expected next spring.

But last month, the New Democrats called on the Liberal government to decriminalize simple possession of small amounts marijuana until legalization comes into effect.

Attorney General Jody Wilson-Raybould said that was not on.


Health Minister Jane Philpott and Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould are shown at a news conference in Ottawa, Thursday June 30, 2016. (Photo: Adrian Wyld/CP)

“Canadians, both adults and youth, would continue to purchase a product of unknown potency and quality while fuelling the profits of organized crime," Wilson-Raybould said in the House of Commons June 13.

That is the same message Picard spoke of last week, explaining why the law remains the law and will continue to be enforced until a new law is enacted.

Does decriminalization really work against the goals of keeping marijuana out of the hands of young people and deterring organized crime?

Spoiler alert: The Canadian Press Baloney Meter is a dispassionate examination of political statements culminating in a ranking of accuracy on a scale of "no baloney" to "full of baloney" (complete methodology below).



This one earns a rating of a little baloney — the statement is mostly accurate but more information is required. Here's why.

THE FACTS

— Health Minister Jane Philpott told the United Nations in April that the Liberal government would introduce legislation to legalize marijuana in the spring of 2017.

— According to Statistics Canada, 57,314 people were charged with possession of cannabis in 2014, the most recent year for which numbers were available.

— Decriminalization of marijuana is most commonly understood to mean no arrest, jail time or criminal record for anyone caught with a small amount of the drug intended for personal use, sometimes restricted to the first offence.

— There are several jurisdictions around the world that have decriminalized, or plan to decriminalize, marijuana in one way or another, including Portugal and about 20 American states, a few of which have gone on to bring in legalization.

WHAT THE EXPERTS SAY

On the face of it, says Eugene Oscapella, the statement is accurate because decriminalizing possession does nothing to address the supply side of the equation.

"As long as your source of supply remains criminalized, then it is going to remain in the hands of criminal organizations and people who are willing to flout the law to produce the drug and sell it," said Oscapella, a lawyer who lectures on drug policy in the criminology department at the University of Ottawa.

That would include selling it to youth, he said.

The idea that decriminalization is only a "half measure" is the reason the Centre for Addictions and Mental Health (CAMH) in Toronto calls for legalization in the cannabis policy framework it released in 2014.

The policy paper concludes that while there are significant advantages to decriminalization — including keeping more people out of the criminal justice system and bringing down enforcement costs — the model does not address some of the other harms of prohibition.


A woman smokes a joint during the annual 420 marijuana rally on Parliament Hill on April 20, 2016. (Photo: Justin Tang/CP)

If marijuana is unregulated, the framework says, users will still know little about the potency or quality of the drugs they are using.

It is also harder for health care professionals to focus on prevention and it might also encourage the commercialization of cannabis production without creating the regulatory tools to mitigate those effects.

Choosing a model such as imposing fines — like the ticketing regime the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police proposed in 2013 — could also lead to unintended consequences such as casting a wider net that affects a greater number of people even if the penalty is less severe, the paper argued, and do little to improve the inequity that comes from racialized minorities being more often charged with cannabis offences.

"You're not solving the key problems of illegality, but you're also creating a whole slew of new ones that are really not helping the public health objectives," said Dr. Benedikt Fischer, a senior scientist at CAMH who helped develop the framework.

'It's a silly halfway house'

In a statement emailed Wednesday, Joanne Ghiz, a spokeswoman for Wilson-Raybould, cited this framework as support for the government's position.

But does the statement really serve as a complete answer to the question of why the federal government has decided not to decriminalize as one step on the path to legalization?

Not entirely, as research on other jurisdictions that have decriminalized the drug did not find a huge or lasting impact on usage rates.

A study published in the Journal of Public Health Policy in 2000, for example, looked at the impact of decriminalization measures in Australia and the United States — where a number of states decriminalized possession of the drug in the 1970s.

"The available data indicate that these decriminalization measures substantially reduced enforcement costs, yet had little or no impact on rates of use," said the article, referencing statewide evaluations in Oregon, Maine, Ohio and California.

Harvard economics professor Jeffrey Miron, who thinks all drugs should be legalized, said decriminalization would do little to exacerbate the problems the Liberal government is trying to solve with the legalization of cannabis.

"There is no good reason to avoid decrim(inalization) as a short-term measure," said Miron, who is also director of economic studies at the Cato Institute, a libertarian-leaning think tank based in Washington, D.C.

"It's a silly halfway house, but it's not a harmful halfway house," he said.

THE VERDICT

The Liberal government might be right when it says that decriminalization does not do much to keep marijuana away from youth and profits away from criminals, but the statement does not do enough to explain why the government refuses to bring it in as an interim measure.

There are some who argue that decriminalization would be too much work for a such a short period of time. But others, including Oscapella, have said Wilson-Raybould could simply issue a directive under the Public Prosecutions Act ordering Crown counsel to avoid proceeding with prosecution for simple possession offences.

For that reason, Picard's statement earns a ranking of a little baloney: the statement is mostly accurate but more information is required.
 

doingdishes

Well-Known Member
so "do nothing until...." is their answer. how very smart of them.
if we tried this in our lives, we'd get it from all sides.
if we told our employer I'm not doing anything until..." you'd get the boot.
if you did that with your kids-how do you think they'd do in life?
this is just plain crazy. this breeds a culture of "don't do anything unless you have to" and that sucks. why not be proactive? if they have this stuff now, why not roll it out now? i mean that for all their stuff and not just the one i want..haha
 

8thGenFarmer

Well-Known Member


OTTAWA — "It is important to understand that decriminalization does not achieve either of our objectives, which are, one, to keep marijuana out of the reach of young people and two, to take profits out of the hands of organized crime." — Michel Picard, parliamentary secretary to the minister of public safety.

---

For three years, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has argued that legalizing marijuana is the best way to keep the drug away from children.

His 2015 election platform promised to legalize, regulate and restrict access to marijuana because the current prohibition against the drug is not keeping it away from children and causes too many Canadians to end up with criminal records for possessing even a small amount of pot. Legislation is expected next spring.

But last month, the New Democrats called on the Liberal government to decriminalize simple possession of small amounts marijuana until legalization comes into effect.

Attorney General Jody Wilson-Raybould said that was not on.


Health Minister Jane Philpott and Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould are shown at a news conference in Ottawa, Thursday June 30, 2016. (Photo: Adrian Wyld/CP)

“Canadians, both adults and youth, would continue to purchase a product of unknown potency and quality while fuelling the profits of organized crime," Wilson-Raybould said in the House of Commons June 13.

That is the same message Picard spoke of last week, explaining why the law remains the law and will continue to be enforced until a new law is enacted.

Does decriminalization really work against the goals of keeping marijuana out of the hands of young people and deterring organized crime?

Spoiler alert: The Canadian Press Baloney Meter is a dispassionate examination of political statements culminating in a ranking of accuracy on a scale of "no baloney" to "full of baloney" (complete methodology below).



This one earns a rating of a little baloney — the statement is mostly accurate but more information is required. Here's why.

THE FACTS

— Health Minister Jane Philpott told the United Nations in April that the Liberal government would introduce legislation to legalize marijuana in the spring of 2017.

— According to Statistics Canada, 57,314 people were charged with possession of cannabis in 2014, the most recent year for which numbers were available.

— Decriminalization of marijuana is most commonly understood to mean no arrest, jail time or criminal record for anyone caught with a small amount of the drug intended for personal use, sometimes restricted to the first offence.

— There are several jurisdictions around the world that have decriminalized, or plan to decriminalize, marijuana in one way or another, including Portugal and about 20 American states, a few of which have gone on to bring in legalization.

WHAT THE EXPERTS SAY

On the face of it, says Eugene Oscapella, the statement is accurate because decriminalizing possession does nothing to address the supply side of the equation.

"As long as your source of supply remains criminalized, then it is going to remain in the hands of criminal organizations and people who are willing to flout the law to produce the drug and sell it," said Oscapella, a lawyer who lectures on drug policy in the criminology department at the University of Ottawa.

That would include selling it to youth, he said.

The idea that decriminalization is only a "half measure" is the reason the Centre for Addictions and Mental Health (CAMH) in Toronto calls for legalization in the cannabis policy framework it released in 2014.

The policy paper concludes that while there are significant advantages to decriminalization — including keeping more people out of the criminal justice system and bringing down enforcement costs — the model does not address some of the other harms of prohibition.


A woman smokes a joint during the annual 420 marijuana rally on Parliament Hill on April 20, 2016. (Photo: Justin Tang/CP)

If marijuana is unregulated, the framework says, users will still know little about the potency or quality of the drugs they are using.

It is also harder for health care professionals to focus on prevention and it might also encourage the commercialization of cannabis production without creating the regulatory tools to mitigate those effects.

Choosing a model such as imposing fines — like the ticketing regime the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police proposed in 2013 — could also lead to unintended consequences such as casting a wider net that affects a greater number of people even if the penalty is less severe, the paper argued, and do little to improve the inequity that comes from racialized minorities being more often charged with cannabis offences.

"You're not solving the key problems of illegality, but you're also creating a whole slew of new ones that are really not helping the public health objectives," said Dr. Benedikt Fischer, a senior scientist at CAMH who helped develop the framework.

'It's a silly halfway house'

In a statement emailed Wednesday, Joanne Ghiz, a spokeswoman for Wilson-Raybould, cited this framework as support for the government's position.

But does the statement really serve as a complete answer to the question of why the federal government has decided not to decriminalize as one step on the path to legalization?

Not entirely, as research on other jurisdictions that have decriminalized the drug did not find a huge or lasting impact on usage rates.

A study published in the Journal of Public Health Policy in 2000, for example, looked at the impact of decriminalization measures in Australia and the United States — where a number of states decriminalized possession of the drug in the 1970s.

"The available data indicate that these decriminalization measures substantially reduced enforcement costs, yet had little or no impact on rates of use," said the article, referencing statewide evaluations in Oregon, Maine, Ohio and California.

Harvard economics professor Jeffrey Miron, who thinks all drugs should be legalized, said decriminalization would do little to exacerbate the problems the Liberal government is trying to solve with the legalization of cannabis.

"There is no good reason to avoid decrim(inalization) as a short-term measure," said Miron, who is also director of economic studies at the Cato Institute, a libertarian-leaning think tank based in Washington, D.C.

"It's a silly halfway house, but it's not a harmful halfway house," he said.

THE VERDICT

The Liberal government might be right when it says that decriminalization does not do much to keep marijuana away from youth and profits away from criminals, but the statement does not do enough to explain why the government refuses to bring it in as an interim measure.

There are some who argue that decriminalization would be too much work for a such a short period of time. But others, including Oscapella, have said Wilson-Raybould could simply issue a directive under the Public Prosecutions Act ordering Crown counsel to avoid proceeding with prosecution for simple possession offences.

For that reason, Picard's statement earns a ranking of a little baloney: the statement is mostly accurate but more information is required.

"There are some who argue that decriminalization would be too much work for a such a short period of time."

I love the whole it's too much work to not arrest people argument. Lol.
 

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
"There are some who argue that decriminalization would be too much work for a such a short period of time."

I love the whole it's too much work to not arrest people argument. Lol.
Well...i guess they would have to form a comittee to form a task force to do some public inquiry before they wrote a discussion paper to come up with a policy on how to tell the cops to stop arresting people with x grams or less.

Seems kind of exhaustive...lol
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
It'll be a VERY LONG DRAWN OUT PROCESS!!!
You can guarantee that much!!

and


It'll be done all wrong from the get go ;)
Everyone has to have a shot at fucking this one up eh?!?!?! From one moron to the next idiot ......
Its business..that HAS TO STAY so if they fuck it up along the way..WHO CARES>>> Not you if you are making hand over fist..Only if you are sick will you feel the hardship of this wanna be get rich scheme
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
tell me you're kidding ...about the whiskey feature in Parks Canada?
I wouldn't lie to you, buddy! No doubt supported by your taxes. Wait until cannabis is legal and someone wants to host a Cannabis Cup event in a national park.



July 1, 2011 editorial cartoon in the Globe and Mail.

Brian Gable / The Globe and Mail / The Canadian Press

A A

What better way to honour Sir John A Macdonald – Canada’s notoriously hard-drinking first prime minister – than a whisky tasting? Parks Canada is on board. The federal agency is inviting people to explore fine whisky and food pairings at Macdonald’s former Kingston home this weekend.


“Ever wanted to grab a drink with Sir John A. Macdonald?” asks the press release from Parks Canada. “Experience the next best thing with a whisky tasting at Bellevue House National Historic Site, Macdonald’s 19th century home.”

Amateur Canadian historians might find raising a glass to Macdonald a highly appropriate way to remember the man – he’s noted not just for his political accomplishments, but also for his love of the bottle.

Macdonald’s fondness for liquor has been well-documented, though historian Ged Martin characterizes it less as “alcoholism” and more as “binge-drinking” in his academic review “John A. Macdonald and the Bottle.” Why? He wasn’t constantly drunk, he was just known for extreme binges.

WATCH: Canadian Heritage Minute featuring Macdonald highlights alcohol along with Confederation

But some of those binges made for great stories.

One of the most famous stories has a visibly inebriated Macdonald take the stage during an election debate, likely during a January 1864 by-election. He shocked the audience by vomiting on stage mid-debate.

“Is this the man you want running your country?” asked his opponent. “A drunk?”

“I get sick (…) not because of drink [but because] I am forced to listen to the ranting of my honourable opponent,” Macdonald retorted, according to the story.


An 1873 political cartoon shows Sir John A. Macdonald with a bottle hanging out of his pocket.

Sir John A. Macdonald library
Macdonald’s drinking sometimes had political consequences. He was drunk during the Fenian raid of 1866, when he was acting as minister of militia and defence – too wasted to answer telegrams, according to allegations in the Globe newspaper a few years later.

A Militia bill introduced in 1862 to undertake an overhaul of Canada’s defences failed in part because Macdonald was suffering “one of his old attacks” during crucial debates.

He also occasionally got violent: the Daily British Whig newspaper reported him slapping his opponent’s face at a campaign event in 1872. His campaign manager, Alexander Campbell, said that throughout the election, Macdonald “kept himself more or less under the influence of wine” and so had “no clear recollection of what he did on many occasions,” according to Martin’s article.

READ MORE: ‘I’ll smack your chops’, a history of Canadian politicians behaving badly

And sometimes he injured himself: he once set fire to his hotel bed while staying in London and suffered extensive burns.

After suffering from severe digestive problems later in his life, possibly related to his drinking, Macdonald’s episodes became fewer and he became fonder of milk than alcohol. But it’s worth noting, as Martin does, that his most remarkable political achievements happened around his heaviest drinking years – a testament to his political ability. “Canadians had good reason to prefer John A. drunk to anyone else sober,” he wrote.
 

jafro daweedhound

Well-Known Member
And now in other news... Parks Canada is hosting an event featuring wiskey, every politician's favorite drug. I'm writing a letter to them now telling them how irresponsible, and unethical it is for a government body to promote an addictive drug that causes billions in societal harms while still prosecuting possession and use of cannabis.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2819245/sir-john-a-macdonald-notorious-drinker-honoured-with-kingston-whiskey-tasting/
Your da MAN bongsmilie:clap:
 

doingdishes

Well-Known Member
the US founding fathers (at least Sam Adams) wanted a federal beer agency...or something like that. booze was huge in the beginning of both our countries.
right now i can't think of the right name.

here's a funny-the town of Vegreville Alberta has a large Ukrainian population so why does it have a French name...i heard that they wanted to call it Kiev II (Kiev being the capitol of Ukraine) but the people who were getting the paperwork signed to name the city got them all drunk and they signed on to name it Vegreville without reading what they signed.

there's some useless trivia...
 
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