Democrats and Republicans Are Quietly Planning a Corporate Giveaway — to the Tune of $400 Billion

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
How much stock dividends do you think the average wal mart worker receives every quarter?
Every Walmart worker would get 100% of their paycheck to spend as they wanted. Any stock investments would be 100% tax free until they cashed them out and bought something with them.

The same as everyone else.

I am willing to bet a Walmart worker knows much better how to spend his paycheck than having the government dip into it before he even sees it.
 
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ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Every Walmart worker would get 100% of their paycheck to spend as they wanted. Any stock investments would be 100% tax free until they cashed them out and bought something with them.

The same as everyone else.

I am willing to bet a Walmart worker knows much better how to spend his paycheck than having the government dip into it before he even sees it.
Totally missed the point.
Every flat tax scamnario that has been mentioned doesn't tax capital gains or taxes it at a much lower rate. Do you think Trump or Romney earn a paycheck? No they get their money from capital gains. Under a flat tax they would pay much less or nothing on their income. The tax burden would shift even more on the middle and lower class.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
If a product does not exist and no one knows that it exists there cannot be demand. Just to keep to the example of jazz...

Idk when it came on, let's say 1920. The people of 1919 would have liked jazz, but you can't say there was demand for it becuase no one knew it existed. It took someone developing jazz, and then influencing others who made their own jazz. As more and more people heard thus jazz the demand for it emerged.

Now, this isn't like pizza. Everyone knows pizza exists. But say a town is out there of sufficient size with sufficient wealth to support a pizza restaurant but does not have one. If no one ever decides to spend the tens of thousands of dollars it would take to open a pizza restaurant then the town never gets its pizza. Even though there is demand for it. Someone needs to expend the money to open the store to create the jobs that satisfy demand.

I could name many succusful businesses that are now in existence that created a product or service for which there was no demand WHEN the person developed it.

When the tv first was developed people said it wouldn't work. No one had ever seen a tv. There was no demand. It took years of people improving it, developing programing for it, and all of that to create and build the demand to what it is today.

The same with radio.

Any invention that isn't just an improvement on an existing product can be said to have been created before there was a demand for it.

Most often demand drives products. Occasionally a product appears and people discover they like it and the demand developes.

As to shifting the tax burden... that isn't at all what I want to do. I want to tax the poor almost nothing, the middle modestly, the rich moderately.

I also want to greatly reduce government spending.

I agree with your point about demand and unrevealed discoveries etc.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Totally missed the point.
Every flat tax scamnario that has been mentioned doesn't tax capital gains or taxes it at a much lower rate. Do you think Trump or Romney earn a paycheck? No they get their money from capital gains. Under a flat tax they would pay much less or nothing on their income. The tax burden would shift even more on the middle and lower class.
The lower class is paying no income taxes. They would continue to pay no income taxes. The middle class would get their whole paycheck to invest. This promotes business and creates economic prosperity.

Everyone would pay tax on what they bought. If a poor person bought a 60,000 house he would pay tax on it. If a rich person bought a 20,000,000 dollar house they would pay the same rate of tax and thus a much larger amount. It would actually be fair like you demand.
 

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
Youre engaging in sophistry.

This is a very complex thing, ecconomics, and you shouldn't draw conclusions so vast from two points of data.

So many other things going on.
It's simple, Russian (koch) Style Blackmail coupled with a Chinese Fire Drill (market/media distractions).

Creating history requires patients.

We were warned by our forefathers, perhaps if we had more free time with our families these warning would be handed down.

This is long and boring but points out the game, just change the names to "US Corps" when Russia/China/Communism/UN is mentioned.

Blackmail is a Terrorist Act.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
The lower class is paying no income taxes. They would continue to pay no income taxes. The middle class would get their whole paycheck to invest. This promotes business and creates economic prosperity.

Everyone would pay tax on what they bought. If a poor person bought a 60,000 house he would pay tax on it. If a rich person bought a 20,000,000 dollar house they would pay the same rate of tax and thus a much larger amount. It would actually be fair like you demand.
And the rich would pay almost nothing.

Can you say DEFICIT?
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
And the rich would pay almost nothing.

Can you say DEFICIT?
We would need significant spending cuts to the federal budget but there would be no need for a deficit. What is amusing to me is that a deficit has absolutely never been a problem for you as long as the Democrats were running it.

What confuses me is that some people are completely resistant to eliminating the IRS and having to file annual tax returns. If that happened in my lifetime it would be a miracle.
 

ThickStemz

Well-Known Member


"Business-Cycle Economists further argue that it’s important to bear in mind that in a dangerous world like ours, it’s always safer not to spend money than to spend. And so, when times are tough, people don’t take chances. They hang on to their cash. This makes recessions even more severe and is consistent with the idea that interest rates are of little concern to firms or consumers in the midst of a downturn.

Business-Cycle Economists thus see economic downturns as a much more fundamental problem than Establishment Economists and one that will not fix itself. What can we do? For one, when the private sector is too scared to spend, we can have the government do so instead. The United States was the only nation to undertake a stimulus program on the scale of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. While Business-Cycle Economists think that it could have been better planned and focused, they nevertheless see this as a major reason that our economy has recovered much more substantially than those in Europe.

Second, Business-Cycle Economists are strongly in favor of a more even income distribution, closer to what we had several decades ago. We need people to spend, not save. This means strengthening the middle class because they are the real job creators, not the wealthy. This will in turn make recessions less frequent and less severe.

Third, they view the current level of competition in the non-financial and especially financial industries as inadequate. Under capitalism, the ideal is what economists call consumer sovereignty. What that means is that firms are so competitive with each other that they are forced to please their customers or die. Consumers become the sovereigns, so to speak. But, since the relaxation of antitrust regulations in the 1980s, we have been witness to increasing levels of monopolization. This has shifted the balance of power away from those who should really be determining the direction of our economy, i.e., the consumers, and it has created an anti-democratic concentration of power. This trend must be reversed if we are to create a healthy and profitable environment for consumers and entrepreneurs."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2016/02/22/evaluating-the-evaluators/3/#1cda71ff204b
I'm not supprised you found someone toeing that line in an article that supports keynsian ecconomics. It's also amazing the contradictions in that post with a lot of other things left wing folks in America say.

How often have we heard that even though European countries have massive social spending they have vibrant economies... but here the article truly points out that Europe is struggling. It was necessary to do so because they didn't do massive stimulus programs.

But in reality many European countries are doing pretty well.

It is sufficient to say that jobs can't be created without someone to purchase the end products of production. But to act like that is all that is required is simply sophistry. If not for the 1%, fewer jobs would be created becuase the middle class doesn't have the money it would take to invest in the start up costs of many major employers. Look at the top employers in any town or city. Starting that up is always beyond the means of the middle class
 

Not GOP

Well-Known Member
So you support this deal, but you don't think the democratic proposal (22%) goes far enough?

Why don't you support eliminating the tax entirely, 0%, like the republicans are proposing?
I haven't heard any mention of a 0% tax. I may be in favor of that, depending on who was managing it. If the tax were zero, it wouldn't be the IRS.

22% tax won't be able to bring a lot of money in the country. Unless, perhaps if corporate taxes were not the highest in the world, and also lower the capital gains tax
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
The lower class is paying no income taxes. They would continue to pay no income taxes. The middle class would get their whole paycheck to invest. This promotes business and creates economic prosperity.

Everyone would pay tax on what they bought. If a poor person bought a 60,000 house he would pay tax on it. If a rich person bought a 20,000,000 dollar house they would pay the same rate of tax and thus a much larger amount. It would actually be fair like you demand.
you are retarded.

someone working at walmart spends almost 100% of what they make in a year. 100% of their income would be taxed at whatever rate a retard like you is envisioning, say 20%. that means the poor would pay 20% of their income in taxes.

a wealthy person spends nowhere near 100% of their income every year. at most, they might spend about 20% of it, and that would be taxed at 20%. so they would have a 4% tax burden, while the poor would have a 20% tax burden,

the fact that you are poor as shit and have to take out loans to pay for personal living expenses means you would be the one taxed at a higher rate, but i don't expect you to understand how stupid your own ideas are.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I'm not supprised you found someone toeing that line in an article that supports keynsian ecconomics. It's also amazing the contradictions in that post with a lot of other things left wing folks in America say.

How often have we heard that even though European countries have massive social spending they have vibrant economies... but here the article truly points out that Europe is struggling. It was necessary to do so because they didn't do massive stimulus programs.

But in reality many European countries are doing pretty well.

It is sufficient to say that jobs can't be created without someone to purchase the end products of production. But to act like that is all that is required is simply sophistry. If not for the 1%, fewer jobs would be created becuase the middle class doesn't have the money it would take to invest in the start up costs of many major employers. Look at the top employers in any town or city. Starting that up is always beyond the means of the middle class
I'm not going to continue to argue with someone who refuses to acknowledge reality

Have a good day
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to continue to argue with someone who refuses to acknowledge reality

Have a good day
I just had a conversation with someone who described themselves as conservative, thought that Bernie Sanders is a socialist and would be bad for the country and felt that the government spent too much money on social programs.

After a half hour over lunch with me (sammys at The Colorado Room! Holy cow, not your average sliders- Gotta try them!), they realized that our national debt is due to corporate welfare and defense overspending, understood that the modern republican party is now ideologically radical in policy and outlook and listened carefully to my assertions that Mrs Clinton's campaign funding comes from many of the same corporations (Monsanto!) that fund the republican presidential candidates.

I'm not certain, but I believe I may have changed their mind. I've certainly planted more than my fair share of beans o' doubtness...

Good political deed for the day, done! For every one who won't listen, there is another who will, if approached with respect, carefully and thoughtfully consider our liberal (actually, centrist) views.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I just had a conversation with someone who described themselves as conservative, thought that Bernie Sanders is a socialist and would be bad for the country and felt that the government spent too much money on social programs.

After a half hour over lunch with me (sammys at The Colorado Room! Holy cow, not your average sliders- Gotta try them!), they realized that our national debt is due to corporate welfare and defense overspending, understood that the modern republican party is now ideologically radical in policy and outlook and listened carefully to my assertions that Mrs Clinton's campaign funding comes from many of the same corporations (Monsanto!) that fund the republican presidential candidates.

I'm not certain, but I believe I may have changed their mind. I've certainly planted more than my fair share of beans o' doubtness...

Good political deed for the day, done! For every one who won't listen, there is another who will, if approached with respect, carefully and thoughtfully consider our liberal (actually, centrist) views.
I wish I were afforded the same respect your friend gave to you. It begins to feel very one sided when I provide objective evidence to back up the things I'm saying and it's countered with anecdotes and political bias. But I agree with you, and the fight continues..
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I wish I were afforded the same respect your friend gave to you. It begins to feel very one sided when I provide objective evidence to back up the things I'm saying and it's countered with anecdotes and political bias. But I agree with you, and the fight continues..
It's the 80/20 rule at work; twenty percent of the effort, applied correctly, is generally successful at getting 80% of one's total results.

At some point, one learns that the last twenty percent are almost never worth all the excess effort.

I appreciate your effort, due diligence and research and I shamelessly plagiarize from your posts every chance I get, including today. :D

It's only a fight if I lose the conversation to homilies and slogans. I think most of our population knows there's a problem and both extreme left and right are beginning to triangulate on the proximate causes.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I haven't heard any mention of a 0% tax. I may be in favor of that, depending on who was managing it. If the tax were zero, it wouldn't be the IRS.

22% tax won't be able to bring a lot of money in the country. Unless, perhaps if corporate taxes were not the highest in the world, and also lower the capital gains tax
Why do you continue to support regressive tax codes when you've been repeatedly shown the opposite grows the economy faster when in recessions/depressions?
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
....even to his own detriment, because I'm willing to bet he's in an adversely affected tax bracket.
Of course he is, most Americans are which makes even less sense.. That thread by bearkat he posted earlier 'I was poor, but a GOP die-hard: How I finally left the politics of shame' shows a good example of that kind of mindset. It took that guy until he was in his 40s to figure out who was actually screwing him. It's kind of ironic these guys rally against the government, but only when it's blue... They blame one side of the establishment and not the structure that it's all built on

The only reason I support democrats more than republicans is because they're clearly the better party when it comes to social issues. When it comes to things like defense spending - the private prison industry - the war on drugs or campaign finance reform and banking regulation, the democrats are just as bad as the republicans. They're a fraction better on things like taxes, but still very much influenced by neoclassical economics. Actual progressive economic policy is called "socialism" in the US, and old white republicans are terrified of it!
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Of course he is, most Americans are which makes even less sense.. That thread by bearkat he posted earlier 'I was poor, but a GOP die-hard: How I finally left the politics of shame' shows a good example of that kind of mindset. It took that guy until he was in his 40s to figure out who was actually screwing him. It's kind of ironic these guys rally against the government, but only when it's blue... They blame one side of the establishment and not the structure that it's all built on

The only reason I support democrats more than republicans is because they're clearly the better party when it comes to social issues. When it comes to things like defense spending - the private prison industry - the war on drugs or campaign finance reform and banking regulation, the democrats are just as bad as the republicans. They're a fraction better on things like taxes, but still very much influenced by neoclassical economics. Actual progressive economic policy is called "socialism" in the US, and old white republicans are terrified of it!
Then they need to be voted out of office. If it takes a revolution to restore citizen democracy in this country, then that's what it takes.
 

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
The later hasn't been exercised years, It's a shame we don't use some of theses new hi tech laws to insure
the public domain, remains OUR domain.
If we only had better lawyers.
 
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