DiY LED - Cree XPE XTE XML2 - Luxeon ES - Oslon SSL

The way I see it 3000K CXA COBs may be slightly lacking in blue and very lacking in deep red. However, the 3000K spectrum looks like an improvement over HPS so for simplicity sake I am just staggering the RWB modules with the COB modules. You could design a module that combines COB with deep reds and a few deep blue. I might give that a shot a some point so I can upgrade from 3000K XTE to COB.

I wish i knew more about LEDs! ive got some cobs runnin now and it would be a fun and pretty easy DIY compared to wiring 2-4 dozen individual LEDs.

budbro, you should just ask about which individual LED's you're thinking of using. I'm sure the DIY'ers here would suggest an appropriate driver if you give an estimate of which LED's you want to string together. It's not that hard once you get your head wrapped around it...

Ya when it comes down to it, wiring up a few dozen LEDs can actually be fun. But when you get into the hundreds not so much. Especially if you are sanding down the stars first. I did 400W of that and have another 200W to do that I have been procrastinating for many months.

COBs on the other hand I don't even bother sitting down at the bench when I am soldering them. I did 300W of those in just a few hours. Power sanded the heatsinks in one evening. Wiring the driver boards and grow room can be tedious but that is the same whether COB or RWB.

Hahah no, it would take alot of learning on my part and my learning centers are a bit overloaded for the time being. Im curious what do you think (supra) would it cost to build an sgs 160 equivalent? I imagine itd be about the same if not more if you cant get bulk discounts, but idk on this stuff so please do tell if its not asking too much!

Very good question and I am curious about that also. The SGS-160 is mostly neutral white with a touch of 630nm red so the spectrum is decent although obviously completely devoid of deep red.

According to Scotch089 testing the heatsinks are no higher than 90f so that means Tj should be reasonable.

SGS-160 - I am assuming these to bins (highly unlikely IMO)
The XPG 4500K R4 bin @ 700mA Tj 50C = 2.1W - 34%
The XPE 630nm red P3 bin @ 600mA Tj 50C = 1.3W 42%

725mA for 48 whites = 101W = 34.34W PAR
610mA for 24 reds = 31W = 13W PAR
total 132W dissipation = 47.36W PAR

calculated another way:
155W input power
-3W fan power
-22W driver losses
=about 130W dissipation

$525 = $4/W

average efficiency of the lamp if top bins P3 and R4 = 47W/132W = 36%
average efficiency of the lamp if mid bins N4 and R2 = 41.3W/132W = 31%

So based on that info, 100W of diy LED should equal an A51 SGS-160 IMO.

You could build a 90W RWB passive cooled lamp for about $3.25/W

Heatsink 60" = $70 (customhydronutrients)
(or $100 Heatsink USA (3) 4"X10.08")
Drivers X 3 = $18 (fasttech)
(12) Cree XM-L2 7a3 3150K T4 = $72.36 (Aliexpress)
(6) Luxeon ES deep blue M4R = $18 (Steves LEDs)
(24 ) Luxeon ES deep red EX6 = $82 (Steves LEDs)
(12) Cree XPE 630nm red P3 = $47 (ledgroupbuy)
shipping steves LEDs $4
-------------------------
Total parts cost $311 shipped

For active cooling it could be done more cheaply but on the other hand you lose the ability to spread the light over the canopy and keep the modules in tight.

SupraSPL said:

So based on that info, 100W of diy LED should equal an A51 SGS-160 IMO.

You could build a 100W RWB lamp for about $3/W.

Heatsinks
drivers X3 $18 (fasttech)
XM-L2 T4 7A4 3000K X 5 $24 (aliexpress)
Luxeon ES deep red EX6 (Steves LEDs)

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Great analysis Supra! This should really help a lot of folks who are on the fence about DIY make their choices easier.

When more people can clearly see the markups on pre-made panels, we'll begin to see a strong surge in DIYers. This is great for the market as it will likely result in lower component price and a wider variety of chip options. Should also drive pre-made panel prices down as well.

THNX Gaius. It is a work in progress. I know we can build a small 37W COB for about $2/W so that is the most accessible DiY LED, but when it comes to RWB we need more space on the heatsink. Heatsink USA can do flat rate shipping boxes for 4 big heatsinks it works out to about $175 and you could install 100W on each with active cooling. So I am looking around for a smaller option that is still a good value.

Customhydronutrients heatsinks might be a good option I have to check on their shipping costs.

What about 2-3 stars on CPU heatsinks like I used on the Battlestar? There a way to do a 12 volt solution that'd just be powered directly from a PC PSU?

Yes that would work but we would have to add a DC DC constant current driver because the variety of chips means a variety of vFs on the string. Luckily we have a very efficient solution the $6 fasttech 650mA driver.

32W module look like this:
(4) Cree XM-L2 7a43150K T4
(2) Luxeon ES deep blue M4R
(8 ) Luxeon ES deep red EX6
(4) Cree XPE 630nm red P3

That would give us about 30W and 88% efficiency for the driver. The module would be about 42% efficient. The lamp would be 20% blue.

So to match an A51 SGS160 just scale it up by 3X.

SupraSPL said:

Yes that would work but we would have to add a DC DC constant current driver because the variety of chips means a variety of vFs on the string. Luckily we have a very efficient solution the $6 fasttech 650mA driver.

32W module look like this:
(4) Cree XM-L2 7a43150K T4
(2) Luxeon ES deep blue M4R
(8 ) Luxeon ES deep red EX6
(4) Cree XPE 630nm red P3

That would give us about 32W and 88% efficiency for the driver. The module would be about 42% efficient. The lamp would be 20% blue.

So to match an A51 SGS160 just scale it up by 3X.

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Correct me if I am wrong....is this formula less blue than the SGS or simply as close as you could compare? Seems like your personal opinion is too much blue, which is fine, just wondered if this formula of diodes reflected that. If not, could you break your own lights down into a functional format like this @ around 30-40 watts..?

Thank you for info, the other day too on the driver question!

SupraSPL said:

Yes that would work but we would have to add a DC DC constant current driver because the variety of chips means a variety of vFs on the string. Luckily we have a very efficient solution the $6 fasttech 650mA driver.

32W module look like this:
(4) Cree XM-L2 7a43150K T4
(2) Luxeon ES deep blue M4R
(8 ) Luxeon ES deep red EX6
(4) Cree XPE 630nm red P3

That would give us about 32W and 88% efficiency for the driver. The module would be about 42% efficient. The lamp would be 20% blue.

So to match an A51 SGS160 just scale it up by 3X.

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How many of those could you run off of one power supply? Antec makes a nice line of platinum rated PSU's.

Don't know if this would be applicable but possibly worth mentioning.

http://coralux.net/?wpsc-product=ldd-5-driver-board

Good catch abiqua. We dont have the exact calculus on the XPG 4500K curve but I approximate it to be 28% blue. After running the calculation, that makes the SGS160 about 20% blue which is ideal.

KNNAs recommendation is 15-20% blue and from what I have seen I agree with that figure. You are correct the formula I posted adjusted the blue to about 20% and you could go lower and still get good results.

bicit I suspect even with highly efficient 12V DC power supplies it is still more efficient (and much cheaper) to use an AC DC constant current driver like this. The 30W formula I posted is good for 1 of those drivers.

SupraSPL said:

bicit I suspect even with highly efficient 12V DC power supplies it is still more efficient (and much cheaper) to use an AC DC constant current driver like this. The 30W formula I posted is good for 1 of those drivers.

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I think I missed something. How can you power 30watts of LED's with a 20 watt driver?

Supra goes for efficiency, so he generally runs them kinda light.

Gaius said:

Supra goes for efficiency, so he generally runs them kinda light.

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Oh so it's 30 watts worth of LED but actual power draw will be around 20 watts then?

The drivers max out at about 50vF and will push about 620mA at that level, so if the driver were maxed the LED dissipation would be about 31W.

With the formula I gave, the string should be about 45vF and the driver should push 625mA. So LED dissipation would be about 28W.

Of course each driver is slightly different in terms of how much current they will put out and each LED will differ slightly in terms of vF. The drivers are not strictly regulated which I think contributes to their relatively high efficiency.

SupraSPL said:

32W module look like this:
(4) Cree XM-L2 7a43150K T4
(2) Luxeon ES deep blue M4R
(8 ) Luxeon ES deep red EX6
(4) Cree XPE 630nm red P3

Click to expand...

Could I get rid of the whites and run
(2) Luxeon ES deep blue M4R
(8 ) Luxeon ES deep red EX6
(4) Cree XPE 630nm red P3

On one string with the $6 driver from fastech? Would it be possible to drive one more additional set(V) on one driver?
(3) Luxeon ES deep blue M4R
(12 ) Luxeon ES deep red EX6
(6) Cree XPE 630nm red P3

Any thoughts on adding some far red into the mix?
http://shop.stevesleds.com/EpiLEDs-Hyper-Far-Red-3-Watt-LEDs-EpiFR3W.htm