Dr. Bruce Bugbee method: NASA technique on Mars etc.

Vizzaro said:

I appreciate your comment on Dr. Bugbees "Method" for growing cannabis. As I mentioned earlier I am growing my plants in media I made based on Dr. Bugbees formula. But unfortunately I am running into problems.

I am getting some yellowing on my plants. I suspect it was calcium deficiency. Also I may have stunted 2 of my younger plants due to transplant shock. It was hard for me to get them out of their small starting container I used (I won't be using those again). After I placed them in their new containers and fertigated them I noted the leaves just flopped down after that and they have not bounced back. The bottom leaves turned yellow super fast and then just dried up.

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It is common for the seed leaves to yellow and fall off, so i wouldn't worry that much and see how the plants are developing. Just be careful to not over water those young plants. Let the pots get a bit dry between the feedings the first times so the substrate doesn't stay wet all the time. Have you checked the ph of the substrate a few days after mixing?

JonCreighton said:

ya its quite difficult in the hydro... im trying to make the mixes w half the nitrogen and supply the other half of the nitrogen via nitric acid w a ph controller... even w the passive uptake in calcium its hard to get the amount of calcium u need into the mix without adding too much nitrogen... by that i mean if u were to use calcium nitrate for ur calcium and u need lets say 20% calcium... ur already at like 15% nitrogen... and the nitric acid needed for ph might push u over where u want to be for N. calcium chloride helps but i tread lightly w the chloride... im not really sure what a toxic ppm level of chloride is (iv read a lot of different opinions, some up to 150 ppm/g) and im not really sure how quickly it is absored from the solution so im worried about accumulation. do u know either of those things by chance? becuase i can only get the mixes down to about 2/3 nitrogen in the mix and 1/3 in the ph control iv been adding 1/3 of the phosporus via phosporic acid in the ph control and that has been working fine

its a cool paper to read and grasp...i just dont have the infastructure to be changing out my circulating solutons weekly or even bi weekly... i broke out the starter, veg, and refill solutions from micro and millimole into ppm form (not NPK) and posted it a few posts up if u want to save some time from haveing to do it yourself give those a peep... the way he does it is he give the start solutoin 1 time... vegatative durring veg and reprodutive mix durring what might be flower but im not 100% sure about that... it might be he carries the veg refill for most of the process and only changes to reproductive growth for the very end (last week or 2). thats just my guess and what im basically doing these days... the veg refill solutuion is very close to the 20-10-20 aswell..

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What is your target calcium concentration? I personally would not use much if any calcium chloride as fertilizers usually already contain a bit chloride as contaminants although i think it should be not much of a problem as long as you don't overdo it. Are you mixing your solution from Individual salts or do you use premixed fertilizer and amend it with calcium nitrate? And what substrate are you using if any? Tap water or r/o? Because in a limed peat based substrate there is already some calcium available. I use a self mixed and limed substrate similar to that of Dr Bugbee but with 25% vermiculite and 25% perlite instead of 50% vermiculite. I mix my nutrient solution with r/o water from individual salts (potassium nitrate, calcium nitrate, ammonium phosphate etc.) with a calcium concentration of ~70-80 ppm, and my runoff water is usually around 160-200 ppm calcium (tested with a calcium titration water test) over the course of an entire grow. So i could get away with even less calcium in the nutrient solution.

Audiofilet said:

It is common for the seed leaves to yellow and fall off, so i wouldn't worry that much and see how the plants are developing. Just be careful to not over water those young plants. Let the pots get a bit dry between the feedings the first times so the substrate doesn't stay wet all the time. Have you checked the ph of the substrate a few days after mixing?

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I have no way of testing the pH of the media as I only have a EC meter and pH meter for the water solution. I test the water pH and EC after adding the nutrients to the water. And I test the EC of the run-off to make sure it doesn't get too high. I always make sure the pots are dry/light in weight before I water again.

And as you can see one of my younger plants had it's growth stunted after transplanting. My oldest plant is starting to turn a like green and the lower part of it is yellowing. And I don't know why that is. Maybe I didn't add enough dolomite like to the mix?

I tried to follow Dr. Bugbees recipe. And 40g per cubic foot looked like a small amount of Dolomite Lime and the gypsum was even less at only 10g per cubic foot. I also purchased the wrong kind of Dolomite Lime, Dr. Bugbees uses a powder Dolomite Lime and mine looks more like tiny rocks or salt. Not sure of that plays a role in why my plants are starting to turn yellow a bit. Or maybe I'm just freaking out I'm not sure. My nutrients solution has an EC of 1.3 should I bump it up to 1.5?

I am using my tap water. It has an EC of 0.5.

Vizzaro said:

I have no way of testing the pH of the media as I only have a EC meter and pH meter for the water solution. I test the water pH and EC after adding the nutrients to the water. And I test the EC of the run-off to make sure it doesn't get too high. I always make sure the pots are dry/light in weight before I water again.

And as you can see one of my younger plants had it's growth stunted after transplanting. My oldest plant is starting to turn a like green and the lower part of it is yellowing. And I don't know why that is. Maybe I didn't add enough dolomite like to the mix?

I tried to follow Dr. Bugbees recipe. And 40g per cubic foot looked like a small amount of Dolomite Lime and the gypsum was even less at only 10g per cubic foot. I also purchased the wrong kind of Dolomite Lime, Dr. Bugbees uses a powder Dolomite Lime and mine looks more like tiny rocks or salt. Not sure of that plays a role in why my plants are starting to turn yellow a bit. Or maybe I'm just freaking out I'm not sure. My nutrients solution has an EC of 1.3 should I bump it up to 1.5?

I am using my tap water. It has an EC of 0.5.

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Yes it plays a big role if the lime is not powdered since it takes very very long for it to completely react. Longer than the few months till harvest. So it may well be that your substrate is too acidic since not enough was neutralized by the lime. I can't get powdered dolomitic lime too, so what i do is grind it with an electric coffee grinder (they are very cheap) until it is fine powdered. This works very well.
You can measure the ph of the runoff water. It does not reflect the actual ph of the root zone as precisely as a slurry test or a substrate electrode, but it will tell you an approximate value and if it is too acidic or not.
I would not up the EC. They don't need that much nutrients at this stage and maybe even never if you fertilize each time you water (constant feed). As they grow bigger they take up more water. So more water at the same EC taken up=more nutrients taken up.
So please measure your runoff PH and EC and then we will know more, if it is out of range or not and if so there are several ways to correct that. And please make sure your ph electrode is calibrated to get an accurate reading.

Audiofilet said:

Yes it plays a big role if the lime is not powdered since it takes very very long for it to completely react. Longer than the few months till harvest. So it may well be that your substrate is too acidic since not enough was neutralized by the lime. I can't get powdered dolomitic lime too, so what i do is grind it with an electric coffee grinder (they are very cheap) until it is fine powdered. This works very well.
You can measure the ph of the runoff water. It does not reflect the actual ph of the root zone as precisely as a slurry test or a substrate electrode, but it will tell you an approximate value and if it is too acidic or not.
I would not up the EC. They don't need that much nutrients at this stage and maybe even never if you fertilize each time you water (constant feed). As they grow bigger they take up more water. So more water at the same EC taken up=more nutrients taken up.
So please measure your runoff PH and EC and then we will know more, if it is out of range or not and if so there are several ways to correct that. And please make sure your ph electrode is calibrated to get an accurate reading.

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I've been thinking about how to grind my Dolomite Lime into a powder and I'll look into an electric coffee grinder. I found a place where I can buy a 25Ibs bag of powder Dolomite Lime for $7.25 and I'm thinking about buying it rather than buying a $20 grinder haha.

I tried to grind down a little bit of the Dolomite lime I have and I sprinkled a little bit on the top of my media then I fertigated my plants again. I hope that helps. I didn't test the pH run-off and I'll definitely do that next time.

Also with adding the Dolomite Lime to the media when making it do I have to wait a while before using it? I know the gypsum is a slow release but I was curious how long the Dolomite lime takes for me to notice a difference or for the plants to uptake the calcium.

Vizzaro said:

I've been thinking about how to grind my Dolomite Lime into a powder and I'll look into an electric coffee grinder. I found a place where I can buy a 25Ibs bag of powder Dolomite Lime for $7.25 and I'm thinking about buying it rather than buying a $20 grinder haha.

I tried to grind down a little bit of the Dolomite lime I have and I sprinkled a little bit on the top of my media then I fertigated my plants again. I hope that helps. I didn't test the pH run-off and I'll definitely do that next time.

Also with adding the Dolomite Lime to the media when making it do I have to wait a while before using it? I know the gypsum is a slow release but I was curious how long the Dolomite lime takes for me to notice a difference or for the plants to uptake the calcium.

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I would let it react for a few days but for this to occur a bit of moisture is necessary so it is best to slightly wet the mixture and mix it once again. But i think it should also work if it is directly used as long as it is thoroughly mixed since it doesn't take that long to neutralize if using powdered lime. Just water sufficiently after transplanting.
And yeah if you are able to get the powdered lime it is for sure a lot easier than to grind it.

Okay so I did a up-pot today into a 2 gallon pot from a 1 gallon. My plants roots where everywhere I did not expect all those roots. I added some more Dolomite lime and then fertigated. My pH run-off was 5.4 and my EC was 1.4. The pH of the water solution was 6.0 and the EC was 1.3. I'm also noticing new growth has burnt tips. I'm at a loss of what is happening here.

Personally I am not starting with such a high EC on small plants... that might be the reason for your burn.

My results have been amazing so far. Apart from that above difference, I have no access to 20-10-20 since I am in Asia (thus using another hydro nute AB instead).

Also I am using a weekly compost tea. The Bugbee method has been serving me well, even including these differences.

Overgrowtho said:

Personally I am not starting with such a high EC on small plants... that might be the reason for your burn.

My results have been amazing so far. Apart from that above difference, I have no access to 20-10-20 since I am in Asia (thus using another hydro nute AB instead).

Also I am using a weekly compost tea. The Bugbee method has been serving me well, even including these differences.

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What EC do you start with? I have been giving this plant around the same EC everytime I fertigate, even the smaller plants get the same EC.

I'm doing my best to stay as close to Dr. Bugbees method. His video never specifies anything about varying EC's during different stages of the plants life, only to give it an EC ~1.3 and make sure the run-off doesn't get too high.

Vizzaro said:

What EC do you start with? I have been giving this plant around the same EC everytime I fertigate, even the smaller plants get the same EC.

I'm doing my best to stay as close to Dr. Bugbees method. His video never specifies anything about varying EC's during different stages of the plants life, only to give it an EC ~1.3 and make sure the run-off doesn't get too high.

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Its safe to say not to feed 1.3 initially but to build up to it.

bernie344 said:

Its safe to say not to feed 1.3 initially but to build up to it.

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So what's a good starting EC and how and when do I work up to 1.3?

Vizzaro said:

So what's a good starting EC and how and when do I work up to 1.3?

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3rd week 0.6
4th week 0.8
5th week 1.0
6th week 1.3
continue to harvest

Vizzaro said:

Okay so I did a up-pot today into a 2 gallon pot from a 1 gallon. My plants roots where everywhere I did not expect all those roots. I added some more Dolomite lime and then fertigated. My pH run-off was 5.4 and my EC was 1.4. The pH of the water solution was 6.0 and the EC was 1.3. I'm also noticing new growth has burnt tips. I'm at a loss of what is happening here.

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Ok, your ph seems good, it will rise a bit the next days/weeks since the dolomite will continue to react. You could dilute the nutrient solution a bit to an EC of 1,0 if you want but i wouldn't worry too much as they are now at a size where their growth will soon take off and they will rapidly building bio mass. What kind of light do you have?

Audiofilet said:

Ok, your ph seems good, it will rise a bit the next days/weeks since the dolomite will continue to react. You could dilute the nutrient solution a bit to an EC of 1,0 if you want but i wouldn't worry too much as they are now at a size where their growth will soon take off and they will rapidly building bio mass. What kind of light do you have?

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I have a 240w Kingbrite 3500k + epistar 660nm. I've been also trying to find a good VPD chart to make sure that's all in order. But there are so many different ones that give different VPD's. My plant is still a light green and 2 bottom leaves are getting necrosis and falling off. I hope it bounces back from whatever is wrong with it.

Very good info on this topic. I also replied to another topic similar to this one on here.

Current set up -

**2×4 closet grow for veg running (1) 100 watt S1000 Bloomspect quantum board + (1) Unit Farm UF2000 100w QB
(will rotate in an additional 240w Yuanhui LM301B + 660nm Epistar reds once seedlings and clones take off)
**4×4 Grow tent for flower running (1) 240w Kingbrite Samsung QB with LM301H / Epistar UV / Epi 660 / Epi IR + (1) 250w Viparspectra P2500 QB



Being a newb and now working from home I've got nothing but time on my hands. Im on my 3rd grow and wanted to change things up a bit while at the same time keeping it as simple as possible with resources/nutes that I already have. (Taking up space on the grow closet shelf lol) Not because I was unhappy with my current ways...just that the Bugbee vid everyone's referencing really intrigued me...so why not change it up a bit? So far my most productive grow has been with 30% Roots Organic soil/30% peat moss/20% ewc/20% perlite + Dr. Earth honegrown veg and flower girl bloom nutes. I really like how the peat lightened the medium weight that in turn helped me get a better feel for watering schedules and amounts. So why not try out this 30 + years "proven" 50 peat/50 vermiculite process? I already have a bunch of Jack's 20-20-20, gypsum, and dolo lime on hand too. I took a detour the first few weeks of veg because I decided to try my hand at mainlining these Moby Dick and G-13 clones. That of course added a good bit of time to veg but hopefully in the end it'll be worth it! Again, keeping it simple...just using his recipe as a base and will monitor pH and PPM. The growth really exploded soon after they recovered from the mainlining. The one on the right has only coco loco and 20% perlite. I plan on running Jack's bloom 10-30-20 or Flower Fuel on the Bugbee media and other non organic grows. I REALLY am liking the results from the Flower Fuel btw...Maybe I was just doing something wrong but the flower fuel did WAY better in flower on my 2nd grow vs the ladies being fed FF Tiger Bloom. That and I also want to try and conserve my pH up..I just got it lol...literally had to add 3-3.5 tsp per gallon of pH up to get my pH where it needs to be when adding 2.5-3 tsp per gallon of the Tiger Bloom. Anyway...getting off topic...I will definitely let y'all know how the Bugbee recipe pans out. So far so great!

Vizzaro said:

I have a 240w Kingbrite 3500k + epistar 660nm. I've been also trying to find a good VPD chart to make sure that's all in order. But there are so many different ones that give different VPD's. My plant is still a light green and 2 bottom leaves are getting necrosis and falling off. I hope it bounces back from whatever is wrong with it.

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What is your temperature and rhumdity? And what distance is the light away? Because if it is very close it could be too much with leds.

Audiofilet said:

So this is a different approach to fertilization (to save the environment etc.) than what's recommended in his cannabis video and not of big relevance if fertigating in a soilless peat based substrate with 10-20 % runoff.

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im running straight hydro w RO water... trying to go no flush of the whole system as that will cause me some problems.

in the past iv created his soil mix.. and ran the nuits from the video... simple, easy, really a great technique... the goal was to basically recreate that from a hydro perspective...

first thought was to just run the same nutrients as w the soil mix... then i read the paper on closes system hydroponics and it seemed like the mixes were different. lots more K. so iv really spent the last few weeks trying to reconcile them. why reccomend a 2-1-2 when all of the mixes from the paper have much more K.... basically trying to figure out.. if bugbee were growing cananbis in hydroponics. how would he do it?

flushing out 10-20% of the solution is something i could do regularly... i wonder if u have any input on if i were to simply recreate my regular mix.. 2-1-2 w similar c.. and basically copy the watering techingque previously used.... as in flush out 20% of the cycling solution at feeding intervals. theres still a lot of blind spots in my knowledge here... the cation exchange u mentioned for one... so any input would be helpfull.

Audiofilet said:

What is your temperature and rhumdity? And what distance is the light away? Because if it is very close it could be too much with leds.

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Temp during the day is 78°f - 81°f with 70% RH and at night it can get as cold as 65°f.
And I keep my light at least 18 inches away from my biggest plant.

Vizzaro said:

Temp during the day is 78°f - 81°f with 70% RH and at night it can get as cold as 65°f.
And I keep my light at least 18 inches away from my biggest plant.

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Ok that looks good. All values seem reasonable fine so your plants should soon take off.

Curious about the outcomes and/or the ongoing grows using this media mix and 20-10-20 food.
Success?