DUET 2400 (LED FIXTURE) - UP TO 2400 WATTS (Flip Chip Opto)

littlejacob said:

Bonjour
You said that driving our cob too low will decrease efficiency at some point...I always heard the contrary...lower we run them higher Is efficiency!
I have cxb 3590(137w) @1400mA (half nominal current...50w)...some use it @700mA (23w) some even [email protected] when it will become less efficient...not according to datasheet!!!
CU

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Bonjour Jacob,

In response to your post yes it is definitely better to under-drive, but there is a sweet spot range on all semiconductors. And as with all current semiconductors if you start driving them too high the efficiency will drop off and this is known as efficiency droop. But all LED’s require a minimum voltage, which is called the threshold voltage or turn on voltage, to be applied across the junction before enough current flows in order to generate light. Each semiconductor will have a relative efficiency curve and a range where max efficiency vs drive current is achieved, this is what I mean about knowing where the sweet spot range is regarding the chip set you are running.

I went to the CREE datasheet for the model you mentioned and interestingly they do not supply the minimum forward voltage, they only supply some typical data and some maximum data for voltage and current. And if I am honest some of their data seems counter-intuitive and contradictory to the way LEDs work like their relative luminous flux graph vs drive current vs Tc for one droop is actually negated by a higher Tj albeit at the expense of shortening the LEDs life, yet their data seems to be saying the opposite.

Having not played around with the CREE chips and this being the first time I have properly looked at their datasheets I have to say I am somewhat puzzled and confused by them in certain area, maybe I am missing something and if so please feel free to point it out.

Alex Lau said:

Hi Johnnycannaseed1,

Thanks for the suggestion! We actually have another team working on general lighting (stadium, lighthouses, airports).
The Acer Aspire Park in Taiwan is actually fitted with our lights. You might be able to find some youtube videos from early testing from our team in Taiwan.

We're also in talks with border patrol lighting, but that's classified atm-

-Alex

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Hey Alex,

Great to see you guys are already heading in that direction, no doubt your company will thrive in these areas

coolbreez1 said:

I would agree with Johnnycannaseed1, ideal applications for commercial agriculture, in the long run, will be shelving systems with lower powered LEDs maybe in the 100 watt range, allowing one to better utilize vertical space. For example if I am running 100 watt lights why not grow two levels of 3 foot tall plants in a 8 foot tall space. Lower veg time, faster turn over per sq ft.... why bother with 8 feet of head room if you can avoid it?

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We can also do it to as hobbyist, check the little test project I have been working on it is only with a single tomato under each light in a pot, but the next run will be with a flood and drain system using canna, but as you can see the growth is way more vigorous under the fuller spectrum COB LEDs.

Having done similar setups with 4 foot flouros spaced out evenly across the canopy and literally touching the plants (they are cool to touch) and regularly hitting between 1.4 - 1.8 gpw depending on strain, I have no doubt that in the future I will be able to surpass this figure with a full on LED grow and to prove it I will run a timelapse journal.

Yea where's the red and white right?

They should do side by side grow tests with three different clones in each tent.

Blurple
White
Red/white
Blue/white

@Alex Lau if flip chip opto really wants to know what's works for cannabis and set themselves apart from other companies, do a really good side by side grow test with different colours.

And get the buds sent off to a third party lab for testing afterwards! They should get a trusted person from Rui with good video personality here to do the tests *cough* @Growmau5 *cough* @greengenes707 *cough*

We need more videos like this::::

2cent said:

gg lol hahz
Aldo
They tested it in an office off lol...makes sence for grow light....
Wait look In the distance there is an office plant looks about 30foot from light
Is it from seed? And is first time you test so bout 1hr growth yeah?

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I could not resist the comment, just because one of the guys was shielding his face from the glare!

Johnnycannaseed1 said:

We can also do it to as hobbyist, check the little test project I have been working on it is only with a single tomato under each light in a pot, but the next run will be with a flood and drain system using canna, but as you can see the growth is way more vigorous under the fuller spectrum COB LEDs.

Having done similar setups with 4 foot flouros spaced out evenly across the canopy and literally touching the plants (they are cool to touch) and regularly hitting between 1.4 - 1.8 gpw depending on strain, I have no doubt that in the future I will be able to surpass this figure with a full on LED grow and to prove it I will run a timelapse journal.

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I agree JohnnyCannaSeed1, I have been running Vero 29, 3500k and 4000k for my grow at about 100 watts each with RSP-320-36 drivers, not super efficient but a lot of bang for the buck; my power costs are low $0.057-0.061 cents kWh, so I invested less up front in higher efficiency drivers and mostly aimed to prove the viability of the broad spectrum COBS first.

It is pretty clear to me that I could likely double my output, by super cropping the plants early on and aim for a 2"x 2"x 3" footprint because I am not gaining a lot by the plant getting 5 feet tall, simply because only the top 2 feet of the canopy really gets the light it needs to produce good buds. I have been toying with the idea of something stacked like you have pictured, I would be able to veg the plants for a shorter period of time and grow twice as many plants in the same area.

coolbreez1 said:

I agree JohnnyCannaSeed1, I have been running Vero 29, 3500k and 4000k for my grow at about 100 watts each with RSP-320-36 drivers, not super efficient but a lot of bang for the buck; my power costs are low $0.057-0.061 cents kWh, so I invested less up front in higher efficiency drivers and mostly aimed to prove the viability of the broad spectrum COBS first.

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Sensible move, always best to tread carefully and invest wisely and test test test lol. I can definitely say broad band spectrum, high intensity COBs are the business. Having played around with grow lighting for many years I always dreamed of the day when those graphs would start to show a bit more life and fatten up...My early day tests with LED was ok but you really had to pack the chips into smaller areas and that brought along with it cooling headaches and poor coverage, now it really is happy days.

coolbreez1 said:

It is pretty clear to me that I could likely double my output, by super cropping the plants early on and aim for a 2"x 2"x 3" footprint because I am not gaining a lot by the plant getting 5 feet tall, simply because only the top 2 feet of the canopy really gets the light it needs to produce good buds. I have been toying with the idea of something stacked like you have pictured, I would be able to veg the plants for a shorter period of time and grow twice as many plants in the same area.

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100% this is the way to go, like you say you are only really ever showing good bud development in the top couple feet of canopy, so it makes absolutely no sense growing 5 -6 foot trees indoors when you could of grown scrogs on two levels and hit way more in terms of yield... Growing this way is utilising the design advantages LEDs have to offer, and it's basically making HIDs obsolete.

Go double stack, use 120 degree chips, keep the fixture/s up close to the canopy and watch... Soon you will be achieving 2gpw upwards using a double stack scrog method, simply because you will be getting that photon density right to the bottom of the canopy at minimal loss, which equals less wattage needed to grow vs the taller plants, plus if you have cut down on veg time you will gain an extra crop or two a year. And finally as LEDs keep on improving that 2gpw efficiency rating is only going to get higher and higher

Hi PicklesRus,

Thanks for sharing those videos.
To summarize all those posts about purple, blue, red, and white, here at our office we are not choosing sides. We are simply creating solutions for everything. We'll have a Duet COB with white/red within a week or two. Our development team is working on it as we speak.

About a side by side grow test, as a lighting company with a reputable corporate portfolio background in the semi-conductor industry for 20+ years, we tread carefully with semi-legal cannabis stuff We're hoping with the new reform in laws this year we may be able to start something on our own.

PicklesRus said:

Yea where's the red and white right?

They should do side by side grow tests with three different clones in each tent.

Blurple
White
Red/white
Blue/white

@Alex Lau if flip chip opto really wants to know what's works for cannabis and set themselves apart from other companies, do a really good side by side grow test with different colours.

And get the buds sent off to a third party lab for testing afterwards! They should get a trusted person from Rui with good video personality here to do the tests *cough* @Growmau5 *cough* @greengenes707 *cough*

We need more videos like this::::

Click to expand...

coolbreez1 said:

I saw the press release about the Acer Aspire Park in Taiwan a few days before this post went live on the board here, talking about Flip Chip Opto, and your patented process which removes a layer of substrate and creates a far better thermal transfer?

I would agree with Johnnycannaseed1, ideal applications for commercial agriculture, in the long run, will be shelving systems with lower powered LEDs maybe in the 100 watt range, allowing one to better utilize vertical space. For example if I am running 100 watt lights why not grow two levels of 3 foot tall plants in a 8 foot tall space. Lower veg time, faster turn over per sq ft.... why bother with 8 feet of head room if you can avoid it?

Click to expand...

Hi coolbreez1,

Our patented process does indeed remove a layer of substrate, hence we call it our 3-PAD technology. Our thermal transfer is measured at two decimal places lower than the best competitor on the market, meaning our COBs are able to run cooler, with a smaller heatsink/fan, and life span is increased due to lower junction temperatures.

We are working on a fixture design as we speak, thin, light, super powerful, smart, etc. just for those with limited height.

Alex Lau said:

Hi PicklesRus,

Thanks for sharing those videos.
To summarize all those posts about purple, blue, red, and white, here at our office we are not choosing sides. We are simply creating solutions for everything. We'll have a Duet COB with white/red within a week or two. Our development team is working on it as we speak.

About a side by side grow test, as a lighting company with a reputable corporate portfolio background in the semi-conductor industry for 20+ years, we tread carefully with semi-legal cannabis stuff We're hoping with the new reform in laws this year we may be able to start something on our own.

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Sounds pretty good.

Could you give us your best flip chip opto match to the cree cxb3590? I'm going to build a few fixtures and I'd prefer to use your leds if they are better.

Edit: I should mention the reason why I'm asking is because the cxb3590 is the most popular cob being used for led projects right at this minute. It would be helpful to all of us here to know.

Alex Lau said:

Hi PicklesRus,

Thanks for sharing those videos.
To summarize all those posts about purple, blue, red, and white, here at our office we are not choosing sides. We are simply creating solutions for everything. We'll have a Duet COB with white/red within a week or two. Our development team is working on it as we speak.

About a side by side grow test, as a lighting company with a reputable corporate portfolio background in the semi-conductor industry for 20+ years, we tread carefully with semi-legal cannabis stuff We're hoping with the new reform in laws this year we may be able to start something on our own.

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Tomatoes. Test with indeterminate or bush varieties of tomato plants.

quote

"Could you give us your best flip chip opto match to the cree cxb3590? I'm going to build a few fixtures and I'd prefer to use your leds if they are better."


>me too ..

or like other companys select a few growers here to test for you
as some like realstykles and growmau have 100s followers it woudl attract alot of attansion if its genuine, in return u get mass marketing for the cost of a pannel and we also get to see it xD

2cent said:

or like other companys select a few growers here to test for you
as some like realstykles and growmau have 100s followers it woudl attract alot of attansion if its genuine, in return u get mass marketing for the cost of a pannel and we also get to see it xD

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I second that, they already have good videos it would be great to add to that.

2cent said:

or like other companys select a few growers here to test for you
as some like realstykles and growmau have 100s followers it woudl attract alot of attansion if its genuine, in return u get mass marketing for the cost of a pannel and we also get to see it xD

Click to expand...

Hi 2cent,

We are actually working out the kinks of having hobbyist/growers try our lights.
The best way to be part of this program is to send us a message through our website and requesting for it. You'll need to provide your background and links to your grows as well.

-Alex

Hi,
Actually for a 20+years company in semiconductor, I found your datasheets are a little bit mickey mouse ones.
Also you said they are outdated while the product is new and not even released
I mean, it seems you didn't even finish to create your datasheet but you release the COB.
Then you claim your led is better than HPS while you have never tested it in real situation ?!
all of this is none sense to me.

Hiding behind the fact cannabis test is not legal isn't sufficient, is it difficult to try your lamp on salad, tomatoes, peper plants ? Are you are releasing a COB for plant grow without trying it ?

When some here calculated your DUET 2400W to use 65% efficient blue chip when the cob is driven @20W you said you changed the chip. Please provide the new datasheet, we might be pot growers but it doesn't mean we don't deserve to know the real output of your chip.

Maybe you are going a bit to fast...

Don't misunderstand me, you are doing great job, you are listening futur customers, and I hope you will succeed in making the product we need. But for now, you act like if you have the new best cob available while providing no datasheet, no test, and you don't even know how plants absorbs light... if your cob is efficient on paper then yes, I will take off my vero and cxb and try this new one. if it is not, I see no point testing it.

speedyganga said:

Hi,
Actually for a 20+years company in semiconductor, I found your datasheets are a little bit mickey mouse ones.
Also you said they are outdated while the product is new and not even released
I mean, it seems you didn't even finish to create your datasheet but you release the COB.
Then you claim your led is better than HPS while you have never tested it in real situation ?!
all of this is none sense to me.

Hiding behind the fact cannabis test is not legal isn't sufficient, is it difficult to try your lamp on salad, tomatoes, peper plants ? Are you are releasing a COB for plant grow without trying it ?

When some here calculated your DUET 2400W to use 65% efficient blue chip when the cob is driven @20W you said you changed the chip. Please provide the new datasheet, we might be pot growers but it doesn't mean we don't deserve to know the real output of your chip.

Maybe you are going a bit to fast...

Don't misunderstand me, you are doing great job, you are listening futur customers, and I hope you will succeed in making the product we need. But for now, you act like if you have the new best cob available while providing no datasheet, no test, and you don't even know how plants absorbs light... if your cob is efficient on paper then yes, I will take off my vero and cxb and try this new one. if it is not, I see no point testing it.

Click to expand...

It sounds like you guy still have work to do! It'll be interesting to see if these tree growers work.

I have free space beside my cxb3590's. I need 16 total. I could mount them both and run the ones I want.

Alex Lau said:

Hi coolbreez1,

Our patented process does indeed remove a layer of substrate, hence we call it our 3-PAD technology. Our thermal transfer is measured at two decimal places lower than the best competitor on the market, meaning our COBs are able to run cooler, with a smaller heatsink/fan, and life span is increased due to lower junction temperatures.

We are working on a fixture design as we speak, thin, light, super powerful, smart, etc. just for those with limited height.

Click to expand...

Hey Alex don't want to sound cynical but;

1) Who actually owns the patents for the flip chip technology?

2) You mention your "thermal transfer is measured at two decimal places lower than the best competitor"... I take it you mean the thermal resistance figure of your packages substrate?

If so then I find the figure you quoted very very hard to believe... Do you have test data and test data footage to prove this, like showing us Heat dissapation/thermal data, Tj, Tc data and Rj data plus all the calculations?