DWC LED 600W Starting from Seed :)

madininagyal

madininagyal

Well-Known Member
OG_Dreams said:
As I was trying to figure out how much h2o2 to put in my system I stumbled upon this article, the link no longer works but luckily someone posted the text to the forum.

Pondering peroxide
by Ed Rosenthal. Posted on Saturday, March 2 2002 12:00:00 AM Ask Ed CC35
How much hydrogen peroxide should be used?
When and how much hydrogen peroxide should I use in my hydroponic solution?
Stiggy,
Internet

Hydrogen peroxide is a powerful oxidizer that can be used to destroy fungi, molds, bacteria and other infectious agents as well as some pollutants. Adding it to your water helps plants by destroying infectious agents and by adding oxygen to the roots' environment.

Hydrogen peroxide is an essential ingredient in maintaining a clean growing room. It replaces chlorine bleach, which is antiseptic but harmful to breathe. When added to reservoirs, hydrogen peroxide slows the growth of algae and other water organisms so that trays and utensils need to be cleaned less frequently. Soil and water borne diseases such as pythium and other stem and root rots occur at much lower rates in hydrogen peroxide-enriched water. Hydrogen peroxide works because of the oxidative reaction, so micro-organisms are unlikely to develop a tolerance.

There are many ways to add hydrogen peroxide to the water. A measured amount every three days is the crudest method, but still effectively enriches the water. A smaller measured amount daily would even out the peaks and valleys of oxygen in the water. Another method is to use a drip similar to an IV bag, which continuously adds a regulated amount. The most sophisticated method is a probe which measures the oxygen content of the water as an indirect means of measuring the hydrogen peroxide, and adds an appropriate amount as needed.

When used properly, hydrogen peroxide can keep infections in the garden to a minimum and stimulate root growth by increasing the oxygen content of the water. Hydrogen peroxide degrades into free oxygen and water over a three-day period. Some of the oxygen dissolves in the reservoir water and is used by the roots.

Different concentrations of hydrogen peroxide solution are available. It is sold diluted to 3% in drug stores. Some indoor garden shops sell 10% grade and 35% grade is sold in a few health food stores and over the Internet. The 3% hydrogen peroxide solution can be used topically to sterilize cuts and infections. Hydrogen peroxide solution at 10% burns skin. 35% hydrogen peroxide solution acts much like a concentrated acid and is handled as a hazardous, corrosive liquid.

The 10% hydrogen peroxide solution is sometimes used at rates as low as one ounce per 10 gallons water; however, enrichment using an ounce per gallon is more effective for disease control. When 35% hydrogen peroxide solution is used, it can be added at the rate of three ounces per 10 gallons of water. If a 3% solution is used, use three ounces per gallon of water.


Hope this helps future readers!
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I use 35% h2o2 and 3ml in my 5 gal bucket each new change of nutes
 
eastcoastmo

eastcoastmo

Well-Known Member
OG_Dreams said:
I see "damping off" quite often, what does that mean exactly? Root rot or stunted growth because too much moisture?
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Yeah man, damping off is from too much moisture and the heat mat seems to create too much humidity which causes it. Root rot is from too warmer temps in the res causing algae and pythium which, if you use h2o2 you can stop it from happening.
 
OG_Dreams

OG_Dreams

Member
Alright added some sm90 to both my buckets, also some h2o2.
Think I should add nutes? 1/4 strength of recommended was what I was thinking? Since I started in rock wool then right into a DWC bucket and didn't start in ocean forest or something similar with nutrients already in it I thought about adding some nutes to kick start their growth back since I kind of hindered it from the beginning.
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
Both plants cotyledons have started to turn yellow, is this normal? I know they're supposed to die and fall off but not this soon I thought.
 
eastcoastmo

eastcoastmo

Well-Known Member
OG_Dreams said:
Alright added some sm90 to both my buckets, also some h2o2.
Think I should add nutes? 1/4 strength of recommended was what I was thinking? Since I started in rock wool then right into a DWC bucket and didn't start in ocean forest or something similar with nutrients already in it I thought about adding some nutes to kick start their growth back since I kind of hindered it from the beginning.
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View attachment 3687679
Both plants cotyledons have started to turn yellow, is this normal? I know they're supposed to die and fall off but not this soon I thought.
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1/4 strength will be fine mate :) I feed from the get go and have no issues!
 
OG_Dreams

OG_Dreams

Member
Ok guys, so I couldn't resist and just had to pull the cubes out and see how the roots were forming.

The girl with bigger leafs has gone nowhere! Like literally not a mm of growth on the root, and that's with letting her almost all the way dry out then watering her. I have moved her back to the germinating tray with my rapid rooters and cfl bulb in hopes of getting the root system to develop.

The girl with small leaves and no real growth... has a single HUGE root, has a bunch of hairs on it and looks really good. I'm assuming the no leaf growth is because it's spending all of its energy into developing a root system? I think I'll keep this one in the 5-gal bucket :)

I feel like I made a mistake in moving them to the buckets to fast and not giving them a chance to really grow the roots they needed. Well lesson learned haha
 
OG_Dreams

OG_Dreams

Member
I know it's been awhile, but things have been pretty slow.

So I germinated 2 new seeds, I started them in rapid rooters and kept them under a 120w bright white CFL bulb. They shot up like crazy! Much better than my first run, I wanted to be too involved at such an early stage of their life, when they just needed to chill and grow.

The 2 that I originally had in the buckets are still in their buckets, they are both showing growth, just a little slow still. Things are coming along though and I'm excited to really see some explosive growth soon!
image.jpeg The seedlings, 3 days old
image.jpeg Leaf tips are drooping :( over fert maybe?
image.jpeg The first 3 fingered leafs just showed up!

Thanks for keeping up!
 
OG_Dreams

OG_Dreams

Member
The water sits level with one(ish) layer of hydroton at the bottom of my net pot lid, the rock wool cube sits on top of that. Then more rocks around it. Whenever I touch the cube it's always moist. Should I raise the cube up so it dries out and I choose when it's watered?

Was also thinking about transferring the seedlings to the net pot lid and not put it in the bucket, so the seedling roots will immediately grow on the hydroton and then eventually moving the lid to the bucket in a week or two. Do you think I'm saving time doing this and protecting the roots so they'll grow faster?
 
eastcoastmo

eastcoastmo

Well-Known Member
Ideally you want the water level about 2 inches under the net pot so the roots go searching for the water. The feeler roots will shoot out first searching for it. You want the top of the rockwool to be fairly dry but the bottom to be just damp, the clay balls can be a bit damper. Its all for dissolved oxygen release. If the roots arent getting it, they look overwatered. Try dropping the water level a bit more until you see them reaching for the light :)
 
OG_Dreams

OG_Dreams

Member
eastcoastmo said:
Ideally you want the water level about 2 inches under the net pot so the roots go searching for the water. The feeler roots will shoot out first searching for it. You want the top of the rockwool to be fairly dry but the bottom to be just damp, the clay balls can be a bit damper. Its all for dissolved oxygen release. If the roots arent getting it, they look overwatered. Try dropping the water level a bit more until you see them reaching for the light :)
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Dang, I thought I read to have it just inside the net pot, and then once roots get past the net pot then lower the water level 1 inch below the bottom of pot. Your way does make sense though and will try it out asap, thanks eastcoastmo
 
eastcoastmo

eastcoastmo

Well-Known Member
OG_Dreams said:
Dang, I thought I read to have it just inside the net pot, and then once roots get past the net pot then lower the water level 1 inch below the bottom of pot. Your way does make sense though and will try it out asap, thanks eastcoastmo
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Just for the record, I don't use dwc but I am a marine scientist that majored in enviro chem so I have a good knowledge of how dissolved oxygen is highly important in water culture systems. If the water is so high that the rockwool and plant are constantly soaked, they don't take up the oxygen..roots need oxygen to survive. Don't drop it down too far below, just do it gradually until you see a difference in growth...you will notice them take up nutrients and start growing quicker when they hit that sweet spot...maybe @madininagyal can give more pointers as he uses this method.
 
madininagyal

madininagyal

Well-Known Member
eastcoastmo said:
Just for the record, I don't use dwc but I am a marine scientist that majored in enviro chem so I have a good knowledge of how dissolved oxygen is highly important in water culture systems. If the water is so high that the rockwool and plant are constantly soaked, they don't take up the oxygen..roots need oxygen to survive. Don't drop it down too far below, just do it gradually until you see a difference in growth...you will notice them take up nutrients and start growing quicker when they hit that sweet spot...maybe @madininagyal can give more pointers as he uses this method.
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I got around 1cm of the net pot in water and my rooter is 2cm up of the water when they hit the water they get really huge with this method more than when the water dont touch the net pot , I even got net pot broken by roots but I only grown autoflower in dwc

Forgot to say after the roots hit water I drop the water level at the same level as the bottom of the net pot
 
eastcoastmo

eastcoastmo

Well-Known Member
madininagyal said:
I got around 1cm of the net pot in water and my rooter is 2cm up of the water when they hit the water they get really huge with this method more than when the water dont touch the net pot , I even got net pot broken by roots but I only grown autoflower in dwc

Forgot to say after the roots hit water I drop the water level at the same level as the bottom of the net pot
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Ok cool, so the rockwool would be good being an inch above the water while the pot is slightly in. Cheers man!
 
OG_Dreams

OG_Dreams

Member
First off, it's Memorial Day, so if there are any veterans browsing this thread just wanted to say thanks for your service!

Today has been pretty good so far, woke up and checked in on my buckets and the stronger of the 2 has roots coming out the bottom of the net pot lid! They look nice and white, was really excited to see some progress. They both have new growth up top as well, but like before one still seems to be stunted and really slow to grow.

The seedlings are both on their second set of true leaves already! I picked up an oscillating fan for them and have it on high during lights on and low during night. Idk if I will continue to keep it on at night, it feels like they don't have time to recover from the wind.

image.jpeg She is showing her roots, and top growth seems good.
image.jpeg The droop has started to go away, but growth seems stunted and slow.
image.jpeg I moved 1 seedling to a net pot lid and surrounded it with hydroton but have not placed it in a bucket yet and am still hand watering it.

Anyone have any luck with the Lucas formula? Was thinking about trying it

Like always thanks for keeping up and feel free to comment or provide some input if you think I could be doing something better :bigjoint:
 
OG_Dreams

OG_Dreams

Member
Also I think I'm doing nutes wrong. I'm using the flora series. I have been going by the chart on the back of the bottle, which states for seedlings 1/4 tsp/gal which would be 6.25ml/5gal, then I would only want to use quarter strength cause that's what I've been reading everywhere so that would be 1.5ml/5gal of each micro, gro, and bloom.

I have since doubled that in my buckets to 3ml/5gal of each part. This seems like such a low amount especially when I read general hydroponics online chart and it's much different than the back of the bottle chart! The online chart states a seedling should be getting 12.5ml/5gal which even half strength is still more than my guys in my buckets are getting. Ugh I don't want to put more nutes in seeing how that is where most mess up but it still seems to me 3ml/5gal is on the low side.

Any help would be awesome, thanks in advance guys
 
staticzero

staticzero

Member
OG_Dreams said:
I think I may want to change the off period during to day to conserve electricity. Any time periods work well for you?
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I think it depends on your electricity usage periods. Mine is "cheap" (read: normal) 7pm-7am, really expensive 7am-9am and 5pm-7pm, and medium-expensive 9am-5pm.

Therefore for my 18/6 I chose to go 7pm-1pm (no choice to cross into an expensive period but most time on is the cheapest rate) and when they're ready for 12/12 I can go straight to 7pm-7am (cheapest).

It helps to draw a timeline of 2 days on paper and mark off the hours according to the power companies rates... then the smart times to have your light(s) on become easier to choose.
 
eastcoastmo

eastcoastmo

Well-Known Member
OG_Dreams said:
Also I think I'm doing nutes wrong. I'm using the flora series. I have been going by the chart on the back of the bottle, which states for seedlings 1/4 tsp/gal which would be 6.25ml/5gal, then I would only want to use quarter strength cause that's what I've been reading everywhere so that would be 1.5ml/5gal of each micro, gro, and bloom.

I have since doubled that in my buckets to 3ml/5gal of each part. This seems like such a low amount especially when I read general hydroponics online chart and it's much different than the back of the bottle chart! The online chart states a seedling should be getting 12.5ml/5gal which even half strength is still more than my guys in my buckets are getting. Ugh I don't want to put more nutes in seeing how that is where most mess up but it still seems to me 3ml/5gal is on the low side.

Any help would be awesome, thanks in advance guys
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Great to hear the roots are coming through, hope they pick up some speed for you soon!!
As for the nutes, sorry bro, got no idea with that brand. I'd stick with the 3mL/5 gal for now until they grow more, if that works out too strong, you'll see nute burn and know to back it off a bit!
 
OG_Dreams

OG_Dreams

Member
staticzero said:
I think it depends on your electricity usage periods. Mine is "cheap" (read: normal) 7pm-7am, really expensive 7am-9am and 5pm-7pm, and medium-expensive 9am-5pm.

Therefore for my 18/6 I chose to go 7pm-1pm (no choice to cross into an expensive period but most time on is the cheapest rate) and when they're ready for 12/12 I can go straight to 7pm-7am (cheapest).

It helps to draw a timeline of 2 days on paper and mark off the hours according to the power companies rates... then the smart times to have your light(s) on become easier to choose.
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Thanks man, I didn't even think about doing this even though I knew the rates changed, for some reason I didn't connect the dots :wall: I'll have to dig the bill up tomorrow
 
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