DWC/LED Expert Opinions Only: Conflicting Advice...on Everything

Hi All,

TLDR: Reading a TON of conflicting opinions on every single question I have about the growing, and need some experts to outline the answers to the numbered questions below once and for all so I can get the process right. I understand this post is extensive, so please don't feel the need to answer every question. If you can contribute to even a single question, I would sincerely appreciate it. God bless!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
N00b here on my first grow. The Internet, regardless of enabling humankind to possess virtually infinite knowledge at its fingertips, has failed to provide a consistent methodology to growing marijuana. In other words, while websites, forums, and advice are abundant, one major thing I am struggling with is the lack of consistency in the information available online regarding growing. I'm taking this to mean two things: 1) many people have found success in many different ways and 2) no uniform method exists. As such, I'm calling on the more experienced growers on this forum to advise on a few key issues whose answers are heavily laden with conflicting opinions online.

Prior to outlining the issues, I'd like to state the current setup.

7 1" by 1" garden-grade (non-industrial) rockwool cubes were soaked for several hours in pH-adjusted water of roughly 5.8. Next, rockwool cubes were removed from water, gently squeezed to remove excess water without destroying the structure of the cube, and seeds were added to pre-cut hole in varying orientations (pointy side up, pointy side down, etc). After the first week, 7 out of 8 sprouted.

I have been keeping the rockwool cubes in a 4' x 4' x 80" tent under a 600W VIPARSPECTRA LED light under ONLY the vegetation light setting (keeping the blooming light setting in the off position) for 24 hours a day. Distance of the light from the tips of the plants is roughly 32". Temperature is 73 degrees Fahrenheit, humidity sits at 35% (put a bucket of water in the tent today in hopes that it would increase moisture). A fan and carbon filter run in the tent to help circulate air. The majority of the sprouts have grown cotyledons, and a few of those have their first true leaves. It has been a total of 8 days since planting. I have 4 8-inch 5-gallon DWC systems and Hydroton. DWC has drip ring. Air pump is 3L/min and I have four of them. Each pump has two outlets, to be connected to each bucket's drip ring and air stone.

While the above may sound reasonable so far, I would like to outline the conflicting opinions I have seen that have made this process impossible to feel 100% confident in (i.e. no matter which method I choose, I always feel like I'm doing something wrong because there's never a consistent answer to any question that I've consulted the Internet for). So as experts, I would like your opinion on the following matters:

1) Rockwool vs. Rapid Rooter. It took me several days to dig through posts and decide which one to choose. Fans are die-hard about both. Which do you use?

2) pH of water. I've heard 5.0-5.5, 5.5-6.0, 5.0 to 6.0, and 5.5 to 6.5. Which do you use?

3) Distance of light from seedlings: Manufacturer says 32" on labeling, people online are saying 12-24, some are saying over 30, and some are saying that the light can touch the leaves. Which do you do?

4) Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) of Water: I've heard everything from 100-700 ppm. Which is ideal for one-week old plants? Some people even say not to use nutrients at all. I put my best sprout into Hydroton and added small amounts of nutrients to the reservoir. After several hours, a fully upright sprout was bending. I got paranoid, and took out the air pumps from the drip rings. I re-calibrated my meter and measured ppm at 671, which falls under the 700 mentioned above. I suspected the bending may have been because of shock from nutrients. The plant is still slight bent. I've ripped up some Rapid Rooter (soaked in water) and propped it against the base of the sprout to help it stand up straight. All leaves on this particular sprout appear green and healthy. Any ideas on what might have caused it?

5) When to transfer the rockwool to the hydroton. Some people are saying to toss the seed in the hydroton and let it grow, others say toss seed in rockwool and wait until roots come out from bottom (2-3 weeks) and then hydroton, others are saying to put the rapid rooter in the hydroton and wait for it to germinate in there, while other people are saying to put the seed in a paper towel and then transplant to hydroton when roots develop. Which of these methods do you use?

6) The light I have has two switches. One for vegetation and one for flowering. Some people are saying to only use the vegetation light for the seedlings at this stage, which others are saying to switch on both lights at the same time (full spectrum). Which do you do?

7) Timing of the light: some people are saying they run the light on a 24-0 schedule until it's time to flower. Others are saying 18-6 on vegetation. What hourly schedule do you use for one-week old seedlings? I'd like to point out that between the range of answers I've heard regarding the distance, lighting schedule, and veg/bloom/full spectrum of just the lighting, there are hundreds of different combinations I could do regarding the orientation and wavelength of the light alone. This makes things confusing and frankly, frustrating. Which light cycle do you use and see the best buds form under?

8) Watering. I've heard everything from just to spritz the rockwool once a day, to watering four times a day, to leaving the cubes alone until they are almost dry (6-7 days) and then watering, to leaving cubes in a tray of water with a dome, to not using rockwool at all and watering from the top in the hydroton. What's your take?

9) Germination hood: I have heard to put a hood, to not put a hood, to leave in a lighted area, to leaving in the dark. What's your method?

I have a TON more questions to ask, but my hands hurt from typing. God bless you if you've made it this far into the post. Thank you so much!
 

M386

New Member
Thanks for posting this. I’ve been struggling with this too. Following your post for answers. :)
 
Thanks for posting this. I’ve been struggling with this too. Following your post for answers. :)
You're welcome! Seriously, it has been such a learning process. Tons more questions about air stones/depth to put rockwool/plant in net pots/depth of water in relation to net pot/height of hydroton under the rockwool in the net pot, but going to save that bombardment for another post haha.
 

fragileassassin

Well-Known Member
I would be happy to answer either of your questions any time. Im really quite friendly, I promise.

1. Neither, but definitely not rockwool. It sucks and will make your life harder than needed during seedling and transition into system stages. Idk why anyone still suggests rockwool personally.
2. 5.5-6.4 is fine. I try to stay in the 5.7-6.2 area though.
3. 24-30" is probably a good place to start. If the seedling is tall and stretched out, lower the light. If it burns, raise it. There is no set distance to keep your light.
4. This will depend on the strain. Some can handle a lot of nutrients early, some cant. I usually start about 250-300ppm above my tap water. Some people swear they can shove 700ppm on seedlings, ive never had a plant that could handle more than 500ppm until several weeks old.
5. All of those methods suck imo. Putting a small seedling in a big pot of hydroton is a pain in the ass. Rockwool and rooters require too much attention and the plants take too long to reach the water in both. Paper towel method is for germination only to make sure your seeds pop. Ive never heard of anyone putting a seed right into hydroton. Perlite maybe, but i dont see that working with hydroton.
6. I would use both once theyre a few weeks old. More light wont hurt.
7. They both work. Pick one and use it. My seedlings and clones get 24 hour light from the day they are cut or pop through the coco until the day they get flipped. Your veg light cycle isnt going to change how your buds grow. Flower should always be 12/12 unless youre running autos. If youre curious about the other one, use it next veg. Youre over complicating all of the lighting stuff. 3000/3500 for flower 5000/5500 for veg and Amazon LEDs suck. My preferred distance is as close as I can get them without burning the plants.
8. Rockwool and rooters both need to stay damp and not wet. How often you need to water them will depend on the size you get and a lot of your environmental conditions. Finding this balance is the hard/annoying part of using both and why I found a way to get away from using either. Overwatering seedlings in rockwool or rooters is pretty much the most common way new hydro growers kill them.
9. Seedlings LOVE humidity, but you also need airflow. People make 2 mistakes with humidity domes that hurt them. Make sure the condensation on the top isnt dipping into a spot with a seedling, itll stay too wet. Dont leave the dome on it and forget about it. A few small vent holes and a daily lift for airflow does them well.

10. If you want to do r/dwc, make or buy yourself an aero cloner and forget about rockwool and rooter plugs. You will thank yourself.
11. You need around 15 liters per minute per site for air stones to be effective. Idk how much the drip will help, but if you get rot and temps are good this is the first thing id upgrade..
12. Rockwool in netpots should be level with the top layer of hydroton or just slightly buried. Some people flip a smaller netpot upside down in a larger one to make a little platform to put the cube on. If you put the cude too deep, itll soak up too much moisture and kill your seedling. This is another part of why rockwool sucks. Top feeding in any fashion will make this worse or more difficult to deal with.
13. Water level 1-2" below your netpots at the full level.
14. Seedlings and their transition into the bucket, is the worst part of r/dwc. Its worth spending a few bucks to make it easier and much faster by getting a cloner. Ive used pretty much everything at this point. I have settled on 2 layer seedling trays full of coco+perlite. 4-5 days after they pop up, I pull them up and put them in the cloner for a few weeks to let them grow around 10-12" of roots before I put them in the big system. This is by far the easiest and fastest way ive found to deal with the early stages.
15. You wont feel confident going into your first grow. If you do youre probably going to fail. Youre finding conflicting answers because theres more than 1 way to do pretty much all of this. Some people just like doing things the hard way. Try a variety of things and pick what YOU like.
16. These are my suggestions based on my experience with hydro, take them or dont. I am not saying that my methods are the best or that others dont work. All of them work, this is just stuff ive found thats easier, faster, or works better for me. The proof of everything I said working is in my post linked below, you can decide if I know what im talking about or not.

LOTS of description and pictures in my post about pretty much all of the things ive discussed. Transplant from cloner to veg system is on page 1

This is a less than week old seedling that I put in the cloner.
20200117_225844.jpg
 
Last edited:

.Smoke

Well-Known Member
I would be happy to answer either of your questions any time. Im really quite friendly, I promise.

1. Neither, but definitely not rockwool. It sucks and will make your life harder than needed during seedling and transition into system stages. Idk why anyone still suggests rockwool personally.
2. 5.5-6.4 is fine. I try to stay in the 5.7-6.2 area though.
3. 24-30" is probably a good place to start. If the seedling is tall and stretched out, lower the light. If it burns, raise it. There is no set distance to keep your light.
4. This will depend on the strain. Some can handle a lot of nutrients early, some cant. I usually start about 250-300ppm above my tap water. Some people swear they can shove 700ppm on seedlings, ive never had a plant that could handle more than 500ppm until several weeks old.
5. All of those methods suck imo. Putting a small seedling in a big pot of hydroton is a pain in the ass. Rockwool and rooters require too much attention and the plants take too long to reach the water in both. Paper towel method is for germination only to make sure your seeds pop. Ive never heard of anyone putting a seed right into hydroton. Perlite maybe, but i dont see that working with hydroton.
6. I would use both once theyre a few weeks old. More light wont hurt.
7. They both work. Pick one and use it. My seedlings and clones get 24 hour light from the day they are cut or pop through the coco until the day they get flipped. Your veg light cycle isnt going to change how your buds grow. Flower should always be 12/12 unless youre running autos. If youre curious about the other one, use it next veg. Youre over complicating all of the lighting stuff. 3000/3500 for flower 5000/5500 for veg and Amazon LEDs suck.
8. Rockwool and rooters both need to stay damp and not wet. How often you need to water them will depend on the size you get and a lot of your environmental conditions. Finding this balance is the hard/annoying part of using both and why I found a way to get away from using either. Overwatering seedlings in rockwool or rooters is pretty much the most common way new hydro growers kill them.
9. Seedlings LOVE humidity, but you also need airflow. People make 2 mistakes with humidity domes that hurt them. Make sure the condensation on the top isnt dipping into a spot with a seedling, itll stay too wet. Dont leave the dome on it and forget about it. A few small vent holes and a daily lift for airflow does them well.

10. If you want to do r/dwc, make or buy yourself an aero cloner and forget about rockwool and rooter plugs. You will thank yourself.
11. You need around 15 liters per minute per site for air stones to be effective. Idk how much the drip will help, but if you get rot and temps are good this is the first thing id upgrade..
12. Rockwool in netpots should be level with the top layer of hydroton. Some people flip a smaller netpot upside down in a larger one to make a little platform to put the cube on. If you put the cude too deep, itll soak up too much moisture and kill your seedling. This is another part of why rockwool sucks. Top feeding in any fashion will make this worse or more difficult to deal with.
13. Water level 1-2" below your netpots at the full level.
14. Seedlings and their transition into the bucket, is the worst part of r/dwc. Its worth spending a few bucks to make it easier and much faster by getting a cloner. Ive used pretty much everything at this point. I have settled on 2 layer seedling trays full of coco+perlite. 4-5 days after they pop up, I pull them up and put them in the cloner for a few weeks to let them grow around 10-12" of roots before I put them in the big system. This is by far the easiest and fastest way ive found to deal with the early stages.
15. You wont feel confident going into your first grow. If you do youre probably going to fail. Youre finding conflicting answers because theres more than 1 way to do pretty much all of this. Some people just like doing things the hard way. Try a variety of things and pick what YOU like.
16. These are my suggestions based on my experience with hydro, take them or dont. I am not saying that my methods are the best or that others dont work. All of them work, this is just stuff ive found thats easier, faster, or works better for me. The proof of everything I said working is in my post linked below, you can decide if I know what im talking about or not.

LOTS of description and pictures in my post about pretty much all of the things ive discussed. Transplant from cloner to veg system is on page 1

This is a less than week old seedling that I put in the cloner.
View attachment 4493479
What he said.
You're lucky he was so descriptive and spot on with the advice. Would have saved me months when starting.
Well said. @fragileassassin
 
Hi Fragile,

Great to connect with you; thanks a bunch for consolidating the information and providing such a thorough response! In light of your message, I've ordered the Clone King 36, Cloning Gel and capsules, and coco coir bricks/perlite to create a medium. I will use your approach moving forward. Crazy that the company prides itself on a 100% clone rate. Will certainly have to put that to the test!

While I have you here, I have a couple more questions based on your responses above (not numbered according to the questions or answers above):

1) For the existing rockwool seedlings, the root systems have not begun to appear out of the sides of the cube yet. Do you think it's possible/pragmatic to remove the plant from the rockwool and place it in the cloner when it arrives? Do you foresee any significant dangers in this idea (i.e. high chance of the plant dying in the process of transfer)?

2) I'll certainly turn on both vegetation and bloom when they are a few weeks old. Does that mean for now to shut off blooming and solely keep vegetation on? Also, when you use the cloner, do you solely put them under vegetation while they are in the cloner and then switch to bloom/vegetation when they are in the hydroton? Want to make sure my ducks are in a row when the cloner arrives.

3) Do you put any auxiliary nutrients or other things in the cloner to help the roots get strong? As mentioned above, I've purchased the cloning gel, but as you rightly guessed, these things are coming from Amazon--nothing to go off of besides star ratings, which at times come from unverified purchasers to bolster ratings. If the gel and capsules are fine, I'll do it what way (I believe it's called Clonex or something).

4) Might be an obvious question, but when you say 3000/3500, etc, are you referring to the degrees Kelvin of the lighting utility? Just wanted to make sure that you're not speaking of wattage, because I don't have that kind of electrical horsepower on hand for a 3000 watt bulb.

5) Do you have any suggestions for quiet air pumps that push out 15l/min? The ones that came with the Hydropods I ordered look cheap and weak. I would ideally like something that quietly puts out that much air, but I recognize that that's a tall order, given the output required of the pump. Do you have any recommended size for the air stone/brand for air stone?

Also, nice work on your link--you certainly know what you are doing; thanks a bunch for all of the help! I sincerely appreciate it.

Cheers from Baltimore, MD
 

fragileassassin

Well-Known Member
Awesome, you will be very happy you did.

I never tore apart rockwool cubes, but I did tear some out of some rooter plugs. I was able to tear small chunks of it off until I was able to pull it apart down the center and pull the seedling up. As long as you dont break the plant or the main tap root during this process it will be fine after a couple days in the cloner.
You could go either way with the light. Personally, id just run it on the veg mode a bit closer to save power for right now while they are small. Seedlings dont need much light for the first week or two. I use a fairly weak T8 hood. I just suggested running both because your light isnt super strong.
There are so many different things you can use, just keep in mind that any gels or powders you dip them into will get rinsed off so its better to use something you add to the water imo. I have had great success and near 100% rooting rate with the Dyna-Gro KLN+Pro-tekt combo at recommended rates of 1/2 tsp/gal of the KLN and 1 Tsp/gal of pro-tekt and a small dose of calmag. My tap water is so clean I have to use calmag all the time. My cloner sits 180-200ppm until transplant. Ill throw a couple articles on cloning that I found useful at the bottom.
Yes Kelvin rating. As long as youre somewhere in the area of the spectrums you want for veg and flower, itll grow. When you get into wattage, youll want 30w per square foot of LED or 50w per square foot of hid/hps. The light you have currently is going to be a pretty big disappointment when you get to flower as its only 132w of actual power. Youd need 3 of them for flower if you plan to use the whole tent space. Your temps are kinda low to start with, you might be able to use a 600w or 800w hps for your space. Itd be the cheap option. Good LED for that space will cost you $4-500.
Air pumps can be kinda loud with the sizes we need, but i cant hear mine over the fans. Looks like the smaller pumps I use arent easily available anymore. Its a company called Elemental Solutions, looks like you can still get them on ebay. My big one is a 110 liter per minute active aqua one. The big ones make much less noise if you hang them from the top of your tent or something.
The 10 pack of these stones is one of the best values available.

clone articles I started with.

Also, if you havent looked into sterilization or beneficial bacteria, you should. Its not 100% needed, but its nice to run one as an additive to prevent it in the first place. Since youre in the US, id suggest Southern AG garden friendly fungicide. This is the same bacteria as hydroguard, which you may have heard of, just much much more concentrated so its much cheaper.
 
Fragile, thanks again for your thorough response! I am going to work on following the instructions to the extent that my budgetary and logistical constraints will allow me to.

Awesome, you will be very happy you did.

I never tore apart rockwool cubes, but I did tear some out of some rooter plugs. I was able to tear small chunks of it off until I was able to pull it apart down the center and pull the seedling up. As long as you dont break the plant or the main tap root during this process it will be fine after a couple days in the cloner.

Okay, this is good to hear! I will go ahead and do my best to get the young plants out when the cloner arrives. If all else fails, I will restart the batch (only been 9 days).

You could go either way with the light. Personally, id just run it on the veg mode a bit closer to save power for right now while they are small. Seedlings dont need much light for the first week or two. I use a fairly weak T8 hood. I just suggested running both because your light isnt super strong.

Yeah this definitely sucks to know, but I'm glad you've brought this up. I think I'll work on returning the existing light and swapping out for a better one. Any recommendations on brands or specific devices based on the existing setup?

There are so many different things you can use, just keep in mind that any gels or powders you dip them into will get rinsed off so its better to use something you add to the water imo. I have had great success and near 100% rooting rate with the Dyna-Gro KLN+Pro-tekt combo at recommended rates of 1/2 tsp/gal of the KLN and 1 Tsp/gal of pro-tekt and a small dose of calmag.

I have CalMag, so that's taken care of, but I will put in orders for the above shortly.

My tap water is so clean I have to use calmag all the time. My cloner sits 180-200ppm until transplant. Ill throw a couple articles on cloning that I found useful at the bottom.

This is excellent to know. I will mimic this.

Yes Kelvin rating. As long as youre somewhere in the area of the spectrums you want for veg and flower, itll grow. When you get into wattage, youll want 30w per square foot of LED or 50w per square foot of hid/hps. The light you have currently is going to be a pretty big disappointment when you get to flower as its only 132w of actual power. Youd need 3 of them for flower if you plan to use the whole tent space. Your temps are kinda low to start with, you might be able to use a 600w or 800w hps for your space. Itd be the cheap option. Good LED for that space will cost you $4-500.

Good to know about the lights. I wonder how they get away with advertising 600W if the real draw is only 132W, extremely misleading and a waste of time in the process. As above, a recommendation for a solid light would be wholeheartedly appreciated.

Air pumps can be kinda loud with the sizes we need, but i cant hear mine over the fans. Looks like the smaller pumps I use arent easily available anymore. Its a company called Elemental Solutions, looks like you can still get them on ebay. My big one is a 110 liter per minute active aqua one. The big ones make much less noise if you hang them from the top of your tent or something.
The 10 pack of these stones is one of the best values available.

Stones and Active Aqua will be investigated/purchased in accordance with the above. Thank you so much! If smaller pump is not available, I will go ahead and look for a different manufacturer's model (with the same specifications as the one you've mentioned).


This will be referenced. Thanks for sending!

clone articles I started with.

This will be referenced. Thanks for sending!

Also, if you havent looked into sterilization or beneficial bacteria, you should. Its not 100% needed, but its nice to run one as an additive to prevent it in the first place. Since youre in the US, id suggest Southern AG garden friendly fungicide. This is the same bacteria as hydroguard, which you may have heard of, just much much more concentrated so its much cheaper.

I have a tub of HydroGuard already, but can return and replace with Southern AG if you think it may be better. Let me know and I'll go ahead and make the change. If the cost is the only benefit, I can just use the HydroGuard this grow, and then switch over to SouthernAG when this tub runs out (solely because I've found that returning parcel is extremely annoying).

One last question: Do you have any recommendations to keep the humidity in the tent at about 50? I feel like having a humidifier around water/electrical wires would be a fire hazard. If you feel that a humidifier is the best and safest option, I'd be open to utilizing one in the method you've described.

Thank you so much!!
 

fragileassassin

Well-Known Member
Anytime. Dont hesitate to tag me or msg me whenever you have questions. My start to hydro was pretty rough and I ended up just playing with seedlings and veg methods for most of a year to get those figured out. Now I try to help new hydro growers get a better start so you guys dont have a bad time and give up on it. I absolutely love hydro and cant imagine growing in soil at this point.
Sorry about the bad news on your light. We all feel the same way. I have to deliver that news to someone pretty much every day, it sucks. Itll grow something, but they arent strong enough for anywhere near the space they typically advertise, keeping them really close to the plants can help though. If you have a budget in mind I can point you in the right direction.

-Thats what I did with the hydroguard, I bought it first and switched when it was gone. Its the same strain of bacteria. You can just use like 1/4ml per gal or 1ml to 10 gal instead of 5ml per gal and they cost right about the same per liter, so southern ag is at least 20x more cost effective.
-I use a large room evaporative humidifier to keep my whole basement 45-50%. I just make sure it doesnt blow directly at anything electrical. A small ultrasonic one in the tent should do you well, just make sure to clean it regularly. Once the plants get bigger you may not need it anymore. I have to turn mine off about a week after flip.
Im trying to move away from the wick style evaporative style to make my own ultrasonic mister style but theyre a bit pricey for the size I need and I have other things to upgrade first.
 
Hey Fragile,

I can't thank you enough. I'm definitely going to be adding you to the Rolodex and reaching out if/when something arises. Really really appreciate it. I want to love hydro too, and I'm glad that you've been generous with your knowledge to help out the community. The Internet needs more of you around! I have to admit, starting hydro has been one of the most interesting and genuinely fun hobbies I've ever had. Hoping to have a good method by the end of this year and continue to develop skills.

As far as the light goes, I don't want to spend more than $500 at this juncture. I know that the high-end lights probably cost way more than that, but that's okay. I'm not looking for the Rolls Royce of lights anyway. I'm more so looking for something that will "do its job well" within the grow tent and give the plants a consistent and high-quality light source without me having to interfere or worry about new lights all the time. One that doesn't get super hot would also be appreciated :)

Very good to know about Southern AG. I will do as you had and deplete the Hydroguard prior to shifting to it. Will also look into an Ultrasonic humidifier to keep things in working order. I think the humidifier/fan combo will do the plants some justice.

The DIY humidification video seems extremely useful. I'll definitely look into that prior to hemorrhaging money on Amazon/the internet.

I really appreciate all of the help man! I'm new to this site, so I'm not sure how the back end of it works in terms of "friending" / "following" people on here, but once I figure it out, I will hit you with a follow so we can stay in touch!
 

fragileassassin

Well-Known Member
Thats not a bad budget for your area. Check out this video on the HLG kit assembly.
If you feel like thats something you can do, we can rock your space for $500. I can help you get a kit together for cheaper than their kits. If not, we can still get you setup with something good.
 
Hey man, most certainly! That looks like a great piece of work. I'll have to go out and get a soldering gun, but it should be doable. Which models in particular do you think will suffice? I know Amazon sucks, but looking at one right now by Spider Farmer that has full spectrum 3000k and 5000k. I believe it's the SF-4000. Seems like reviews are good, but increasingly learning that Amazon ratings mean nothing, as they're inflated from fake reviews.
 

nurrgle

Well-Known Member
Shit dude my advice is stop over thinking. The reason you see so much conflicting info is there are a 1000 ways to be successful. You’ll find your preferred as you go. When I started, pre internet and free info days, I got into a bunch of specifics and my teacher gave me the best advice I have gotten.

Plants like simple systems, there is less opportunity for things to go wrong. Once you have a nice headstash, start changing stuff to find your own method.

1. I use both rock wool and plugs. If I was going into a rock wool cube I would use rock wool if I was going into a peat mix I would use plugs. It really is dependent on what you situation is. I would not want any kind of soil plug in my buckets to breakdown and potentially plug the system etc. If your going to use DWC, then you want to use a cloner. I try to keep the cloning medium the same as what I am running the plants in.

2. I keep mines between 6.0-6.2. I have found swings disrupt my grow.

3. I would start lowering the light until you notice the plants acting funny. Probably start at half the number I was thinking then adjust from there.

4. I don’t give nite until I transplant myself. It is very easy to burn your babies

7. I clone under 24 hours then veg at 18-6. I find my growth is best with this schedule

8. You don’t want you cubes soaked, just make sure they are moist

9. Germination hood is absolutely essential in cubes or plugs. I don’t know who or how you would do cubes or plugs without one. I don’t use them in a cloner but that is a different system.
 

fragileassassin

Well-Known Member
So the spider farmers are copies of these lights.
No soldering required. They provide a wire splice for the power cord in their kit and use wago connectors, the amazon links are the same parts they provide in their kit.
This is the best way to do your flower light IMO and it should be considered more important for final product. This will cost you right under $400 and leave you a little left to do something for a veg light. Buying separately is like an $80 savings over what they sold the v1 kits before. They no longer sell them in a kit. the V2 boards are slightly more efficient but come in at 300 per kit.



Throwing one of these 5000k V1 kits up with your current light would likely do well for veg.

4x V1 3000k boards

2x double heat sinks

2x XLG-240-m-ab

18awg solid copper hookup wire $15 each color. Get red+black

1 power cord - you can wire 2x drivers with one or use cheaper 18awg ones for each light $15

wire splice $6.50

10 pack wago connectors $7.50

wire basket hangers $10.00
 
Wow, thank you again for such extensive information and helping out with all of this--I really appreciate it man!

So I've looked at all of the individual links and all of the items seem, for the most part, pretty straightforward from an assembly and operational perspective. My only concern with the setup is that the light itself won't be all-in-one (in the sense that I'll have to use different lights for flower and Veg). It's not the most obscenely debilitating obstacle, but I feel that a comprehensive unit capable of both flower and veg may be slightly better for this grow.

Do you happen to have any suggestions on an all-inclusive unit? The Spider Farmer SF-4000 is $70 higher than the budget I had initially allocated for the light, but I feel that it may be worth it given that it appears to be all-inclusive. Here's the link to the device that I'm looking at:


Do you feel that the unit above would be able to perform both the flowering and vegetation cycles to the degree and precision that the DIY unit you've suggested above would be able to do?

My thought process is that a singular unit would reduce the margin for error as less parts/assembly are involved--in other words, it may justify the premium in price if and only if it is capable of producing the same results as your build while simultaneously not foregoing any qualitative (structural) advantages your build has. I also feel that a combined unit would make the process for finding the vegetative light less cumbersome/laborious.

Just wanted to see if you could take a look at this particular model and see whether it would be viable from a functional perspective--I don't want to buy another VIPARSPECTRA junk light and have to return it, haha.

Thank you man!
 

fragileassassin

Well-Known Member
Sure, plenty of ppl around here are happy with their SF lights. Its just a newer addition to the market that HLG is considered king of around here.
Search function should pull you up several posts with people using it successfully. If I wasnt so dead set on diy everything id probably consider one myself.

The V1 boards unfortunately are sold out of the 5000k but there are other more rounded options. I just tend to get stuck in the mindset of "Good for both is great for neither".
With the V2 boards that are a bit more expensive, you could do all 3500k or split them with 3000k and 4000k. This spread will be a little better for flower imo. I have 3500k boards in my flower tent because I initially wanted to run full cycle under them. Doing this should keep you under your $500 mark. HLG also offers a 10% off code for RIU members.
 

raratt

Well-Known Member

fragileassassin

Well-Known Member
OR, you could build your own strip light fixture..
DIY strip fixtures are great too! All the wiring can just seem intimidating for a new diyer so I tend not to go there
 

raratt

Well-Known Member
DIY strip fixtures are great too! All the wiring can just seem intimidating for a new diyer so I tend not to go there
I like how that site shows the ways to connect them up properly. I worked on aircraft wiring for a long time, so I kinda have a leg up in that area.
 

FADING-SILHOUETTE

Well-Known Member
Hi All,

TLDR: Reading a TON of conflicting opinions on every single question I have about the growing, and need some experts to outline the answers to the numbered questions below once and for all so I can get the process right. I understand this post is extensive, so please don't feel the need to answer every question. If you can contribute to even a single question, I would sincerely appreciate it. God bless!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
N00b here on my first grow. The Internet, regardless of enabling humankind to possess virtually infinite knowledge at its fingertips, has failed to provide a consistent methodology to growing marijuana. In other words, while websites, forums, and advice are abundant, one major thing I am struggling with is the lack of consistency in the information available online regarding growing. I'm taking this to mean two things: 1) many people have found success in many different ways and 2) no uniform method exists. As such, I'm calling on the more experienced growers on this forum to advise on a few key issues whose answers are heavily laden with conflicting opinions online.

Prior to outlining the issues, I'd like to state the current setup.

7 1" by 1" garden-grade (non-industrial) rockwool cubes were soaked for several hours in pH-adjusted water of roughly 5.8. Next, rockwool cubes were removed from water, gently squeezed to remove excess water without destroying the structure of the cube, and seeds were added to pre-cut hole in varying orientations (pointy side up, pointy side down, etc). After the first week, 7 out of 8 sprouted.

I have been keeping the rockwool cubes in a 4' x 4' x 80" tent under a 600W VIPARSPECTRA LED light under ONLY the vegetation light setting (keeping the blooming light setting in the off position) for 24 hours a day. Distance of the light from the tips of the plants is roughly 32". Temperature is 73 degrees Fahrenheit, humidity sits at 35% (put a bucket of water in the tent today in hopes that it would increase moisture). A fan and carbon filter run in the tent to help circulate air. The majority of the sprouts have grown cotyledons, and a few of those have their first true leaves. It has been a total of 8 days since planting. I have 4 8-inch 5-gallon DWC systems and Hydroton. DWC has drip ring. Air pump is 3L/min and I have four of them. Each pump has two outlets, to be connected to each bucket's drip ring and air stone.

While the above may sound reasonable so far, I would like to outline the conflicting opinions I have seen that have made this process impossible to feel 100% confident in (i.e. no matter which method I choose, I always feel like I'm doing something wrong because there's never a consistent answer to any question that I've consulted the Internet for). So as experts, I would like your opinion on the following matters:

1) Rockwool vs. Rapid Rooter. It took me several days to dig through posts and decide which one to choose. Fans are die-hard about both. Which do you use?

2) pH of water. I've heard 5.0-5.5, 5.5-6.0, 5.0 to 6.0, and 5.5 to 6.5. Which do you use?

3) Distance of light from seedlings: Manufacturer says 32" on labeling, people online are saying 12-24, some are saying over 30, and some are saying that the light can touch the leaves. Which do you do?

4) Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) of Water: I've heard everything from 100-700 ppm. Which is ideal for one-week old plants? Some people even say not to use nutrients at all. I put my best sprout into Hydroton and added small amounts of nutrients to the reservoir. After several hours, a fully upright sprout was bending. I got paranoid, and took out the air pumps from the drip rings. I re-calibrated my meter and measured ppm at 671, which falls under the 700 mentioned above. I suspected the bending may have been because of shock from nutrients. The plant is still slight bent. I've ripped up some Rapid Rooter (soaked in water) and propped it against the base of the sprout to help it stand up straight. All leaves on this particular sprout appear green and healthy. Any ideas on what might have caused it?

5) When to transfer the rockwool to the hydroton. Some people are saying to toss the seed in the hydroton and let it grow, others say toss seed in rockwool and wait until roots come out from bottom (2-3 weeks) and then hydroton, others are saying to put the rapid rooter in the hydroton and wait for it to germinate in there, while other people are saying to put the seed in a paper towel and then transplant to hydroton when roots develop. Which of these methods do you use?

6) The light I have has two switches. One for vegetation and one for flowering. Some people are saying to only use the vegetation light for the seedlings at this stage, which others are saying to switch on both lights at the same time (full spectrum). Which do you do?

7) Timing of the light: some people are saying they run the light on a 24-0 schedule until it's time to flower. Others are saying 18-6 on vegetation. What hourly schedule do you use for one-week old seedlings? I'd like to point out that between the range of answers I've heard regarding the distance, lighting schedule, and veg/bloom/full spectrum of just the lighting, there are hundreds of different combinations I could do regarding the orientation and wavelength of the light alone. This makes things confusing and frankly, frustrating. Which light cycle do you use and see the best buds form under?

8) Watering. I've heard everything from just to spritz the rockwool once a day, to watering four times a day, to leaving the cubes alone until they are almost dry (6-7 days) and then watering, to leaving cubes in a tray of water with a dome, to not using rockwool at all and watering from the top in the hydroton. What's your take?

9) Germination hood: I have heard to put a hood, to not put a hood, to leave in a lighted area, to leaving in the dark. What's your method?

I have a TON more questions to ask, but my hands hurt from typing. God bless you if you've made it this far into the post. Thank you so much!
1 Rockwool...just works, is easy and cheap,..

2, I run 5,8 to 5.9 in a 19L DWC,

3, depend on what light you have i generally go wth 2.5 to 3ft ..

4, even un ph'd tap water is fine for up to 2-3 weeks into veg from seed,

5 i just put the rockwool and seed straight in the hydroclay filled net pot and just keep it warm and humid,

6, veg lighting contains more blue when flowering you can use either or or both and an array of or the spectral colors and bandwidths etc ..to be honest you can veg with flowering spectrum ie red too..but the plant will most likely grow thin and lanky like an aneurexic indica dominent strain..possibly with fat leaves ..blue or veg spectrum keeps plants more compact with closer node spacing...

7, 18\6 and 12 12 works just fine, no point wasting unness money on leccy.

8, moist cubes you dont wanna drown it before shes had the chance to florish

9, Heated propergators are great for seedlings and clones.. But clones need some 6400k blewish white light ...

- STELTHY :leaf:
 
Last edited:
Top