EC vs PPM, Why would anyone use PPM

matt7835706

matt7835706

Well-Known Member
Should everyone switching over to EC on the nute meter?

Theirs a ton of talk on here about different levels of nutrients, how much of this, how much of that, but one of the main problems with this is we are using differnt tools to do the same job. If a carpenter took a finishing hammer to frame a house it would be painfully slow and at the same time go the other way, finishing with a framing hammer would be a problem.

We have all seen this when some guy give a newbie advise to use 2100 ppm in bloom and other guys are shaking there heads saying thats crazy, and depending on what meter your using it could be.

EC is the standard on which ALL ppm measurements are calculated. Some PPMS are calculated different than others. EC is universal, the Electrical Conductivity is never different based on brand of meter.

here is a chart to help make my point more clear

PPM-EC-C2.jpg Sorry its so small, I got it from the same place that gave me the idea to begin with.

After I started to use this theory I just can't go back, it took a bit to get use to it but now I just think PPM is bad practice. I don't give advice regarding PPM because its such a dice roll., who know what damage you could do even when you mean to do good!?

We are all looking to achieve the best results lets start using the same measurements so we can understand where others are coming from.

This is just my opinion

Let hear what all you have to say.

Peace


 

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TheWiseInfidel

TheWiseInfidel

Active Member
as a rookie starting my first grow i've researched and heard the same thing that E/C is the only true way to measure nute intake accurately rather than ppm meters since they DO tend to have a few hundred ppm difference from meter to meter which might throw one off. on the other hand i'm doing an semi-organic grow using fox farm nutrients and apparently most organic growers say there isn't a need to check ppm as you would with a hydroponic grow.
 
matt7835706

matt7835706

Well-Known Member
TheWiseInfidel said:
as a rookie starting my first grow i've researched and heard the same thing that E/C is the only true way to measure nute intake accurately rather than ppm meters since they DO tend to have a few hundred ppm difference from meter to meter which might throw one off. on the other hand i'm doing an semi-organic grow using fox farm nutrients and apparently most organic growers say there isn't a need to check ppm as you would with a hydroponic grow.
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For Hydroponics applications
 
GreenThumbSucker

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
matt7835706 said:
Should everyone switching over to EC on the nute meter?Theirs a ton of talk on here about different levels of nutrients, how much of this, how much of that, but one of the main problems with this is we are using differnt tools to do the same job. If a carpenter took a finishing hammer to frame a house it would be painfully slow and at the same time go the other way, finishing with a framing hammer would be a problem. We have all seen this when some guy give a newbie advise to use 2100 ppm in bloom and other guys are shaking there heads saying thats crazy, and depending on what meter your using it could be.EC is the standard on which ALL ppm measurements are calculated. Some PPMS are calculated different than others. EC is universal, the Electrical Conductivity is never different based on brand of meter.here is a chart to help make my point more clearView attachment 2304469 Sorry its so small, I got it from the same place that gave me the idea to begin with.After I started to use this theory I just can't go back, it took a bit to get use to it but now I just think PPM is bad practice. I don't give advice regarding PPM because its such a dice roll., who know what damage you could do even when you mean to do good!?We are all looking to achieve the best results lets start using the same measurements so we can understand where others are coming from.This is just my opinionLet hear what all you have to say.Peace
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PPM conversion is not based on "Brand". The .7 conversion is the standard used in Europe and .5 is the standard used in the US. PPM is calculated by multiplying the EC by either .5 or .7 If you are unsure which factor your pen uses, look at your calibration solution. .5 meters use 1382 PPM calibration solution.There is no difference in accuracy between any of the conversion factors, they are merely different expressions of the same information. Knowing what conversion factor your pen uses is what matters.Information posted on websites like rollitup is almost always expressed using the .7 conversion. If you wish to convert from a .5 meter to a .7 meter, divide the PPM reading by 5 then multiply the result by 7 and you have your conversion. There is no need whatsoever to throw out your PPM pen just because it does not read in EC.
 
matt7835706

matt7835706

Well-Known Member
GreenThumbSucker said:
PPM conversion is not based on "Brand". The .7 conversion is the standard used in Europe and .5 is the standard used in the US. PPM is calculated by multiplying the EC by either .5 or .7 If you are unsure which factor your pen uses, look at your calibration solution. .5 meters use 1382 PPM calibration solution.There is no difference in accuracy between any of the conversion factors, they are merely different expressions of the same information. Knowing what conversion factor your pen uses is what matters.Information posted on websites like rollitup is almost always expressed using the .7 conversion. If you wish to convert from a .5 meter to a .7 meter, divide the PPM reading by 5 then multiply the result by 7 and you have your conversion. There is no need whatsoever to throw out your PPM pen just because it does not read in EC.
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Your missing it, please people don't throw out your ppm meters, thats not what the point is.

You did hit it on the nose when you say that the ppm meters are all calculating the same thing differently, EXACTLY!!! EC is always the same! Thats the point. With PPM meters one says 1500 the other says 1200 that where the problem lies, unless when you helping someone and your supper clear " what nutes are you running, whats you temp, waht you PPM at in the res and what you PPM meter calibration rate ?" seems redundent greenthumbsucker.

Thats the whole point, less question confussion, easy straight forward answers. For some growing is second nature for the newbies it can be overwhelming.

EDIT: Not sure if this applys to all meters and i'm going to bet is doesnt but my meter reads, EC, PPM and CF whatever that is? So for me there was no need for a new meter just a change the setting.
 
mike91sr

mike91sr

Well-Known Member
matt7835706 said:
Explain, more information please.
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One example, co2 meters can determine the concentration with infrared. Nothing to do with electrical conductivity, so ppm would be the easiest way to discuss different matters while having a constant unit of measurement.

Another is when mixing any substance that doesnt conduct electricity, ie concentrations of one element within a synthetic compound like rubber.

And to add on to what you said about meters measuring/displaying both EC and PPM, CF is the conversion factor. You can set it to whatever you choose, so if you want to use nutrient charts just make your meter match whatever the nute company is using. I agree though, even having the conversion factor as a variable makes it pretty much useless when giving specific numbers unless you want to mention your CF every time. So I think we should only use EC for nutrient levels.
 
GreenThumbSucker

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
matt7835706 said:
Your missing it, please people don't throw out your ppm meters, thats not what the point is.

You did hit it on the nose when you say that the ppm meters are all calculating the same thing differently, EXACTLY!!! EC is always the same! Thats the point. With PPM meters one says 1500 the other says 1200 that where the problem lies, unless when you helping someone and your supper clear " what nutes are you running, whats you temp, waht you PPM at in the res and what you PPM meter calibration rate ?" seems redundent greenthumbsucker.

Thats the whole point, less question confussion, easy straight forward answers. For some growing is second nature for the newbies it can be overwhelming.

EDIT: Not sure if this applys to all meters and i'm going to bet is doesnt but my meter reads, EC, PPM and CF whatever that is? So for me there was no need for a new meter just a change the setting.
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The .7 meter never changes, its always the same. The numbers are always the same. Not sure what your point is. They all express the same thing.
 
K

karmeron

Active Member
I prefer using ppm for myself as it is more accurate (you can make tiny adjustments). However when discussing nutes online, it would be easier to quote EC to cut out any mistakes.

Though this commrnent is a bit misleading "If a carpenter took a finishing hammer to frame a house it would be painfully slow and at the same time go the other way, finishing with a framing hammer would be a problem. "
because most meters read in EC and PPM, and if it doesnt you can manually convert it to another value, so it is not the "tool" that is the problem. It is more like the problem that a European person has on US forums with inchs and millimeters/centimeters, people always quote inches on US forums which I usually have to convert to cm manually, Its not a big deal though. If people want to quote ppms they just need to state whether it is .7 or .5 conversion, that is all, no big deal.
 
matt7835706

matt7835706

Well-Known Member
GreenThumbSucker said:
The .7 meter never changes, its always the same. The numbers are always the same. Not sure what your point is. They all express the same thing.
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I'm not talking specifically about the .7 meter thats your baby, I'm lumping them all together, as most people on here do, IE. " my PPM is....". I'm Bringing this to the attention of the grow community is the point or to the top of the pile so to speak.

I'm not here to tell you what you have to do, just throwing an idea out for discussion. I also expected to run into the diehards, so thanks for your contribution
 
matt7835706

matt7835706

Well-Known Member
karmeron said:
I prefer using ppm for myself as it is more accurate (you can make tiny adjustments). However when discussing nutes online, it would be easier to quote EC to cut out any mistakes.

Though this commrnent is a bit misleading "If a carpenter took a finishing hammer to frame a house it would be painfully slow and at the same time go the other way, finishing with a framing hammer would be a problem. "
because most meters read in EC and PPM, and if it doesnt you can manually convert it to another value, so it is not the "tool" that is the problem. It is more like the problem that a European person has on US forums with inchs and millimeters/centimeters, people always quote inches on US forums which I usually have to convert to cm manually, Its not a big deal though. If people want to quote ppms they just need to state whether it is .7 or .5 conversion, that is all, no big deal.
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I've never been so dialed in that I needed to make tiny PPM adjustments in my res. PH I make tiny adjustment all the time.
 
GreenThumbSucker

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
karmeron said:
I prefer using ppm for myself as it is more accurate (you can make tiny adjustments). However when discussing nutes online, it would be easier to quote EC to cut out any mistakes.

Though this commrnent is a bit misleading "If a carpenter took a finishing hammer to frame a house it would be painfully slow and at the same time go the other way, finishing with a framing hammer would be a problem. "
because most meters read in EC and PPM, and if it doesnt you can manually convert it to another value, so it is not the "tool" that is the problem. It is more like the problem that a European person has on US forums with inchs and millimeters/centimeters, people always quote inches on US forums which I usually have to convert to cm manually, Its not a big deal though. If people want to quote ppms they just need to state whether it is .7 or .5 conversion, that is all, no big deal.
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Agree, people need to know what the conversions are because on sites like this one, most folks use the .7 conversion.
 
Saul Good

Saul Good

Active Member
Excellent and infomative thread, folks. Good discussion and a lot to digest. Thanks for the info and charts, Matt. I'm going to do more research on this, but your presentation has many good points.
 
matt7835706

matt7835706

Well-Known Member
oceangreen said:
yea, ppm is my choice. no not all meters are different...

you have the ,5 and the .7.. thats it....
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oceangreen said:
Hey everyone,

I wanted to a direct ppm conversion for the Lucas Formula. How much nute strength to add on a weekly basis. The first Week or 2 should be at %0% strength.

So it should go something like this.

Week 1: 4ml Micro/8 Ml Bloom ( Per 1 Gallon Water) = 600 PPM
Week 1: 4ml Micro/8 Ml Bloom ( Per 1 Gallon Water) = 600 PPM
Week 3: 8ml Micro/16 Ml Bloom ( Per 1 Gallon Water) = 1300 PPM
" "
Week 12: 8ml Micro/16 Ml Bloom ( Per 1 Gallon Water) = 130 PPM

Does that sound about right?
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This is your thread........ No replys.........Thanks for stopping by
 
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