Extraction methods. Need help and explanations.

JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
Orre,
I've been reading about extracts...and if you want to preserve flavor and still be edible, you might consider using vegetable glycerine. If you do a cold extraction (takes months)...you end up with an enhanced syrup (less sweet then sugar). I made a small batch but it wasn't as strong as I'd hoped. But the beauty of it is you just add some to sweeten your tea and oila...super tea.
Cheers,
James
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
From all the evidence it seems that extracting pot directly into edible oils is the most efficient method for medicinal value. BHO and other concentrates are aimed mainly for the 'stoner' crowd which is the vast majority of users. If everyone was honest it's likely 90% of people with medical cards anywhere got them under false pretenses so they could score cheaper pot legally. Not that I blame them but abuses using the medical pot systems here in Canada perpetuate the bad name cannabis has with non-users.

When you have Skype docs handing out outrageous grams per day medical permits for huge amounts of cash so pot pushers can legally grow huge crops they are going to sell illegally it makes it hard for guys like me. Between my wife's and my medical we could legally grow 92 plants if we registered with Hellth Canaduh but I don't register with anything I don't have too. If I ever get busted I'm hoping our med permits will save us from harsh penalties or even seizure of plants and gear. I don't sell openly and rarely have had more than a dozen plants going at a time. I'm getting into breeding CBD strains and fem seeds so may have 50+ plants going at once but most will be culled and few will be chosen to flower.

I'm looking at getting into making distillates too but that's down the road a bit. With a diploma in chemistry it's not a huge deal to figure out how to do it on the cheap. Us old age pensioners got to have mad skills to not have to pay retail and I'm chock full of those! :)

Recent research is saying that pot destined for edible/medicinal value doesn't need to be decarbed and may be more effective if it's not. If that is true then a patient could take much higher doses of THC without getting so high which would be very f'n good. All the terpenes could be preserved too. The decarb for edibles is so you get higher off it and another 'stoner' thing. Nothing wrong with being a stoner and that was my mode for almost 50 years but I'm way swung over to the medpot side now tho got nothing against getting blazed now and then either.

I've been approved for a medical micro-dosing magic mushroom dispensary recently and the only reason I haven't placed an order is the cost. I used to pick buckets of 'shrooms in the Fraser Valley 40 years ago and wish I still lived out there. Not just for the 'shrooms but the salmon/steelhead fishing, climate, people, opportunities, life etc etc etc! I hate northern Alberta so f'n much!

Just got an extra grand for back payments on my pension so gonna grab me some 'shrooms! If it actually helps in a serious way long term then I'll spend some more to start growing my own. Like pot I can't afford not too.

:peace:
 
O

orre

Member
@kgp Thanks for commenting! And I can surely understand the fascination for purified products! ;-)

@JohnDee Hi! And thank you for the input about glycerine! Making a quick search one of the first thinks that came up is just as you say, a sweet and palatable tincture! The other thing I see is it might lack in phytocannabinoids, and that is kind of my main concern to avoid!...
Also cold extraction for months doesn't seem too appealing... :p But I guess you can also heat glycerine?
I have to look into that medium too! Thank you!

@OldMedUser Thank you for sharing experiences!
It is surely interesting what you say about THCA! I have also been seeing there might be benefits of THCA and not decarbing. And probably CBDA?.. Also in the sense of not frightening my old lady that have hardly ever been really stoned, and doesn't even drink... :p
Of course it should makes sense to anyone there might be benefits NOT altering a medical plants natural structure! I surely also have no doubt THC and CBD is of great importance! -and maybe other possible molecule structure changes during decarb I do not know about.. But one would not need to exclude the other!!...

This is why I had the idea of e.g. pressing rosin oil of the bud and decarb that, and use the residues in a few hours ~95°C oil bath! -Or QWISO or any other soution for that matter!...
I am now also reading alcohol solution is gaining more phytocannabinoids, but I do not know if that is just in comparision with glycerine?

As said, I find the article in my first post interesting! Specially in the means of using oil as medium! So I would appreciate if someone with knowledge would comment it! :)

I would surely also want a comment to @Fadedawg claim that its all in the Trichomes!?..

Thanks!
/Orre
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
orre said:
@Fadedawg Thank you very much bothering to educate a noob on the other side of the planet!
I am really grateful and humble that you want to share your knowledge! If it doesn't seem that way I have to blame language... :p :peace:

So you are saying the simple answer to all my questions is that ALL components of matter is all in the Trichomes! and do not bother look further??...

This is what I have tried to figure out all along, what this post is all about, and why I keep nagging about the ECS and Entourage effect!...
To me, this form of thinking "balance" and "synergy" does make perfect sense! (And I believe a 5000 year old Chinese medicine man wouldn't be too impressed..)
Now with NO knowledge for either medicine or bioscience, my simple brain have interpret this as probably ALL part of the plant would carry substances, that might ALL be contributing in a way!
-Even if the modern science cannot see or prove it to day!...

With this idea of it all, I must say I haven't even considered that harvesting Trichomes only, could be even half the truth!?... :roll:
My only real experience is from smoking hashish at a daily bases for at least 25 years, but I have never considered it to be medicine!... :p

Yes I have understood that Rick Simpson's main interest was harvesting THC! But to me, crushing and boiling all the plant material for hours seemed to be a way of getting more out of the plant! (even if not understood or spoken of) -Yes of course a preconceived opinion...

@Fadedawg Sorry if I should have known about this, but when you say "We've supplied Holy Anointing Oil and Holy Shit to multiple patient......", I get the impression that you have studied the medical side of cannabis quite a bit!?
I would love if you can point me in the direction of where to get some more true understanding in this field!!

Yes of course I see the "recreational" side of things is far more advanced! But so it is with just about anything in this world!..
-I might be uncomfortable to even start my motorcycle, because of that missing "nice thing", that someone else will never even see the difference if it's there or not... This doesn't necessary say anything about the NEED for the "thing"... :p

Absolutely no disrespect intended! I just try to explain my thinking.

Do you also consider NOT decarbing parts of a decoction to be overkill? (e.g. like mentioned above both pressing and oil-extracting) I am reading terpenes might have grate value, but will get lost over certain temperature!...
My plan to get going as soon as possible, was to use the Hemp-CBD-oil we have bought close to legal, and spice it up with THC. -But if it is that easy to gain the potent ingredients myself without buying CBD-oil, of course that is much more interesting!
(Problem is to get started before having any plants of my own, as the cannabis prices here are totally off the roof!) :(

I am just thinking, with intent of using this fascinating plant by means of give relieve and even the possibility to cure people in pain, I do not want to pull half the possible remedy out the drain!!
I am reading there might be something like 500? chemicals and close to 150? different cannabinoids!!!.... :o
I beleive this might not be only the Trichomes!?... But again, hwo knows of the value?.......

I am sorry you lost those lab reports!
Looking at the one I added to the first post here, it doesn't seem one should ignore the value of different methods though....
I understand you have given me some cleaner alternatives, but I still find it fascinating!
I would love some comments to it! ;)

Thanks!
/Orre
Click to expand...
I believe the entourage effect to be in play, but looking at what is extracted from the rest of the plant, I don't see the relatively inert ~C-30 plant waxes doing more than diluting the concentrate. C-40 B-Carotene is a good thing for eyesight, C-55 Chlorophyll is salubrious in reasonable doses, and not sure what part Pheophytin plays (deprotonated chlorophyll). I've not read anything that suggests they have proven effective against cancer.

The question is are they responsible for the medicinal effects of cannabis essential oils, or are they just another diluent in this application. The medicinal effects of cannabis has been attributed to its phytocannabinoids on our bodies endocannabinoids systems. Not just THC, but the mix of cannabinoids. There is ample evidence that they can be effective against cancer, even when they are overheated and many of the terpenes driven off, such as with the Rick Simpson rice cooker purge.

The essential oils also contain the C-10/15 mono and sesquiterpenes, all of which are transdermal aromatic hydrocarbons, and have medicinal effects. One might expect their medicinal effects would vary considerably, as does the rations of the different mono and sesquiterpenes in the different strains.

Dr Robert Melamede dedicated his research to the effects of phytocannabinoids on our endocannabinoid systems, and who I would recommend that you contact for the latest and greatest research results.

medicalmarijuana411.com

Dr Robert Melamede PhD on the Endocannabinoid System - Medical Marijuana 411

Hi, I'm Dr Robert Melamede PhD. I'm a professor at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. I was the former chairman of the biology department there. And currently in addition to my role as professor I am also the CEO and president of Cannabis Science a publicly traded company on the...
medicalmarijuana411.com medicalmarijuana411.com
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg said:
I believe the entourage effect to be in play, but looking at what is extracted from the rest of the plant, I don't see the relatively inert ~C-30 plant waxes doing more than diluting the concentrate. C-40 B-Carotene is a good thing for eyesight, C-55 Chlorophyll is salubrious in reasonable doses, and not sure what part Pheophytin plays (deprotonated chlorophyll). I've not read anything that suggests they have proven effective against cancer.

The question is are they responsible for the medicinal effects of cannabis essential oils, or are they just another diluent in this application. The medicinal effects of cannabis has been attributed to its phytocannabinoids on our bodies endocannabinoids systems. Not just THC, but the mix of cannabinoids. There is ample evidence that they can be effective against cancer, even when they are overheated and many of the terpenes driven off, such as with the Rick Simpson rice cooker purge.

The essential oils also contain the C-10/15 mono and sesquiterpenes, all of which are transdermal aromatic hydrocarbons, and have medicinal effects. One might expect their medicinal effects would vary considerably, as does the rations of the different mono and sesquiterpenes in the different strains.

Dr Robert Melamede dedicated his research to the effects of phytocannabinoids on our endocannabinoid systems, and who I would recommend that you contact for the latest and greatest research results.

medicalmarijuana411.com

Dr Robert Melamede PhD on the Endocannabinoid System - Medical Marijuana 411

Hi, I'm Dr Robert Melamede PhD. I'm a professor at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. I was the former chairman of the biology department there. And currently in addition to my role as professor I am also the CEO and president of Cannabis Science a publicly traded company on the...
medicalmarijuana411.com medicalmarijuana411.com
Click to expand...
There are so many unknown unknowns at his stage of cannabis research thanks to almost a century of hard core prohibition tho much as been done in countries like Israel where they have been very active for the last couple of decades compared to US/Canada, Even to this date Hellth CanaDuh still states that cannabis has no known medicinal effect but are still in charge of regulating our medicinal program. How Duh is that?

As an elder boomer with over 50 years of pot use under my belt I can only decry the lack of understanding that has resulted from a century of propaganda about the 'Devil's Weed!' Even my 92 yo mother is amazed it took so long for sanity to start to appear.

The major obstacle to pot research has always been Big Pharma and other corporate interests. They are the main reason that the US federal gov't keeps cannabis, including hemp, on Schedule 1 with heroin, and other 'non-medical' drugs with a high propensity for addiction.

It's laughable but our reality. Even tho BC. Canada and Washington, US share borders and both have legal recreational pot laws you can't take pot across the border because border laws are federal and US federal law says all pot is illegal! I flew out to BC from Alberta with 6oz of pot last November with no worries but if our flight had got diverted to a US airport I could have been seriously impacted! It's happened to many flights the last few years.

If you are a person of colour the chances of you being a target of security are 10X that of a seriously white guy like me. I'm a long-haired red head old fart who looks like a pot user but if you look like a brown lawyer you're the guy they'll pull over for a better look. Sorry about that but I'm not going to jump up and down and say take me instead. I probably have more to hide.

I used to cross the border to go down to Lynden, WA twice a week when I lived 3 miles from the Aldergrove crossing back in the day. Smuggled two cartons of Camel 100s every 2 weeks for almost 20 years. Got pulled over 3 times and never busted. Hauled a few pounds of pot back in the day but it was even easier. Since 9/11 and America's submission to authoritarian rule I gave up travelling to the US an probably never will again. Damned if I will get a passport to visit a country I freely visited all my life. Getting pissed at the Breaker's in Pt. Roberts then cruising home on my Bonney was great then getting pissed at the Maple Leaf Tavern in Sumas, WA then cruising home drunk off my ass to Aldergrove, BC at 4 am was cool too.

The US and it's past/current drug war policies are still the biggest barriers to serious evaluation of cannabis as medication. How many brown/black people are doing serious time for non-violent pot/drug possession crimes in pay-for-profit prisons compared to us white boys. Fug all really and it isn't right at all. No one of any colour should do jail time for passing a joint or selling a bag of bud. The major harm from pot is the penalties of using it not from the pot itself.

Federally us Canadians are a lot cooler about pot but as we kiss US ass to survive we gotta support the corporate schism. When will any of us live under an honest government eh?

:peace:
 
JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
orre said:
Also cold extraction for months doesn't seem too appealing... :p But I guess you can also heat glycerine?
Click to expand...
Yes, but you then lose terpines. I did a hot extraction, but my experience was that it lacked potency for me (high tolerance). For cold extraction...it's suggested to rotate jars daily or build a little automated device to do it. Just to move the glycerine around a bit.

I used to fill tequila bottles with bud and tequila and stick them under the sink for a year. Green Tequila we called it...good stuff. But that was 25 years ago. Methods have improved. lol
JD
 
O

orre

Member
@Fadedawg Ok thank you for not completely throwing the idea of substances other then Trichomes might play a rolle, out the window!

As it kind of seems to be the case with just about EVERYTHING in this world, I would surely be amazed if it wouldn't apply to cannabis!!!...
I must say I am stunned by the fact I cannot find or get hardly any real feedback for this to me NO.1 question!?... :?:

But thank you for the -411-link @Fadedawg !
I found two very nice YouTube clip there from a Dr. Jake Felice.
At the latter he addresses different aspects of Terpenes and different strains. I do not know anything about strains but taste, so that surely sound worth looking into!
Also what I understand that implies cold extractions methods really are of interest! -Thanks @JohnDee !8-)

@OldMedUser Cannabis has been grown and used for probably the whole of mankind. The prohibition situation is probably all to blame on those bloody oil and paper farts from late 1800/early 1900. DuPont, Mellon, Hearst, Anslinger.... :fire:
Did you know Rudolf Diesel built his engine for vegetable oil, and Henry Ford for bio-ethanol? -And intended his whole car industry to rely on "farmers work", and as late as in the 1940's built a "the world's first carbon-negative car" made of hemp-plastic ten times as strong as steel!...
Or that we could actually replace more or less ALL plastic from our daily life use with hemp!...
Or replace enormous amounts of the cotton industry, that is THE biggest consumer of pesticide, and responsible for enormous amount of poison ruining the drinking waters at places where it is most vulnerable! -When Hemp doesn't even need any insecticides!...
Or that paper industry is responsible for about 50% of all forest harvest! and that in 4 month, 1 hectare Hemp could produce as much pulp as it takes 4 hectare tree 20 YEARS to produce!!...
Or that you can build more or less your whole house from poison-free hemp products!...

Or that all those "Marijuana Devils Weed" propaganda was deliberately put out with that racism rhetoric by that bloody newspaper fucker Herst, his buddy Mellon, and his nephew Anslinger, at a time no one now what Marijuana was, or even had any idea it had something to do with Hemp!!
It doesn't even have ANYTHING to do about drugs!!! -Hell, it was even laid out to the congress as a tax reform!!... -It is ALL about the money!!!... >:(

Today on the other hand, it is obviously the pharmaceutics companies that are given all the control!
At least here in Scandinavia the governments has now classified ALL hemp as medical!?... What The F_ck??!!???....
It is so f_cking outrageous I can't believe how anyone could still talk about those governments as "democratic"......
I f_cking puke about it!!! :spew:

Ps. About the Heroin comparison and why countries all around the would have embraced this fairytale, I seems to me it is all about UN and the Narcotics Convention that all member states signed back in the 1960's...
As probably said, here in Norway it is still not even legal to grow industrial hemp!... :(
 
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JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
orre said:
I f_cking puke about it!!! :spew:
Click to expand...
Dude...relax your mind. The absurdities of our governments is legedary.

In Left Hand of Darkness (Le Guin) the Gethonian leaders were all insane (a requirement of the job) and assassination was the only way to get out of office. Ursula was having a little fun mocking politics...but in truth that system is probably better then our current one. :wall:
JD
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
orre said:
@Fadedawg Ok thank you for not completely throwing the idea of substances other then Trichomes might play a rolle, out the window!

As it kind of seems to be the case with just about EVERYTHING in this world, I would surely be amazed if it wouldn't apply to cannabis!!!...
I must say I am stunned by the fact I cannot find or get hardly any real feedback for this to me NO.1 question!?... :?:

But thank you for the -411-link @Fadedawg !
I found two very nice YouTube clip there from a Dr. Jake Felice.
At the latter he addresses different aspects of Terpenes and different strains. I do not know anything about strains but taste, so that surely sound worth looking into!
Also what I understand that implies cold extractions methods really are of interest! -Thanks @JohnDee !8-)

@OldMedUser Cannabis has been grown and used for probably the whole of mankind. The prohibition situation is probably all to blame on those bloody oil and paper farts from late 1800/early 1900. DuPont, Mellon, Hearst, Anslinger.... :fire:
Did you know Rudolf Diesel built his engine for vegetable oil, and Henry Ford for bio-ethanol? -And intended his whole car industry to rely on "farmers work", and as late as in the 1940's built a "the world's first carbon-negative car" made of hemp-plastic ten times as strong as steel!...
Or that we could actually replace more or less ALL plastic from our daily life use with hemp!...
Or replace enormous amounts of the cotton industry, that is THE biggest consumer of pesticide, and responsible for enormous amount of poison ruining the drinking waters at places where it is most vulnerable! -When Hemp doesn't even need any insecticides!...
Or that paper industry is responsible for about 50% of all forest harvest! and that in 4 month, 1 hectare Hemp could produce as much pulp as it takes 4 hectare tree 20 YEARS to produce!!...
Or that you can build more or less your whole house from poison-free hemp products!...

Or that all those "Marijuana Devils Weed" propaganda was deliberately put out with that racism rhetoric by that bloody newspaper fucker Herst, his buddy Mellon, and his nephew Anslinger, at a time no one now what Marijuana was, or even had any idea it had something to do with Hemp!!
It doesn't even have ANYTHING to do about drugs!!! -Hell, it was even laid out to the congress as a tax reform!!... -It is ALL about the money!!!... >:(

Today on the other hand, it is obviously the pharmaceutics companies that are given all the control!
At least here in Scandinavia the governments has now classified ALL hemp as medical!?... What The F_ck??!!???....
It is so f_cking outrageous I can't believe how anyone could still talk about those governments as "democratic"......
I f_cking puke about it!!! :spew:
Click to expand...
You seem to have discovered the facts that I have known and studied since my teens. Amazing isn't it. I was at the first Easter Be-In in Vancouver when I was 16 and that was basically a pot protest with live music in beautiful Stanley Park.

With all the awareness now about how plastics are not the wonder material we thought it was hemp should soon begin replacing a lot of it. The new car smell will change again for the better I hope. Plastics off-gassing is not the smell I want.

Even tho pot has always been prohibited here, (still is), North America has had a lot more openness about pot than the rest of the world for most of my life. I smoked my first joint when I was 14 and took acid a few days later.

Now that you are more aware you need to spread the word so you can help free the plant in your country too. We still have a long way to go but end is nigh!

:peace:
 
O

orre

Member
@OldMedUser Ha ha ha.... I am glad you're an optimist! :D Sorry to say I don't have more influence then someone else... :p
I do not know why you assume I haven't known this all my life too? -As well as hundreds of thousands others, having a blast smoking and dancing, diggin' groovy music and eating tiny little pieces of papers with drips on them in parks all over the world!!...

But as I started out to tell, it is not until now its (here in Scandinavia) STARTING to be possible to even mention cannabis without someone biting your head of! And to be able to do that with both my kids and my parents, and piece by piece with others in my life, and hopefully soon even with neighbours and more peripheral accountancies, THAT I find extremely satisfying!!
Not to mention how satisfying it would be to maybe even be able to help those that are ill!!

The in my eyes REALLY BIG benefits of Cannabis has nothing to do neither with pot or medicine. -It's as mentioned above the industrial hemp!!
Now THAT is BIG BUSINESS! An I am sorry to say, that discussion seems to once again being buried. -This time by the pharmaceutical industry!...
Why I wrote it, is because I am quite sure that even at this kind of fora, people younger then me and you Mr. User do not know anything about the real story! And at this time MOST people are younger then us... ;)
Who, through all your life, has believed that talk to be anything but another pot-head conspiracy theory!?... :(

But I agree the winds are changing! and to me right now, it means I can talk to people, and I can write on this forum without pseudonym! and that IS a big win! :)
AND! If I can help my loved ones and close friends with medical issues I would be absolutely delighted!!

To get back to the medical question.
Extracting with oil of any kind (olive, coco, glycerine). In the article I posted they heated the oil to just under 100°C in waterbath I think, and presented very much higher terpene numbers then with the other methods. -I have thought that it is because terpenes doesn't start escaping before something like 115°-120°C? Isn't that correct?

Also, I once again try to get a clear answer, are all this terpenes and cannabinoids present in the Trichomes??
(And would also be extracted by for example a QWISO?)

/Orre
 
JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
orre said:
(And would also be extracted by for example a QWISO?)
Click to expand...
Hi Orre,
I'm just a beginner at extractions, but I"ll tell you what I know. I've been doing QWET with about 4 pounds so far. You need to dry and decarb first ...all terps are gone.

No experience with making smokeables.
JD
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Oil and glycerin extractions hold on to the most terpenes, because they aren't later reduced by evaporating away the solvent, but you are limited in potency for that same reason.

A technique used around here to improve the terpene content, is freeze drying and pulling the terpenes off first under vacuum, extracting the essential oils, and after purging, adding the terpenes back.

If you extract with LPG at -30C or lower, you won't pick up as many fats and lipids, so winterizing isn't required, and more terpenes are retained.

As for medicinal effects, all the terpenes have them and together they provide an entourage effect, based on the mix. As the mix changes, so does the medicinal effect.

I remain tongue in cheek as to how much that entourage effects all applications, based on the number of seriously ill and end of life patients we furnished winterized LPG extract or QWET pro bono, who were cured or went into remission.

As for terpenes escaping, the monoterpenes are aromatics, with high vapor pressure, and do so at room temperature, which is why they stink up a room even double bagged. Heat just speeds it up.
 
O

orre

Member
Thank you guys for the inputs! I am starting to somewhat see a thread in this...

@Fadedawg I can appreciate your fishing and patient experiences, and I can see why you tell me not to complicate things...
I will certainly also keep that Holy Shit recipe in mind!

But then again, I do not believe I have ever asked about cancer medicine! but about extraction ways to not disturb the possible very important entourage effects from cannabis as a whole plant. -I understand that is a controversial theme, but that is the story about Cannabis in a nutshell isn't it!... ;)

Thank you for pointing me to more studies!
Reading more about its medical effects, it stands quite clear that terpene and terpenoid variations is NOT to be ignored!
The medical studies about it is for sure fascinating, and what I understand those substances come in to play already in very low doses! (not only found in Cannabis btw!)
Reading that those smelly and tasty terpenes is not only for having a pleasant smoke, but also playing a role for medical purpose, does make it quite clear why RSO looses interest from any feinescmeckers, either medical or not. -That raw decoct was never intended to be other then a possibly life-saving heavy THC-dosage stuff, and even for that there are obviously much better ways of doing it!..

@JohnDee Yes I understand about decarbing away the terps, but I am still not sure what temperature you need for to complete the decarbing process? -I've read people doing it in just above 100°C but for longer time like an hour or so? -If so, why isn't it considered decarbed after simmering in oil for several hours??...

Also I have yet to understand what temperatures are setting off the terpenes/terpenoides?
I am thinking for an oil extraction it would help even if you only have let say 50°C oil compared to cold?

I would also like to know about the value of keeping THCA/CBDA as @OldMedUser mentioned, and not decarb at all!?
As said, thinking it might be of value to combine medical oil from different extraction methods.
Freeze drying and vacuum as @Fadedawg mention sounds a bit too complicated and expensive for a small personal setup. But what about e.g. freezer quick-wash with the alcohol evaporating without heating?

I also want to ask as I see both @Fadedawg and @JohnDee refer to QWET.
Do I understand it correct that the only difference between Ethanol wash and IPA wash is that Ethanol is safer digesting?
(Too bad I have been moonshining for a living for decades, but now only have a couple of litres left... ha ha ha...) :p

/Orre :peace:

Ps.)
Just about to post this I came to look at the decarbing table I have seen before here and there, but that I now understand are quite important both holding exact temperatures and times. And what I understand would work fine also with an oil extraction @ only 80°C!?...
Could someone please elaborate!?

-Another thing I just found is I believe from an old @OldMedUser post, where he say:
"Contrary to what some people think you can't do the oil one way and use it for everything; "
Click to expand...
Followed by a colourful picture of a wheel with different illnesses and what cannabinoids that would address them best!
-This is surely complicating things way beyond what I have yet heard here!?
Is it old news? Please tell me more!!! :D
 
JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
orre said:
@JohnDee Yes I understand about decarbing away the terps, but I am still not sure what temperature you need for to complete the decarbing process? -I've read people doing it in just above 100°C but for longer time like an hour or so? -If so, why isn't it considered decarbed after simmering in oil for several hours??...
Click to expand...
Everyone is so adamant about decarbing that I don't like to discuss it. But yes...I made cannabudder and made killer cookies with no decarb for 3 decades before someone here told me I was doing it wrong. Yes, a good simmer and a bake in the oven is enough.

I do decarb before doing a qwet batch because I use it orally...not dabs. And I too believe the entourage effect is real. Throwing CBD into the mix really makes a difference.
JD
 
O

orre

Member
@JohnDee Well... I can appreciate what you mean... -Ill tell you a little story:
As I mentioned I have been making quite a lot of alcohol for many years. A friend of mine taught me his secrets and got me going. He was a really great self-made "scientist" in the matter and did fine-tune and simplify the process to the limit! -The outcome was better, stronger, faster, cleaner and more volume per input then what IS scientifically actual possible! (It should be a quite simple mathematics task) It went threw several lab tests, and was concluded "not possible" to achieve in the simple matter we did. Even once a whole chemistry class from the local university manage to talk their way to the cooking cellar at the time, by deeply and honestly promise to never ever reveal the location, to study and get stunned by how he got that extra couple of precents beyond the possible limit!... Quite funny actually! :p
-For us, those extra percent was free raw material, and besides the quality and that we made a batch twice as fast as anyone else, had a clear business advantage... ;)

Anyway. The Entourage effect is a fact! not a belief?? :?:

And I don't know how scientific this graph is, but it's sure easy to read!... Except I don't know if it means those lower temperatures would just keep marginally rising yield over hours?. Also I do not understand why use such odd numbers?
I would like to see this graph compared with tepene/terpenoid loss!

decarb.JPG
 
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Freedom seed

Freedom seed

Well-Known Member
I made several batches with coconut oil and fresh material right off the plant to try thca and cbda. It seemed to work well for some of my problems but not all of them. It did remove inflammation. There was hardly a buzz to it at all which means a person with a low tolerance could eat more of it. The scent and flavours were fantastic it definitely preserved some terpenes.

We went right back to the decarbed coco extract for regular use.

Orre have you ever considered eating hash? I regularly eat my dry sift decarbed and not. And iso RSO but with a longer soak so it turns green.

I like the whole plant extracts, and it saves work (no trimming) :D
 
O

orre

Member
@Freedom seed I am happy to hear about THCa/CBDa, and I also understand it might be a disappointment somehow. I am actually thinking of doing both decarbed oil and not, and experiment about it a bit. Maybe even combine?... :)

I can stuff my self with what ever! ha ha ha... But it is many years ago I kind of lay of the hashish... I do very well remember the taste though, and I do not think I can get my lady to eat that... :p
It should also be a matter of decarbing though, and of course you can do tinctures from hash. But at this time, being "off the wagon" for nearly two decades, and wanting to introduce it to others that might not be familiar with cannabis at all, i kind of want to be "closer to the plant"!... If it makes sense?...
I do also feel like that is the right approach to solely medical use...

I vote for using the whole plant! ;)

I just now have found there are highly concentrated full spectrum crumble made from hemp to by. Also with added terpenes if wanted.
At the same time I have found the "tCheck" apparatus measuring total amount of cannabinoids in both plant material, oil and alcohol.
So I am thinking I might dilute both full spectrum CBD oil, and THC oil separately, and then combine them in different volumes...

Please chime in anyone that votes against the tCheck!!
Specially if you have any alternatives to DIY potency check!

As mentioned I want to be sure I can start low so not to scare people.
I sure remember how bloody hard edibles can hit! -And long!... :o

/Orre
 
JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
orre said:
So I am thinking I might dilute both full spectrum CBD oil, and THC oil separately, and then combine them in different volumes...
Click to expand...
I did that last winter with cannabudder I made from Sebring's Revenge (cbd) plus some made with a sativa I had grown. Gave me a lovely joint loosening sativa high. I miss those snickerdoodles...need to bake some more.
JD
 
Freedom seed

Freedom seed

Well-Known Member
Orre, I have been mixing Jack Herer with a cbd plant (was a cbd only pheno of a 1:1 hybrid) and the results are fantastic. Better than the Jack alone. It’s the go to around here.

Keep in mind that a lot of landrace has cbd in the gene pool and it gets bred out to make the high thc strains. Hash often has cbd because they are mixing many plants together.

For testing there is a great thread here somewhere explaining diy thin line chromatography, and also look into the Beams test for cbd. The Beams is real easy to set up for.
 
O

orre

Member
@Freedom seed @JohnDee Thank you for the input. It certainly looks like I should continue in those thoughts!
I have now ordered two different hemp concentrates. One of them with 38% CBC! and with several terp's added. Exited to try it out!
Also ordered a small amount of some Indica dominant landrace. Bloody expensive... Looking forward to see what I can get out from it!
It is a while before I can harvest anything of my own. (And as said, we are not even allowed to grow hemp up here...) :(

Yes I have looked into that "thin line chromatography", and I read it is a quite reliable and consistent method. But it looks so bloody cumbersome... Both the process and reading those fade dots....

The Beams test sounds similar to another one I have seen with sodium hydroxide and active charcoal. Seems easy enough! :)
Does not tell about THC though...

If understand correct, the "tCheck" only see the TOTAL of cannabinoids, but for what I am planning that might also be all I need. It also seems bloody simple to use!! It has an accuracy spec. of +/- 10% (+/- 15% for decarbed material) So it is not VERY exact though. And I would have to stay out of hemp oil as carrier. (I was planning to use MCT anyway...)
Also for it to work I would need to keep high CBD vs high THC infested solutions separated for testing, and then mixing by calculation. -This is partly also why I found it highly interesting to buy hemp concentrates with a lab-report to calculate from!
The big "variable" would be illegal growing (or buying) THC strains. Here even a 10-15% margin would be extremely useful! compared to trying to "feel" it!!... :p
"tCheck" is not very cheap, but neither is those disposable chromatography tests I have seen! -And "tCheck" should not wear out if you take care of it!

Please tell me if you think I am totally astray!

It is really strange no low cost competition for DIY potency tests is to be found! Ultraviolet spectrometry sounds easy enough? I've tried to search China sites too with no luck?... I guess it is because the ease of sending to a test lab where it is legal...
For the three times more expensive "MyDx" I read in various reviews people reporting it as a total scam!... :(

/Orre :leaf:
 
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