fan leaf removal???

hey i have been checkin out alot of photos on here and notice that most of the plants in there end stages of flowering don't have any fan leaves present! from what i have read i was under the impression that the fan leaves shouldn't be removed unless they are shading nice bud sites. can anyone clear this up for me?? on my last 2 grows i had removed all the lower(probably 6-8 sets)fan leaves with about 2 weeks left to flower. i was growing under some bogus 70w hps(4) and 70w mh(2) and my yeilds were minimal, like 8-14g a plant. i know the lighting played a huge part in the yeild but could removing the fan leaves affect them also?? so whats the deal with the fan leaves?

My fan leaves have always died off as the plant moves through flowering. Not sure if it is natural or if they just get blocked out from the light or what, but they slowly wither away starting with the bottommost first. The rule of thumb I go by is when a fan leaf is more then half yellowed I snip it.

yeah picasso is right. most people here start flushing their plants 2 weeks before harvest. with no time realeased fertilizer in the soil the plant doesnt have enough nutrients to keep the whole plant alive. so basically it starts sending all the nutes/energy to the buds and lets the leaves die off. and also there are a lot of extremely amazing growers on here who just grow these plants that are pretty much all one big dense nug lol.

they will show deficiencies and die off even if you fert up to the end like i do.

.....and again, and again....... So, here's a 10 year old ditty.

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As posted at CW->

>Is it a good idea to remove fan leaves that block light to the lower branches or will this take energy away from the flowering?
>

Uncle Ben:
Rottytown and Joey gave a solid explanation that is botanically based. Leaves are the lifeblood of the plant... with a caveat - they have to be functional and productive. If those leaves are healthy and green and receiving good decent light, "leave" 'em alone. If they are yellow or prone to fungus attack, they can be safely removed without detriment to the plant's health as they are contributing little if any value regarding food production - and this is The Key. If they are quite low on the plant and not receiving much light, then mother nature has a way of first taking the goodies from the leaf and it's petiole (removing stored food reserves/metabolites) and dropping the leaves anyway - moot point, eh?

>Even though I've tied the branches down horizontally, many branches are now shaded by large fan leaves.
>

Don't worry about shading branches, worry about shading leaves. Lower branches will always be shaded if your main light source is overhead. Add side lighting or use highly efficient side reflecting panels to alleviate this situation to a degree.

BTW, notice how large fan leaves are? Ever wondered why? It's because they are the most efficient food producing unit for the plant. It's your call (while understanding their function) regarding what to do with them at any given point in time.

>The lights have been on 12/12 for about 3 weeks and the plants are flowering if this helps.
>

I grow the most amount of foliage going into 12/12 as possible. While folks are doing the 15-30-15 thingie, I'm providing plenty of N to support foliage production. In general, lot's of foliage=lot's of flowers. Once sexed and the stretch is over, then you need to back off the N and increase the P and K with a blend like Peter's Blossom Booster, an excellent blend from an old pro who I hit on once in a while. Call Jack up, he's a great resource - http://www.jrpeters.com/moreblooms.html

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IOW, why would you remove the very unit that produces the plant's flowers smoothburn? Because someone parroted what someone else parroted that was parroted 10 years ago...... none of them understanding that botany is more important than following bad advise perpetuated by The Herd?

UB

dont remove them ... they will fall off without your 'push'

Twistedfunk said:

they will show deficiencies and die off even if you fert up to the end like i do.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. More than likely you're screwing up your plants with blossom foods or stressing them out some how.

If you look at my plants (check out the avatar, the rock hard 6" wide cola and lower leaves) my plants retain most of their leaves up to harvest, by design.

The fan leaves feed your plants. NEVER take them off. Let them die off on there own. Once dead then remove them if they have not fallen. When you remove a large fan leaf to give light to a smaller bud below you are lowering your yeild not raising it. The large leaves are what feeds your buds. Without them your buds will suffer and fight for life rather than bulking up in size. The large fan leaves often look like crap close to harvest. That is because it is sucking all the last goodies out to give to your buds.

Keep the fan leaves on even if it is shading your smaller nugs. You will see a increase in yield next go around!

DO NOT CUT THEM.
IF you think they are blocking some lights, then get some paperclips and hold them back, if you insist on doing anything, but DO NOT CUT THE FAN LEAVES OFF.

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, When a large FAN leaf starts yellowing, say it is half yellow, that means in the photosynthesis process, that leaf has ate nutes, sucked in some LIGHT and made food for the plant and buds and NOW, half of that is gone, or used or consumed. Well, what about the other half? Can it not it's energy still be used or consumed?
AND when it is ALL consumed or used, that leaf will naturally just fall off.

AND you say it is blocking LIGHT?
GREAT and GOOD, that means it is getting the LIGHT it needs and deserves more than the other leaves do, to do it's job.


Years ago I tried removing lower fan leaves to allow more Light to penetrate in. When i did, the plant went into shock for a day or two, and quit eating or only ate half as much, and just went on "stand by" mode. Then, after a day or two, suddenly, I saw that big fan leaf replaced by a new leaf, and I saw my plant use the energy to replace that leaf, more than it used it to grow bigger and make more buds or bigger buds.

I now believe that removing fan leaves is pointless, and that a leaf has a purpose and will serve that purpose until it is dead. Then it will fall off.


Don't ever remove fan leaves before harvest for several reasons.

1. The fan leaves MAKE AND STORE energy for the plant. The fan leaves are doing a process called photosynthsis, and it is the most important part or task or job the plant does, to make it grow. They make the FOOD, the sugars and carbs needed to grow.

If you remove a FAN leaf, the plant will stop growing taller until it can replace that removed fan leaf.

Removing a healthy fan leaf is a big waste of time..they are rapided replaced,, unless you are in the last few weeks of flowering.


2. Even if the fan leaves are yellowing in late bloom I do not remove them until they are almost ready to fall off. The yellowing in the fan leaves at late harvest is the plants metabolism at work. She is transferring all stored energy in the fan leaf to bud production. It is the easiest source of energy she has late in life.



From the Growers Bible by Jorge Cervantes:
Leave leaves alone! Removal of healthy leave hacks up a healthy plant. Removing large or shade leaves DOES NOT make plants more productive. This practice DOES NOT supply more light to smaller leaves and growing tips. Plants need all their leaves to produce the maximum amount of chlorophyll and food. Removing leaves slows chlorophyll production, stresses the plant, and stunts its growth. Stress is a growth inhibitor. Remove only dead leaves or leaves that are more than 50 percent damaged.

Nicely said Roseman! Your rep speaks volumes! 10,000 +

dont cut anything until Harvest..bend, snap n' tuck...bend, snap n' tuck.

so that would be a NO to pinching fan leaves.lol

alright sounds good, i will let the plants take their course and if they fall of they fall off. thanks for the input everyone.

Roseman said:

The reasoning is like "I could run faster if I was lighter and weighted less, so I am going to cut my legs off".

Click to expand...

Or........"life makes more sense with my head cut off".

Roseman,UB - Are you suggesting that I leave the "highlighter-yellow" leaves alone. Are they contributing to the overall growth and development of the plant in any way?
I have a basic understanding of Botany and cutting off a healthy-green leaf would be absurd but a "completely" yellow one???

By the way, Im not trying to plays devils advocate- it is a genuine question.

Ido however suppose letting it drop off on its own wouldnt hurt

You missed my previous post:

When a large FAN leaf starts yellowing, say it is half yellow, that means in the photosynthesis process, that leaf has ate nutes, sucked in some LIGHT and made food for the plant and buds and NOW, half of that is gone, or used or consumed. Well, what about the other half? Can it not it's energy still be used or consumed?
2. Even if the fan leaves are yellowing in late bloom I do not remove them until they are almost ready to fall off. The yellowing in the fan leaves at late harvest is the plants metabolism at work. She is transferring all stored energy in the fan leaf to bud production. It is the easiest source of energy she has late in life.

Remove only dead leaves or leaves that are more than 50 percent damaged.

i only remove when looking dead and i can easily pull it off

Can someone please explain to me what all the fuss is about?

just try for yourself and see what works for you, i personly find removing leaves works for me, put your grow manuals down and don't be scared to experiment ... you never know what you might discover, and what grow manual rules will be broken