Fan Leafs. Blockers of Light Or Energy Producers???

Uncle Ben said:

The only thing you've proven is that you're a cyber stalking troll, a nutjob.

You need to read my basics. You might learn something about temperatures and other cultural factors. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/267989-uncle-bens-gardening-tweeks-pointers.html Noticed I made a genotype distinction by using the term 'hybrid', aka mutt?

And for the record, you sat there like some confrontational loon fishing in whatever source you might have, a book, the internet, your boyfriend's chest tattoo.....for some piece that just might contradict what I wrote. As usual, you twisted, took the temp recommendation out of context as the author applied it in general. So, we're both correct (Jorge and me)...... not that it matters - gardening is a matter of using common sense. Point being, sativas are indigenous to hot equatorial regions and I've grown plenty of pure sativas - Dalat Vietnamese, Zamal, Oaxacan Mexican, Original Haze to know that they prefer day temps at 85F or more. I'd say a good day range for an Oaxacan Mexican or Vietnamese sativa is 80F to 95F with a drop in temp at night from 10 - 25F. My O. Haze, a pure sativa hybrid, enjoyed summer day temps of 90 - 105F last year. A pure indica may have stressed out.

Like I said, get some help. You're obsessed.

UB

Click to expand...

Those aren't YOUR basics....They're some of THE basics....
Some things seems like they might be....But nahh

Sincerely420 said:

Science provides proof and an explanation for just about everything in this world...The only thing I can think of in life that doesn't relate to science is religion.
People prove things with science.....You can't prove anything without science man

Everything that we're doing here goes back to science....You might think you're just experimenting....but the results you find are do to the science behind the experiment.
I think Unc is just ON ONE.....And hes sticking to his guns....Oh well...that's him man...

But the proof of EVERYTHING lies in it's science.

Click to expand...

Ya I get that, I'm a believer in science as well, but the point I'm trying to make is that science can't explain everything and is proven wrong all the time, world was flat ect ect.... I do agree science proves and explains a lot when it come to growing cannabis but when a scientific article on corn or cowpeas grown outside is brought up to prove something about my indoor plants is redundant and useless. It doesn't tell me shit as cannabis is a very special plant and doesn't compare to other crops the same. Bring up a scientific article on cannabis grown inside and I will be interested.

keebo3000 said:

so what you are saying, if im reading correctly, is that your experience with sativas goes against something documented? hmm very interesting.

Click to expand...

You are not reading or comprehending "correctly".

Try again, perhaps you'll get it one of these days.

PJ Diaz said:

I don't bother you in your other threads do I? (yet -- don't tempt me)

Click to expand...

Of course not.

PJ Diaz said:

Shit, we really trolled it up this time.

Click to expand...

https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/570037-so-you-noobs-hooked-cannabis-17.html[/quote]

Busted!

That reference took me literally 2 minutes to find, because I already KNEW you were wrong, as you often are. Who grows pure hazes indoors?

Click to expand...

I do. Grow a pair.

Get the fuck outta here dude. 99% of what we grow indoors are mutts. Stop comparing outdoor grown to indoor. Frankly it's just stupid.

Click to expand...

I've grown pure sativas indoors for years and journaled every one of them - Dalat, Zamal, O. Haze.

Don't worry, one of these days a pup like you might run with the big dogs. But......

....I doubt it.

Bendejo Perro Grande

Originally Posted by Bud Brewer
Here are some studies

The predictions of these three models were tested on the tree Brosimum alicastrum and the liana Vitis tiliifolia.
Seedlings were subjected to three levels of experimental defoliation (0%, 50% and 90% leaf removal) along a light resource gradient (1%, 9% and 65% of full sun).
In both species, defoliation significantly increased leaf production rate and relative growth rate of leaf area, but not of biomass.

Uncle Ben said:

Fine, I already stated that a plant will try to replace that which it knows should be there. I found that out when I severly defoliated some Mexican many years ago. So, why bother? There were so many factors stated in your references that they can't transpose to what we're doing. For starts, I know of no one growing a water stressed plant, under drought conditions, like you cited with the cotton crop. For starts, cotton is more like okra. Cannabis is more like tomatoes.

Originally Posted by Bud Brewer
SUMMARY

Different patterns of dry-matter accumulation in various plant parts was observed. Silking was delayed by increasing plant density. Defoliation (even partial)
at the 16th fully expanded leaf stage resulted in substantial reduction in LAI and such yield components as number of ears, ear length, ear diameter and
1000-grain weight.

Uncle Ben said:

Monocot versus a dicot. Silks, ears, oh my!

Click to expand...

You forgot the important second missing part of the last quote http://journals.cambridge.org/action...21859600062043

1000-grain weight. On the other hand, partial defoliation done at the 10th fully expanded leaf stage to simulate an ‘erectophile canopy’ led to yield increases
even under high plant density (90000 plants/ha) in the Kharif (rainy season), mainly through an increase in number of ears, 1000-grain weight and grain to stover
ratio coupled with a reduction in barrenness and percentage of lodging. It is suggested that an increase in the photosynthetic efficiency per unit area of leaf
resulting from the ‘erectophile canopy’ is the reason for these effects.


I'm glad you pointed out the drought study on corn and cotton this could be very helpfull to outdoor growers that can't water there plants in dry conditions it could mean the difference between life or death or a bigger crop if you don't try it you can't know http://journals.cambridge.org/action...14479703001534

Defoliated cotton plants lost less fruiting forms (squares and young bolls) than non-defoliated plants during water stress. Therefore, under water stress the
harvestable product of cotton plants with 67% defoliation was double that of non-defoliated control plants. In non-defoliated cotton plants, a second flush of
flowering after release from water-stress permitted further compensatory fruit set and boll harvest. Defoliated plants did not show such levels of compensation.
Defoliation significantly reduced water use by maize and cotton. The relative yield advantage of defoliated plants under water-stress conditions can be attributed
to defoliation-induced improvement in water status as reflected in measures of photosynthetic rate and stomatal conductance. Under anticipated drought stress,
defoliation could be an important management practice to reduce drought-induced yield decrease, but this needs to be tested under field conditions.

Click to expand...

Love is all you need.

Slab said:

You guys need to read a study on now to get rooms dialed in lol.

Click to expand...

You mean these huge four foot dense repeatedly defoliated bushes

The fist two are from the January 1 week 4 the second two Jan 10 the last two are my shield I made you can see the dense bushes defoliation brings if done early and repeatedly

Uncle Ben said:

And for the record, you sat there like some confrontational loon fishing in whatever source you might have, a book, the internet, your boyfriend's chest tattoo.....for some piece that just might contradict what I wrote. As usual, you twisted, took the temp recommendation out of context as the author applied it in general. So, we're both correct (Jorge and me)...... not that it matters - gardening is a matter of using common sense. Point being, sativas are indigenous to hot equatorial regions and I've grown plenty of pure sativas - Dalat Vietnamese, Zamal, Oaxacan Mexican, Original Haze to know that they prefer day temps at 85F or more. I'd say a good day range for an Oaxacan Mexican or Vietnamese sativa is 80F to 95F with a drop in temp at night from 10 - 25F. My O. Haze, a pure sativa hybrid, enjoyed summer day temps of 90 - 105F last year. A pure indica may have stressed out.

Like I said, get some help. You're obsessed.

UB

Click to expand...

Uncle Ben said:

I've grown pure sativas indoors for years and journaled every one of them - Dalat, Zamal, O. Haze.

Click to expand...

So, you gave him advice on growing a pure sativa when he's growing a 75% indica variety? How is that good advice?

relax please train ur bush lets c every leaf bright in shiny like a perfect world get it figured out how to do it maybe even veg a day less get dialed in and yeah leaves rep bud sites so yeah save veg time cause ur not using ur shit anyway and downsize or grow 1 or few big ass single plants cause even a 600 hundred will only penetrate so deep you fucji n pricks

donmagicjuan said:

relax please train ur bush lets c every leaf bright in shiny like a perfect world get it figured out how to do it maybe even veg a day less get dialed in and yeah leaves rep bud sites so yeah save veg time cause ur not using ur shit anyway and downsize or grow 1 or few big ass single plants cause even a 600 hundred will only penetrate so deep you fucji n pricks

Click to expand...

OK, will do sir. Is 4 plants under a 600 ok with you?

here are my plants week 3 looks bad right? i over did it on purpose to see what would happen. would the plants just die? either way here they are at end of week five....so thats it they seemed to slow down maybe a week and a half behind previous grows

keebo3000 said:

here are my plants week 3View attachment 2497978View attachment 2497979View attachment 2497980 looks bad right? i over did it on purpose to see what would happen. would the plants just die? either way here they are at end of week fiveView attachment 2497982View attachment 2497983View attachment 2497984View attachment 2497985View attachment 2497986View attachment 2497987View attachment 2497988....so thats it they seemed to slow down maybe a week and a half behind previous grows

Click to expand...

I was reading a study about plant defence mechanism regarding to leaf damage and there is a peak of fatty acids for an hour an then it slowly decreases.... After 24 hours pretty much everything goes back to normal and I'm assuming plants regenerates leaves to collect more energy... I wouldn't say is worth all the sugars stored and stuff In leaves plus similar results might be obtained by damaging the main vein replicating a herbivorous attack... And maybe others way to damage the plant... But I don't know seems like in the long run if you grow healthy plants you are fucked by defoliating...

keebo3000 said:

here are my plants week 3View attachment 2497978View attachment 2497979View attachment 2497980 looks bad right? i over did it on purpose to see what would happen. would the plants just die? either way here they are at end of week fiveView attachment 2497982View attachment 2497983View attachment 2497984View attachment 2497985View attachment 2497986View attachment 2497987View attachment 2497988....so thats it they seemed to slow down maybe a week and a half behind previous grows

Click to expand...

Btw what's their flowering time in those pics? Nvm I just saw its their 6th week

elkukupanda said:

I was reading a study about plant defence mechanism regarding to leaf damage and there is a peak of fatty acids for an hour an then it slowly decreases.... After 24 hours pretty much everything goes back to normal and I'm assuming plants regenerates leaves to collect more energy... I wouldn't say is worth all the sugars stored and stuff In leaves plus similar results might be obtained by damaging the main vein replicating a herbivorous attack... And maybe others way to damage the plant... But I don't know seems like in the long run if you grow healthy plants you are fucked by defoliating...

Click to expand...

maybe...so far im pleased with this experiment.

elkukupanda said:

Btw what's their flowering time in those pics? Nvm I just saw its their 6th week

Click to expand...

did you happen to catch the number of budsites and how well the lower ones are doing? if not check it out.. would love your feedback.

elkukupanda said:

I was reading a study about plant defence mechanism regarding to leaf damage and there is a peak of fatty acids for an hour an then it slowly decreases.... After 24 hours pretty much everything goes back to normal and I'm assuming plants regenerates leaves to collect more energy... I wouldn't say is worth all the sugars stored and stuff In leaves plus similar results might be obtained by damaging the main vein replicating a herbivorous attack... And maybe others way to damage the plant... But I don't know seems like in the long run if you grow healthy plants you are fucked by defoliating...

Click to expand...

Could you put up the link to that study it seems interesting your right about the plant regenerating leaves to replace what was taken within a few days from the small side branches making them grow much more this is something most people overlook on this topic it makes many more bud sites.

keebo3000 said:

did you happen to catch the number of budsites and how well the lower ones are doing? if not check it out.. would love your feedback.

Click to expand...

No, seems like you got plenty of bud sites... But you know this thing with cannabis is factor dependant and genetics... Im new to this... so let me know how it ends up... As long you happy I guess that's what matters bro

Bud Brewer said:

Could you put up the link to that study it seems interesting your right about the plant regenerating leaves to replace what was taken within a few days from the small side branches making them grow much more this is something most people overlook on this topic it makes many more bud sites.

Click to expand...

http://www.plantphysiology.org/content/111/3/797.full.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasmonic_acid

keebo3000 said:

here are my plants week 3View attachment 2497978View attachment 2497979View attachment 2497980 looks bad right? i over did it on purpose to see what would happen. would the plants just die? either way here they are at end of week fiveView attachment 2497982View attachment 2497983View attachment 2497984View attachment 2497985View attachment 2497986View attachment 2497987View attachment 2497988....so thats it they seemed to slow down maybe a week and a half behind previous grows

Click to expand...

No wonder you manually defoliate. You're just beating the plant to what is gonna be its final outcome - fan leaf necrosis. I'm not here to put you down, but those leaves do not look healthy. What foods are you using? Uhhhhh, let me guess. You've been using some "cannabis specific" snake oils like Advanced Shysters or Humboldt that is low in N and too damn high in K. Did I guess it right, get the prize?

This is what you should aim for - an abundance of medium to dark green, healthy fan leaves. Plants were a couple of weeks prior to harvest. This plant was crammed into my indoor garden with many others, and, guess what kiddies? Notice the bottom SHADED buds, like 20" down from the top, are FAT and DENSE! It flies right into the face of your practices and supports the botanical fact that a shaded apple is sum mightee fine eatin'!



And just for shits and grins, here's an outdoor sativa that was topped for 4 main colas. Those colas are a foot wide, at least. The one in the foreground about 18" wide due to the weight of the buds. And yes, the 4 colas were staked the best I could do.



As an aside, I've been noting my observations for years - noobs (and some veteran gardeners) often embrace the (dysfunctional) romance they have with the minority of gardeners who defoliate. Why? Because they have not yet learned what makes a plant tick, mastered practices required to retain healthy leaves until harvest, so, they spin their shortcomings, sour grapes style, to protect their egos. Simple Psychology 405....

UB

I run flat screens. They fill up. They make shade. The leafs under it die. I remove them before they do. Any questions?