feeding compost tea in coco coir?

jjf1978

jjf1978

Well-Known Member
captain.koons said:
Yeah, the idea of a compost tea is to activate the beneficial bacteria and fungi and allow them to reproduce rapidly over the course of 1-3 days. This is essentially the same thing that happens in soil but much faster as you're giving the bacteria and fungi an optimal place to live as you typically provide food, heat, and oxygen in the right amounts.
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Oh so you're saying that the bacteria in the coco medium will "wake up" and multiply when the tea is fed. After 1-3 days they start to die off again and the tea must be re-applied? I smoked a good bowl of AMS so forgive me for my confusion lol :P
 
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madodah

Well-Known Member
jjf1978 said:
Oh so you're saying that the bacteria in the coco medium will "wake up" and multiply when the tea is fed. After 1-3 days they start to die off again and the tea must be re-applied? I smoked a good bowl of AMS so forgive me for my confusion lol :P
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No, the intent is to use activated microbes from the tea (brewed 1-3 days) to instantly supplement existing microbe colonies in the growing media. Microbes developed in an AACT tea have ~4 hours of oxygen when the aeration is stopped before they're kaput unless applied to the growing media, which hopefully has water retention and oxygen to sustain them.

I think many people have so many carryover notions, habits or whatever from hydro style growing (and the marketing hype from the nutrient industry) that the function of AACT teas is often confused with nutrient feeding. If your growing media is properly prepared and you use a couple of teas, you should have no requirement for supplemental nutrients.

Here's a great book on microbes and their functions, Teaming with Microbes, written in layman's terms, that should be required reading for any true organic grower.
 
jjf1978

jjf1978

Well-Known Member
madodah said:
No, the intent is to use activated microbes from the tea (brewed 1-3 days) to instantly supplement existing microbe colonies in the growing media. Microbes developed in an AACT tea have ~4 hours of oxygen when the aeration is stopped before they're kaput unless applied to the growing media, which hopefully has water retention and oxygen to sustain them.

I think many people have so many carryover notions, habits or whatever from hydro style growing (and the marketing hype from the nutrient industry) that the function of AACT teas is often confused with nutrient feeding. If your growing media is properly prepared and you use a couple of teas, you should have no requirement for supplemental nutrients.

Here's a great book on microbes and their functions, Teaming with Microbes, written in layman's terms, that should be required reading for any true organic grower.
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That clears things up for me, but opens up a bunch of new questions.

1) What happens in a non-organic soil grow? Store bought potting soil supplimented with salt based nutrients like General Hydroponics? Are there bacteria involved? Or are the plants directly receiving nutrients when watered without the aid of bacteria breaking down larger molecules?
2) Organic soil needs to stay pretty damp then I suppose to keep the microbes thriving yes?
 
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madodah

Well-Known Member
jjf1978 said:
That clears things up for me, but opens up a bunch of new questions.

1) What happens in a non-organic soil grow? Store bought potting soil supplimented with salt based nutrients like General Hydroponics? Are there bacteria involved? Or are the plants directly receiving nutrients when watered without the aid of bacteria breaking down larger molecules?
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There are microbes involved in any plant-soil relationship, organically structured and balanced or chemically fed. The primary difference being chemicals feed a plant's requirements, upset the soil balance while leaving salt and chemical deposits. The result is an unbalanced soil that won't support plant life without ongoing chemical applications that eventually render the soil incapable of producing any microbes.

A majority of marijuana growers use chemical supplements because their only concern is the end result, which translates into means justifying the end regardless of soil damage. Those throw-away growers are the demographic targeted by suppliers such as Fox Farms who offer very expensive soils to be used in conjunction with a very expensive chemical based nutrient feeding schedule. Use it, toss it and replace it. An organic grow media can be used for several seasons, some up to eight years, before replacement and when finally discarded it decomposes and feeds a fresh cycle as a renewable resource. Soil with salt deposits is, for all practical purposes, dead.


2) Organic soil needs to stay pretty damp then I suppose to keep the microbes thriving yes?
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Supplying water and air in acceptable portions to feed the microbe colonies requires water retention, air retention and drainage to achieve a desired balance in any growing media. Over watering and too many nutrient supplements is the number one failure point for most all new growers, especially boutique growers with just a few plants who worship the marketing gods.

If you're serious about organic growing and its benefits I strongly recommend doing some reading and research to understand what's actually happening with your soil and its relationship with your plants. Your growing efforts, organic or chemical, will be handsomely rewarded with even rudimentary knowledge.
 
NLNo5

NLNo5

Active Member
It doesn't have to beeeee toooo complicated. Give the media some tea once or twice and smoke a bowl.
 
jjf1978

jjf1978

Well-Known Member
madodah said:
There are microbes involved in any plant-soil relationship, organically structured and balanced or chemically fed. The primary difference being chemicals feed a plant's requirements, upset the soil balance while leaving salt and chemical deposits. The result is an unbalanced soil that won't support plant life without ongoing chemical applications that eventually render the soil incapable of producing any microbes.

A majority of marijuana growers use chemical supplements because their only concern is the end result, which translates into means justifying the end regardless of soil damage. Those throw-away growers are the demographic targeted by suppliers such as Fox Farms who offer very expensive soils to be used in conjunction with a very expensive chemical based nutrient feeding schedule. Use it, toss it and replace it. An organic grow media can be used for several seasons, some up to eight years, before replacement and when finally discarded it decomposes and feeds a fresh cycle as a renewable resource. Soil with salt deposits is, for all practical purposes, dead.




Supplying water and air in acceptable portions to feed the microbe colonies requires water retention, air retention and drainage to achieve a desired balance in any growing media. Over watering and too many nutrient supplements is the number one failure point for most all new growers, especially boutique growers with just a few plants who worship the marketing gods.

If you're serious about organic growing and its benefits I strongly recommend doing some reading and research to understand what's actually happening with your soil and its relationship with your plants. Your growing efforts, organic or chemical, will be handsomely rewarded with even rudimentary knowledge.
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Thanks for answering my questions. I have had a bunch of problems with the salt based nutrients just as you've described and you learn to over come them but I am ready to move on to real growing. The commercial soil/nutrients was a great beginning though. As you suggested I am doing my research right now to start an organic grow this summer. I found some good soil mixes but I am not sure whether to go with using a tea or putting together a soil mix that will only need water for the entire cycle of the plant...or a combination thereof?
 
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madodah

Well-Known Member
jjf1978 said:
Thanks for answering my questions. I have had a bunch of problems with the salt based nutrients just as you've described and you learn to over come them but I am ready to move on to real growing. The commercial soil/nutrients was a great beginning though. As you suggested I am doing my research right now to start an organic grow this summer. I found some good soil mixes but I am not sure whether to go with using a tea or putting together a soil mix that will only need water for the entire cycle of the plant...or a combination thereof?
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I use a grow media that sustains plant growth throughout its veg and flowering cycles (25% decomposed cow manure). When growing in-ground my only additions were a feeding of Alaska Fish Emulsion during veg (a no-no as I found out, it is not organic and I really didn't need it), a couple of diluted molasses feedings during flowering and I had great harvests. This year I'm using a grow media similar to my in-ground but substituting 25% enhanced potting soil for the in-ground 25% compost and 25% peat moss for the in-ground 25% native screened soil and using Smart Pots. I'll apply AACT teas (one after transplant, another at the middle of veg and a final application during early flowering) to supplement microbe activity based on what I've studied and seen. Otherwise, just water for me unless I see a deficiency.
 
jjf1978

jjf1978

Well-Known Member
madodah said:
I use a grow media that sustains plant growth throughout its veg and flowering cycles (25% decomposed cow manure). When growing in-ground my only additions were a feeding of Alaska Fish Emulsion during veg (a no-no as I found out, it is not organic and I really didn't need it), a couple of diluted molasses feedings during flowering and I had great harvests. This year I'm using a grow media similar to my in-ground but substituting 25% enhanced potting soil for the in-ground 25% compost and 25% peat moss for the in-ground 25% native screened soil and using Smart Pots. I'll apply AACT teas (one after transplant, another at the middle of veg and a final application during early flowering) to supplement microbe activity based on what I've studied and seen. Otherwise, just water for me unless I see a deficiency.
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Last question I promise :)

I'm now wondering how the plant receives the different nutrient needs during the different stages of its life. Do the microbes just make all nutrients available and the plant can take up appropriate nutrients based on need?
 
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madodah

Well-Known Member
jjf1978 said:
Last question I promise :)

I'm now wondering how the plant receives the different nutrient needs during the different stages of its life. Do the microbes just make all nutrients available and the plant can take up appropriate nutrients based on need?
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Try this. You'll like it.
 
jjf1978

jjf1978

Well-Known Member
jjf1978 said:
Last question I promise :)

I'm now wondering how the plant receives the different nutrient needs during the different stages of its life. Do the microbes just make all nutrients available and the plant can take up appropriate nutrients based on need?
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Well, I got the book and after a few pages I found my answer!

"During different times of the growing season, populations of rhizosphere bacteria and fungi wax and wane, depending on the nutrient needs of the plant and the exudates it produces" (Teaming With Microbes p.22)

So the trick is the plant will use its root exudates to attract different species of bacteria/fungi that feed on / release the exact type of nutrient they need for whatever stage of growth they are in. COOL! After reading a few pages in this book I just feel horrible growing my plants with salt based fertilizers. *hangs head in shame*
 
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madodah

Well-Known Member
jjf1978 said:
Well, I got the book and after a few pages I found my answer!

"During different times of the growing season, populations of rhizosphere bacteria and fungi wax and wane, depending on the nutrient needs of the plant and the exudates it produces" (Teaming With Microbes p.22)

So the trick is the plant will use its root exudates to attract different species of bacteria/fungi that feed on / release the exact type of nutrient they need for whatever stage of growth they are in. COOL! After reading a few pages in this book I just feel horrible growing my plants with salt based fertilizers. *hangs head in shame*
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I'm glad you're reading it. It totally changed my viewpoints on growing and I had, with the exception of a couple of ignorant actions, considered myself an organic grower. Once you've finished it, I've read it twice at this point, I'll be interested in your impressions. Everyone else who takes the time to read it considers it priceless. Hopefully you won't become as cynical as I have, to the point where reading forum posts about fanboy loyalty to aggressively marketed and very pricey nutrient additives for soil/soiless grows, organic or not, make you smirk as you order organic ingredients for chump change.

Yep, the plant is always in control. Our job is to make the living soil a place to naturally meet its needs and reap the benefits. And the amazing part is that it's so fucking simple!
 
jjf1978

jjf1978

Well-Known Member
madodah said:
I'm glad you're reading it. It totally changed my viewpoints on growing and I had, with the exception of a couple of ignorant actions, considered myself an organic grower. Once you've finished it, I've read it twice at this point, I'll be interested in your impressions. Everyone else who takes the time to read it considers it priceless. Hopefully you won't become as cynical as I have, to the point where reading forum posts about fanboy loyalty to aggressively marketed and very pricey nutrient additives for soil/soiless grows, organic or not, make you smirk as you order organic ingredients for chump change.

Yep, the plant is always in control. Our job is to make the living soil a place to naturally meet its needs and reap the benefits. And the amazing part is that it's so fucking simple!
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Yeah I am loving this book I can't get enough but I don't want to read it too fast because there is sooo much to absorb. I find myself going "ahhh that is how that works??" and then soon after "shit, I'm doing it all wrong" hahah. Thanks for the book advice though. I had a wise friend once tell me, "the best gifts you can give someone are books and tools!" It's true.
 
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