few questions

you know what, I had a large response all typed ready to post to you, but I am not going to. I sit here, yes on drugs. I came here for relief from my pain, I take lots of meds, fentanol patches, oxy's vikodins, the list goes on.

Point is I stand by my original post. I was very cordial, and took the time out from my day to be helpful to him. You dont agree? thats fine, you could have said so in a humane manner, but you didnt. You could very easily have said "while what v-man has said is true, there is another alternative available to you, but you choose a different route.

I came to this site for a few reasons, one was for friendly advice, and also to make a couple of online friends too, which I have. You are making this site unbearable at times. I am not a "know-it all" no one is, but you like to show yourself as such. That makes one wonder about you.

I believe you are the reason why I grow pot. I am tired of dealing with punks who want to impose there point of view on others.

I am sure you dont see what everyone else see. Sometimes it is hard to step outside and take a look inside. You should try it sometime. Maybe you'll grow up when you do.

This was suppose to be a fun place to come and share a common bond, and help newcomers accomplish what we have accomplished.

Thank you.

videoman40 said:

Point is I stand by my original post.

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So do I, and I wont stand by and watch people hand out bad advice, it's really as simple as that.

and you do it so gracefully too, thank you for that.

ok so the basics of it all are that in order to do a succesful grow you need to give the plants adequate lumens/lux/footcandles however the fuck you wanna measure it, then you need to have it at the appropriate colour temperature. 2700k is great for flowering, 6400k is great for veg.

light requirements for plants (taken from jorge cervantes book)

seedling 375 foot candles 4000 lux 16-24 hrs of light
clone 375 foot candles 4000 lux 16-24 hrs of light
veg 2500 27000 18
flowering 10,000 107500 12



foot candles according to the same book = lumens
I would kinda take this as being like when you look on the packaging for some computer software and it gives minimum requirements.


so if you need at least 10,000 lumens to flower a plant, your going to need a good size cfl or enviro or whatever form of light.

so in short yes you can flower with fluros or cfls and quite probably get half decent results if they provide enough lumens, but if you want that centrefold bud and grown to its full potential then i still 100% believe that hps is the way to go if you can, make it work for your situation if you cant afford to get the hps, get the cfls but the quality and quantity will be affected

I can knock low watt cfls as i have tried them and personally i think they are a waste of money,

I can't knock a larger cfl as i have just bought one to try out just got 2x 250w 6400k

"Who's telling him to go and spend hundreds of hundreds of dollars? Your knowledge of cfl's is clearly restricted to T5 systems, which aren't even cfl's. I never mentioned anything about T5 systems - you did. There's plenty of high wattage cfl systems you can use for plant growth that cost about 50 bucks, which would be an excellent way to get started for newbie growers. Your knowledge of available fluorescent systems is clearly pretty limited, no wonder you automatically advise newbies buy expensive to operate HPS systems."

Obviously at about 50bucks, you are referring to envirolights? And as you stated in a previous post....these basically are T-5's
So either you are lying here, or you lied there, care to elaborate?

videoman40 said:

[Obviously at about 50bucks, you are referring to envirolights? And as you stated in a previous post....these basically are T-5's
So either you are lying here, or you lied there, care to elaborate?

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Oh dear, have we really descended into the realms of pedantry?

Go away and understand the difference between a compact fluorescent fixture such as an Envirolite, Ecolite or nlite, despite being based on T5 technology and the kind of T5 systems you were talking about costing hundreds of bucks, using in linear configurations and purpose built reflectors.

According to your example, as all cars have 4 wheels they're all the same aren't they, despite there being hundreds of different makes and types.

And HPS and MH are also based around the same High intensity discharge technology so they must also be the same and blah and blah and blah.

Go away and try and understand a bit about this subject matter before you start calling me a liar.

holy shit dude, I was taking what I said to you, from some of your posts here, in your post under lights and lumens.
It really dosent matter at this point. You didnt come here to help anyone, the poster has left long ago, your just here to hear yourself argue a point that only you care about, and/or to hear yourself argue.
Why dont you make a recommendation guide, and I'll ask the moderator for permission before anyone can join, we'll make sure they read your point of view first, before they can post, ok?

actually I think I started the whole damn thing. Sorry guys. Video I thought you were saying the T5's you have were costing you more to operate. Since Mogie had said the same thing the other day, and babygor's posts about lighting seemed knowledgable I wanted to know why there was this descrepancy. Aparrently he wasn't talking about the T5's, he was referring to cfl's. You are probably both right, and since I'm not using T5's or cfl's I probably should have just stayed out of the discussion.

videoman40 said:

holy shit dude, I was taking what I said to you, from some of your posts here, in your post under lights and lumens.

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No, what you're now trying to do is extricate yourself from the shithole you dug for yourself, by trying to catch me out and in doing so undermine my credibility.

You talked about T5 systems. I talked about CFL's based around T5 technology. They're different and worlds apart in their performance, spectral outputs and cost.

Now fuck off and stop wasting my time.

Dude, I use a hps myself. I am just tired of listening to baby(gro) talk, he has never started a single thread, never. He has no grow to show, he just likes to lurk here and start trouble.
If he was sincere, he would behave as such, he dosent, there is a proper way to do things and an obnoxous way, he chooses his path on purpose.
He contradicts himself all the time, in an effort to start shit. I could go on and on, but I am going to close my mouth now.
Peace

videoman40 said:

Dude, I use a hps myself. I am just tired of listening to baby(gro) talk, he has never started a single thread, never. He has no grow to show, he just likes to lurk here and start trouble.
If he was sincere, he would behave as such, he dosent, there is a proper way to do things and an obnoxous way, he chooses his path on purpose.
He contradicts himself all the time, in an effort to start shit. I could go on and on, but I am going to close my mouth now.
Peace

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Excuse me? I have my own grow going at the moment, I just don't see why I need to show everyone what I'm doing. People here have seen pictures of the plants I'm currently growing.

What's starting threads got to do with anything? I spend 100% of my time on here answering OTHER peoples questions, I don't need to ask any myself, thus I don't start any threads.

Finally, point out one example anywhere where I've contradicted myself, real examples would be nice and not just fantasy ones that seem to exist only in your own head.

You're going to close your mouth now? Best thing I've seen you write all day.

Allright look asshole....

wasn't it you who told me that unless I have the enhanced blue spectrum bulb for my light, I am doing it wrong?

and wasnt it you who changed your mind after I told you I had the enhanced bulb?
You told me that in your opinion it (now) dosent matter, it still isnt good enough?

come on ppl you dont have to get nervous..

well thanx for answering my questions.. it would be perfect if i could get the light setup on the site videoman gave me. it looks full and not expensive. but i dont have a credit card... so thats why i asked in the first place. if i wont be able to buy my lightning setup from the internet, could i use the 3 150 W mh lights i told you about ? i am a bit confused because they look to small , as i said they are about 5 centimeters.

i would like to place them inbetween the plants, just like this :
from left to right - 1 plant up and one down, then, to the right one bulb, then another 2 plants and right after them, another bulb and so on. wouldnt that be ok ? i think this way the plants will get light from top to bottom and i wont be wasting any of the light.

smokey what do the bulbs say on them?

do they look like the bulbs in your bathroom mirror or lamp in the table (old school incandescent)??

if its an hid (what you want in this example) it should be long like 10-12 inches and either a long tube about 3-4 inches pfat or have a big bubble in the middle.....

you need ballasts too the are like the umm the special power adapter that MUST BE USED WITH THE PROPER BULBS!!!! or its a fire hazard.

best to get a package like vid put up and you can go to walmart or some check cashing places and get a prepaid debit card to use many places accpept this payment.h

when someone asks what light setup they should get, and dont give any idea about budget or grow room or anything like that, the obvious response is always going to be a hps, because most people are of the belief that is better to have the best light to flower with, this is when you want the light be its best.

Now babygro i understand your point that cfl technology has come along way and will get good results during veg stage and could do quite a good job of flowering a small number of plants per light.

However if it was to choose 1 bulb which would you pick, would you pick a 2700k cfl/enviro, a 6400k cfl/enviro a metal halide or a high pressure sodium.

If selected without altered spectrums no one of these bulbs will provide an all round great grow so we look at getting the altered spectrum bulbs.

get a "dual spectrum" cfl/enviro
can a "dual spectrum" cfl/enviro only put out light in the red and blue spectrum or are there any wasted lumens.
when you consider the efficiency of lumens per watt vs the hps enhanced how does that measure up.

I have first hand experience that a plant can be grown under an enhanced spectrum hps and to be honest it has provided good results that im more than happy with so if i had to recommend one bulb without someone saying i can only afford to grow for 40 bucks it would be the hps enhanced.

if it was to someone with 40 bucks it would be a second hand hps enhanced from ebay or dont bother growing get yourself some smoke from a dealer you'll get more out of it.

if you got the money though best way to go in my opinion is to get a metal halide or a 6400k envirolite and a high pressure sodium and get great grows

So if one bulb was the answer which one is the right one?

A suggestion Smokey. Do a search on Barrel of Green. If I were starting, and I wanted something that seems to be small and proven I would make one of these. Its made of two 2' round pots and uses a 250 watt hid bulb.

Hey Smokey, i guess now simply that you are from the states, i had a look on ebay 5min ago for complet HPS set up with 400W of power. i did so since the guy take money orders too.
eBay: 400 watt HPS GROW LIGHT w BALLAST LAMP HOOD 400w Plant! (item 180083918697 end time Mar-02-07 20:00:00 PST)
that about the same sys i flower with, also 400W and bat-wing reflector. for growing i use almost until the end some cfl's, the small bulb type ones with 21W, pay like 10 buck for those each. 4-5 of those make a lot of light on 3x4 foot, hps will do more but i have to watch the bill...

full hps grow works for sure too, so there are no extra lamps needed if you have a good hps.

i should searched a bit long on ebay, there is lots of stuff listed under "HPS", "hps sodium", even under "sodium" are still a few things listed...


if want to try ebay, you my start with "HPS" for the search, gave me the most hits and almost all on target

okay i gotta question . . babygrow i have one 3 and a half week plant under one cfl .. . and i want to use cfl all the way . . and soon i will need to buy a light that will work for flowering too .. . . so what type of light should i get that will be cheap and effiecent for my grow . . and where can i buy . . ?

Mr. Green Thumb said:

okay i gotta question . . babygrow i have one 3 and a half week plant under one cfl .. . and i want to use cfl all the way . . and soon i will need to buy a light that will work for flowering too .. . . so what type of light should i get that will be cheap and effiecent for my grow . . and where can i buy . . ?

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I'd get 2 x 125w nlites, 1 x 125w Red 2700k and 1 x 25000k Purple, from here -

nlites USA | Products | Compact Fluorescent Lamps

Those will put out about 70-80% of the right spectrum light for flowering, despite only putting out 8300 lumens each, for a total of 16,600 lumens, 70-80% of those lumens are in the PAR spectrum plants use. 250 watts of nlites will consume 194w of electricity. You can also use the purple one for clones, seedlings and vegetative growth. Also bear in mind that cfl's can be used inches from the plant tops thus increasing that 16,600 lumens.

Compare that to the alternative 250HPS most people would recommend. A 250HPS outputs 33,000 lumens at 1 foot, at 2 feet (the recomended distance due to heat output) would be 33,000/2x2=8250, even at 18 inches which a lot of people would use it at, it would be 33,000/3=11,000 lumens.

Now, on average a 400HPS system will only output about 128w of it's output in the PAR range plants use, so applied to the 250w HPS 32% of 11,000 lumens is only 3520 at 1.5 foot and only 2640 lumens at 2 feet. Compare that to the 16,600 x 70/80% = 11,620-13,280 PAR lumens of the 2 x 125w nlites.

If that's not enough, consider this. The 2 x 125w nlites consume 194w of electricity. The 250w HPS would consume 2.6amps on a 120v system = 2.6 x 120 = 312 watts.

So not only would the 2 x 125w nlites output more plant useable light than the 250w HPS, it would cost only about 2/3rds the electricity to run.