First dwc grow and having issues?

im4satori said:

that looks pretty good for bloom, its a very light mix not hot at all, im guessing maybe EC 1.0

as an option; you could easily bump the awesome up to 2mls in later bloom to get the P and K up
then just dilute the mix to your target EC

your heavy on the Epsom salt and could easily drop it down to a light 1/4 tsp

sugar daddy isn't something I would bother with unless your also running beneficial bacterias and molasses would be a less expensive option to the sugar daddy but theres nothing wrong with the way your mixing as in its balanced and its a safe low

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Thank you! That helps with the confidence I'm on the right track. I'll up the awesome a bit, and simmer down on the epsom, and yes I am running bennies (great white in transplant, hydroguard and orca rotation in rez).

I have a couple girls going into week 3, so I'll know in two weeks how this recipe is working. Target ec 1.6-1.8. Last run (ones showing def) was super low, only about .8ec around week 3. I overfed the previous run before that and it was a disaster, so I wanted to error on underfeeding so I wouldnt murder them again. lol

I'll report back in a couple weeks. Thanks again!

visajoe1 said:

Thank you! That helps with the confidence I'm on the right track. I'll up the awesome a bit, and simmer down on the epsom, and yes I am running bennies (great white in transplant, hydroguard and orca rotation in rez).

I have a couple girls going into week 3, so I'll know in two weeks how this recipe is working. Target ec 1.6-1.8. Last run (ones showing def) was super low, only about .8ec around week 3. I overfed the previous run before that and it was a disaster, so I wanted to error on underfeeding so I wouldnt murder them again. lol

I'll report back in a couple weeks. Thanks again!

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personally I find the sweet spot around EC1.2 for my environment growing hydro...anything over that I would see stretched out plants and reduced yields... anything at or over EC1.5 would burn the plants up in middle flower

for me EC 1.2 never requires flushing and if the nute ratios are balanced never shows def even while running the same mix from start of 12/12 to finish

now that was running dtw in rockwool, the waste water samples EC would come out almost the same as what goes in and the ph would be slightly raise from its starting point...damn near perfect

anything under EC 1.0 I would get mild def symptoms but still good yields and nice bud

so it is definitely better to under feed than over feed

I also feel like the plants that are over fed don't have as much flavor

From what I can tell, by the information provided, the plants seemed to be over-fed and then under-fed. The temps do seem a bit low, between 67-69 deg F is the ideal temp from personal experience in the reservoir. My temps fluctuated a bit more as I didn't use a chiller. The room temp also is a bit low, bigger lights? Heh

Also, when operating a hydroponics setup checking the reservoir twice a day is recommended. Once before or during lights on, again before or after lights off depending on the location of the reservoir (inside or outside the environment). When checking always note the temperature, pH, EC and water level along with air stones and pumps. You will notice trends with each strain that you grow, each unique to their needs.

The simplest way to feed is water level and EC. If the water level drops and the EC goes up from the initial reading to the second reading the concentration is too high. If the water level drops and the EC drops then the concentration is too low. When the water level drops and the EC is the same then you have found the sweet spot, for now. That might change in a week as the plant grows.

Enigma said:

The simplest way to feed is water level and EC. If the water level drops and the EC goes up from the initial reading to the second reading the concentration is too high. If the water level drops and the EC drops then the concentration is too low. When the water level drops and the EC is the same then you have found the sweet spot, for now. That might change in a week as the plant grows.

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EC should be checked after topping up with 0ppm water to get an accurate reading of the EC and how much the plants are eating. Plants will drink a lot more water if the RH is low so you need to take that into account and use a lower EC to prevent burning. When the water level is low and the EC is the same as when it started filled up then the feeding is in balance with water intake. If the EC is higher then more water is being used than nutes and the EC should be lowered to prevent excess nute uptake.

If tap water is being used then all bets are off as you'll never know how much of that EC is junk from your water or nutes your plants can actually use.

I always use RO or distilled water and never change nutes until after the stretch. I just top up with fresh RO THEN check the ppm and add enough nutes to keep it close to my target level. Using pH Perfect nutes I don't ever bother with pH. Over 40 DWC grows and a couple hundred plants in 16 years and never lost a plant to nute problems. For me DWC has been the easiest way to grow with the best results and highest yields. In dirt, not so much.

OldMedUser said:

EC should be checked after topping up with 0ppm water to get an accurate reading of the EC and how much the plants are eating. Plants will drink a lot more water if the RH is low so you need to take that into account and use a lower EC to prevent burning. When the water level is low and the EC is the same as when it started filled up then the feeding is in balance with water intake. If the EC is higher then more water is being used than nutes and the EC should be lowered to prevent excess nute uptake.

If tap water is being used then all bets are off as you'll never know how much of that EC is junk from your water or nutes your plants can actually use.

I always use RO or distilled water and never change nutes until after the stretch. I just top up with fresh RO THEN check the ppm and add enough nutes to keep it close to my target level. Using pH Perfect nutes I don't ever bother with pH. Over 40 DWC grows and a couple hundred plants in 16 years and never lost a plant to nute problems. For me DWC has been the easiest way to grow with the best results and highest yields. In dirt, not so much.

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that's al very true and good advise

except I don't agree with your point of view on using tap water

and I prefer to change my water in the res weekly because each time it takes a pass thru the root zone the elemental content changes... so the older the solution the less reliable the contents

I'm poor and I'm Scottish so I'm frugal/thrifty/cheap as hell. I grow in RubberMaid tubs so that makes a lot of RO water and expensive nutes to flush down the drain every week not to mention the extra work. Did I mention I'm lazy as well? lol

Small plants eat so little that nute balance is of no concern. If you use tap water then the best course of action in my eyes is to keep track of how much top-up water gets used then do a nute change once you have added back as much water as what your rez holds. If your tap water is say 200ppm by the time you have added back that water you'll have 400ppm of mostly useless crap in there along with your nutes just interfering with things.

I once did a side-by-side grow using two tubs with 16 plants in each. One got two changes during the grow and the other got no change at all. They both looked the same for the whole grow and the unchanged one had the better yield with one plant having the largest single cola I called Beer Can Betty. All were Afghani Kush grown from seed so not a strictly controlled experiment but good enough to convince me that weekly changes were a con by the nute makers to make you run out sooner and buy more nutes more often.

I'm poor and I'm Scottish so I'm frugal/thrifty/cheap as hell. I grow in RubberMaid tubs so that makes a lot of RO water and expensive nutes to flush down the drain every week not to mention the extra work. Did I mention I'm lazy as well? lol

Small plants eat so little that nute balance is of no concern. If you use tap water then the best course of action in my eyes is to keep track of how much top-up water gets used then do a nute change once you have added back as much water as what your rez holds. If your tap water is say 200ppm by the time you have added back that water you'll have 400ppm of mostly useless crap in there along with your nutes just interfering with things.

I once did a side-by-side grow using two tubs with 16 plants in each. One got two changes during the grow and the other got no change at all. They both looked the same for the whole grow and the unchanged one had the better yield with one plant having the largest single cola I called Beer Can Betty. All were Afghani Kush grown from seed so not a strictly controlled experiment but good enough to convince me that weekly changes were a con by the nute makers to make you run out sooner and buy more nutes more often.

OldMedUser said:

I'm poor and I'm Scottish so I'm frugal/thrifty/cheap as hell. I grow in RubberMaid tubs so that makes a lot of RO water and expensive nutes to flush down the drain every week not to mention the extra work. Did I mention I'm lazy as well? lol

Small plants eat so little that nute balance is of no concern. If you use tap water then the best course of action in my eyes is to keep track of how much top-up water gets used then do a nute change once you have added back as much water as what your rez holds. If your tap water is say 200ppm by the time you have added back that water you'll have 400ppm of mostly useless crap in there along with your nutes just interfering with things.

I once did a side-by-side grow using two tubs with 16 plants in each. One got two changes during the grow and the other got no change at all. They both looked the same for the whole grow and the unchanged one had the better yield with one plant having the largest single cola I called Beer Can Betty. All were Afghani Kush grown from seed so not a strictly controlled experiment but good enough to convince me that weekly changes were a con by the nute makers to make you run out sooner and buy more nutes more often.

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i respect your observation and don't mean to de value them

i just want to give you my perspective

a reservoir that has never been changed means the nutrient profile in the reservoir is unpredictable since the elemental content changes with each time it comes in contact with the roots....and the smaller the reservoir the quicker the ratio changes...
for example as the roots take up nitrogen and the plant leaves behind sulfur from the solution the elemental ppm in the solution has changed
this might work just fine to grow the plants im not saying it wont, lots of people do it with great results if they can keep away root disease

you cant have it both ways
you cant say in one statement that leaving a reservoir unchanged with a totally unpredictable nutrient ratio is perfectly fine and then say 200ppm of source water is going to throw your mix off

its a contradiction

the reality is 200ppm of source water is good source water and likely has no baring on your plants meaning an RO is not required

but if it makes you happy im happy

I'm just saying what I do, not what others should do.

Hard tap water isn't going to hurt when you change often but it wouldn't work for me. I'd end up with 2000ppm of sludge in my tub at the end of a grow and a bunch of unhappy plants if any survived at all.

'nuff said.

OldMedUser said:

I'm just saying what I do, not what others should do.

Hard tap water isn't going to hurt when you change often but it wouldn't work for me. I'd end up with 2000ppm of sludge in my tub at the end of a grow and a bunch of unhappy plants if any survived at all.

'nuff said. View attachment 3958714

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its true, there certainly are exceptions

if someone had large amounts of sodium for example it could be an issue

so it really does depend on whats actually in the 200ppm contained the source water but in most cases itll be fine

OldMedUser said:

EC should be checked after topping up with 0ppm water to get an accurate reading of the EC and how much the plants are eating. Plants will drink a lot more water if the RH is low so you need to take that into account and use a lower EC to prevent burning. When the water level is low and the EC is the same as when it started filled up then the feeding is in balance with water intake. If the EC is higher then more water is being used than nutes and the EC should be lowered to prevent excess nute uptake.

If tap water is being used then all bets are off as you'll never know how much of that EC is junk from your water or nutes your plants can actually use.

I always use RO or distilled water and never change nutes until after the stretch. I just top up with fresh RO THEN check the ppm and add enough nutes to keep it close to my target level. Using pH Perfect nutes I don't ever bother with pH. Over 40 DWC grows and a couple hundred plants in 16 years and never lost a plant to nute problems. For me DWC has been the easiest way to grow with the best results and highest yields. In dirt, not so much.

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No, if you add water to the reservoir before you take a reading you will be wrong in your calculations. Adding more water will further dilute your concentration giving you an inaccurate reading.

Enigma said:

No, if you add water to the reservoir before you take a reading you will be wrong in your calculations. Adding more water will further dilute your concentration giving you an inaccurate reading.

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When you first start a fresh rez it's full and has a certain amount or ppm of nutrients right?

As the water level goes down the ppm can go up because the plants most often drink more water than they take nutes so the concentration gets stronger. But once the rez is returned to full with 0ppm water and everything is as it was the ppm should be lower than it was when first started. The difference is how much the plants ate since the last top up. Kinda like how you fill your gas tank back up to see how much gas it took to drive since the last fill up when tracking your gas mileage.

Say if you started with 650ppm and ran for 3 days before topping up. You do that and let it circulate for a while to mix in the fresh water evenly then check the ppm. Down to 500 so they ate 50ppm worth each of the 3 days. Add small amounts of your nutes in the proper ratio and check again. 700. Close enough so write that down for next time.

Flip to flower and watch that daily ppm drop increase 2 - 4X then as stretch ends go back to around 50/day.

The above numbers are used as examples and not to be misconstrued as instructions of any kind.

Wrong.

If you dilute the solution before taking a reading your calaculations will be wrong.

This is high school stuff here.

Readings should be taken before adding to the reservoir so you know what to add.

If the water level drops and the EC increases then you have over fed them.

If the water level drops and the EC drops you have under fed them.

If the water level drops and the EC remains constant then you have found the sweet spot, for now. The EC will need to increase with plant development.

Do not spread misinformation, that's how people lose money and entire crops.

Enigma said:

Wrong.

If you dilute the solution before taking a reading your calaculations will be wrong.

This is high school stuff here.

Readings should be taken before adding to the reservoir so you know what to add.

If the water level drops and the EC increases then you have over fed them.

If the water level drops and the EC drops you have under fed them.

If the water level drops and the EC remains constant then you have found the sweet spot, for now. The EC will need to increase with plant development.

Do not spread misinformation, that's how people lose money and entire crops.

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that how I do it
but I didn't want to end up in yet another arguement, ive got to many going at one time lol

I have read it both ways but I don't top off until after I check the EC to see what its done

then top off with either water to dilute (if you've over fed) or nute solution to raise the EC if that's required

adding the water before checking the EC wont tell you much

Enigma said:

Wrong.

If you dilute the solution before taking a reading your calaculations will be wrong.

This is high school stuff here.

Readings should be taken before adding to the reservoir so you know what to add.

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Considering I have a diploma in environmental chemistry after three years of tech school that gives me two years university credit toward a masters or further I think I know the proper procedure how to determine my plants eating rates and maintain my target EC or ppm.

You need to have everything back to where you started to know the actual amount the plants have eaten. Too many things can affect the outcome. RH drops and you have more rapid transpiration from the plants and the water level will be reduced faster with less nutes being drawn up with it. It's when you measure before topping up that your data is skewed.

Go ahead and do it back-asswards if it works for you. Your high school diplomas, if you have them, are obviously superior to mine.

OldMedUser said:

Go ahead and do it back-asswards if it works for you. Your high school diplomas, if you have them, are obviously superior to mine.

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you where doing good until you got to this bit here which makes you sound like a real asshole

nothing wrong with a productive debate but I don't see this as productive

you don't prove a point or win a debate by simply saying im smarter than you cuz I said so

im4satori said:

i respect your observation and don't mean to de value them

i just want to give you my perspective

a reservoir that has never been changed means the nutrient profile in the reservoir is unpredictable since the elemental content changes with each time it comes in contact with the roots....and the smaller the reservoir the quicker the ratio changes...
for example as the roots take up nitrogen and the plant leaves behind sulfur from the solution the elemental ppm in the solution has changed
this might work just fine to grow the plants im not saying it wont, lots of people do it with great results if they can keep away root disease

you cant have it both ways
you cant say in one statement that leaving a reservoir unchanged with a totally unpredictable nutrient ratio is perfectly fine and then say 200ppm of source water is going to throw your mix off

its a contradiction

the reality is 200ppm of source water is good source water and likely has no baring on your plants meaning an RO is not required

but if it makes you happy im happy

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how does your college degree explain your flawed school of thought on this post?

OldMedUser said:

I'm poor and I'm Scottish so I'm frugal/thrifty/cheap as hell. I grow in RubberMaid tubs so that makes a lot of RO water and expensive nutes to flush down the drain every week not to mention the extra work. Did I mention I'm lazy as well? lol

Small plants eat so little that nute balance is of no concern. If you use tap water then the best course of action in my eyes is to keep track of how much top-up water gets used then do a nute change once you have added back as much water as what your rez holds. If your tap water is say 200ppm by the time you have added back that water you'll have 400ppm of mostly useless crap in there along with your nutes just interfering with things.

I once did a side-by-side grow using two tubs with 16 plants in each. One got two changes during the grow and the other got no change at all. They both looked the same for the whole grow and the unchanged one had the better yield with one plant having the largest single cola I called Beer Can Betty. All were Afghani Kush grown from seed so not a strictly controlled experiment but good enough to convince me that weekly changes were a con by the nute makers to make you run out sooner and buy more nutes more often.

View attachment 3958590

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well actually it was this one...the last was my response to this

lets get over your insulting and ridiculous response and discuss/ debate the topic... maybe you are correct and can teach us something or maybe your wrong and youll be surprised

having said that I have read it both ways
perhaps it depends on your intent, there could be some purpose to both

when I check my EC daily my intent is to determine if the solution is balanced
to me what that means is that the amounts of each essential element are close to exactly what the plant requires
(no more/no less)
if the nutrients are balanced and in a perfect or ideal circumstance the EC would not climb or fall and would remain the same as the water level drops
this would indicate a balanced reservoir because the rate at which the water is taken up by the plant matches the plants need for minerals
if the EC was high the mineral content would exceed the plants needs and those mineral left behind in the drain sample and if that drain sample goes back into the recirculating reservoir it changes the content within the reservoir equally an EC rise

if the humidity drops the plants will drink more... so they'll require a lower EC (marginally) because the volume of water uptake from the plant will increase but the over all mineral needs required over a given time span may not increase
this is known as osmosis which is biology to chemistry

I don't see how diluting the water in the reservoir and then testing it tells you if the plant is taking up mineral at the same or close to the same rate as water

if your intent was to determine the amount of mineral removed from 1 gallon volume over a span of time thru chemical analysis I can see why youd top it off with plain water before taking samples

but that's not my intent when taking samples

my intent is to determine if the volume of minerals taken up by the plant are less or exceed the volume of fluid