First fail at dwc

DWCgrower406

Well-Known Member
Hello everyone! New to this site, recently joined since im getting back into growing. About 10 years ago i had a perpetual dwc setup going for about 3 years straight. Yeilds werent great (average maybe 1/2g per watt), but i never once lost a plant or had an issue like this. I was using botanicare organic nutes and nothing else. Never used beneficial bacteria, never paid attention to res temp (was likely up in low 70's). Eventually i quit doing it because it just stressed me out too much being in apartment building with neighbors on 3 sides.
10 years later we are fully legal now in montana and i own a house, so its game on. This time around i decided i would switch to chemical nutes because i felt things would just be cleaner and botanicare always turned roots kinda brownish. I only went organic in the first place because the old caregiver that got me started was into the whole organic thing, but honestly i dont feel it matters much as long as you flush properly which is very easy to do quickly in dwc.
So 3 weeks ago i started my grow. RO water, GH flora series with calmag and hydrogaurd, nothing else. Im growing bruce banner #3 from feminized seed which i started in root riot plugs, later to be moved into hydroton. Everything started good other than a consistently rising ph for a few days which i posted about. Suspected from hydroton. That eventually stabilized and no harm to plants. They got a great start and looked awesome up until a week ago. 5 plants total, one still doing awesome, 2 doing kinda ok and 2 are extremely wilted like a plant in dirt that has either too much water or not enough. I mentioned my nutrients which are sitting around 350ppm, ph very closely monitored and kept at 5.8, res temps stay between 62 and 68, never been higher. Using a 1350gph 80watt air pump on 5 buckets, 2 large stones each so more than enough air. Air temp at 75 during day, 68 at night (18/6), humidity has been a bit of a battle. Started down around 25 for first week, then added a humidifier and i can get it up to low 50s now. I would say my environment for plants as well as roots is pretty dang good. Its possible i pushed a bit too high on ppm too soon, got up to 425 or so. At first i thought thats what was going on with the 2 wilted plants. A bit dark green and leaves clawing a bit, but that claw quickly went to full on wilt. I did back those 2 down to 300ppm but its been 3 days with no change, maybe getting worse. To me it looks like a root issue like pythium cutting off supply to the plant, but the roots look fine, no smell, even new growth over last couple days, although very slow. Growth of the plamts themselves has completely stopped. I really just dont get it. The 2 that look kinda ok could just be recovering from a bit of mild nute burn, but i have no idea whats happening with the wilted ones. First pic is all 5, good plant on right, 2 bad ones in back, 2 ok ones in front. Second pic best plant, third pic worst plant, The pic of roots is the most wilted plant, not a huge amount but they look fine to me. Any ideas?
 

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BobThe420Builder

Well-Known Member
How far below the net pot is your water

What nutes exactly are u using. To long of post to read it all

Any enzyme cleaner like hydroguard and z7
 

myke

Well-Known Member
Some will say not enough air makes them look like over watered in dirt? I cant confirm that though I run rdwc and a small air pump with waterfalls.
 

Failmore

Well-Known Member
I hate putting anything other than the seed in my hydroton. I had a lot of issues with plugs. They will hold a lot of moisture and cause the main stem to rot. If your water is splashing up enough to constantly feed the plug water and keep it wet. It may be rotting the stem.

Lowering the water may solve the issue.
 

Failmore

Well-Known Member
I'm also a big fan of sterile. Makes life easier. Never a worry about root rot. Just my 2 cents on that tho.
 

myke

Well-Known Member
Nice job on the white lid covers,I would also cover the clear air hose.Black Duct tape maybe.
 

DWCgrower406

Well-Known Member
I hate putting anything other than the seed in my hydroton. I had a lot of issues with plugs. They will hold a lot of moisture and cause the main stem to rot. If your water is splashing up enough to constantly feed the plug water and keep it wet. It may be rotting the stem.

Lowering the water may solve the issue.
I agree 100% on the plugs. Ive had nutes about half inch to an inch below pot since roots left the net pot, but for the first 10 days or so i had it up higher and the plug was soggy the whole time. I suspected the same about the rotted stem so last night i carefully supported the plant while dumping most of the hydroton from the wilted plant, then carefully pulled away as much of the plug as i could. I wasnt too worried about hurting the plant because i fully expected to find a mushy rotted stem. In my mind it was more of an autopsy but i was careful just in case. To my surprise, as i pulled away the pieces of the plug i found a nice white firm root foundation and a healthy thick hard stem. I removed maybe 2/3 of the plug, right at the base it was pretty full of roots so couldnt get it all, but it all looked healthy. I buried it with fresh hydroton and put it back, see what happens next few days.

Last couple days ive been scratching my head trying to figure out how i will start the next seeds without a medium. How do you do it? Best i can think of is starting in paper towel until it has decent tap root, lile a half inch, then split open a 2 inch neoprene puck, carefully lay the rooted seed in with a bit of root sticking out the bottom, then throw it in a bubble cloner setup and let it get a nice ball of roots before going into hydroton. I have no idea if it would work. How do you do it?
Ultimately i think the answer is just use clones, but i have none. I can wait until my good plant has enough growth to take cuts, but i would prefer to have 5 pheno's to choose from later. Plan was to take cuts from all 5, bud them out and then keep cuts from best pheno as mother.
 

BobThe420Builder

Well-Known Member
Water should be 2" below the net pot or you can drown them, especially if in a plug in the hydrotron

Drop the water down


I use exact same nutes in DWC, never an issue
I ramp upto full strength by week 5 in veg
 

DWCgrower406

Well-Known Member
Nice job on the white lid covers,I would also cover the clear air hose.Black Duct tape maybe.
Yep, i actually ordered blue tubing a while ago, still waiting. For lids i cut donuts of white peel and stick vinyl. Kinda funny though, i started with only one and did a temp test. White lid only dropped res temp maybe 0.3 degree from the rest.
 

BobThe420Builder

Well-Known Member
I've also started my seeds in promix or soil and moved them to hydrotron with no issues at all. Get good roots, wash em good...move on
 

DWCgrower406

Well-Known Member
Water should be 2" below the net pot or you can drown them, especially if in a plug in the hydrotron

Drop the water down


I use exact same nutes in DWC, never an issue
I ramp upto full strength by week 5 in veg
I've also started my seeds in promix or soil and moved them to hydrotron with no issues at all. Get good roots, wash em good...move on
So just rinse all the medium off?
 

BobThe420Builder

Well-Known Member
I've done that

Or I use Root Riot Cubes, they work very well and no issues

But get the water level down or u will drown them like the one looks like now
 

Failmore

Well-Known Member
I agree 100% on the plugs. Ive had nutes about half inch to an inch below pot since roots left the net pot, but for the first 10 days or so i had it up higher and the plug was soggy the whole time. I suspected the same about the rotted stem so last night i carefully supported the plant while dumping most of the hydroton from the wilted plant, then carefully pulled away as much of the plug as i could. I wasnt too worried about hurting the plant because i fully expected to find a mushy rotted stem. In my mind it was more of an autopsy but i was careful just in case. To my surprise, as i pulled away the pieces of the plug i found a nice white firm root foundation and a healthy thick hard stem. I removed maybe 2/3 of the plug, right at the base it was pretty full of roots so couldnt get it all, but it all looked healthy. I buried it with fresh hydroton and put it back, see what happens next few days.

Last couple days ive been scratching my head trying to figure out how i will start the next seeds without a medium. How do you do it? Best i can think of is starting in paper towel until it has decent tap root, lile a half inch, then split open a 2 inch neoprene puck, carefully lay the rooted seed in with a bit of root sticking out the bottom, then throw it in a bubble cloner setup and let it get a nice ball of roots before going into hydroton. I have no idea if it would work. How do you do it?
Ultimately i think the answer is just use clones, but i have none. I can wait until my good plant has enough growth to take cuts, but i would prefer to have 5 pheno's to choose from later. Plan was to take cuts from all 5, bud them out and then keep cuts from best pheno as mother.
I wish I could grow from clone. I do the paper towel. Let them get a good 1" or more root. Then just put then on the rocks. I just push a couple out of the way and make a small pit. Cover the root. But don't crush it.
20210111_165232 - Copy.jpg
 

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myke

Well-Known Member
I use to run rockwool cubes for clones and seeds. Top feed would hit the rockwool 24/7. Never had an over water. Level always 1” or closer to net pot.
maybe as you said. Got the ppm a little high. Or.Light or fan blowing on. Or cold air hitting it.
 

myke

Well-Known Member
Also I would look into some bulkheads ,hose and link them all together. That’s crazy amount of work maintaining 5 different pails,EC ppm. Put a res outside the room. You’ll thank me later.442AC16C-F0EB-4E39-BA40-40D7E62E1248.jpeg
 

DWCgrower406

Well-Known Member
Also I would look into some bulkheads ,hose and link them all together. That’s crazy amount of work maintaining 5 different pails,EC ppm. Put a res outside the room. You’ll thank me later.View attachment 4866674
Thats my plan. Once they get bigger they are going into 15 gallon totes all linked with control bucket. Checking ph, ppm, filling, draining will all happen from the control bucket. My totes have a hole cut in lid the size of bucket, i have buckets that i cut the top 2 inches off of to fit tightly in the large hole in lid. That way the net pot lids will transfer right over when its time. Started with the 3 gallon buckets to avoid huge batches of nutes while they are small. I realise i can temporarily take up space in large res with jugs of water, but i felt it was easier to just start in small buckets.
 

DWCgrower406

Well-Known Member
I've done that

Or I use Root Riot Cubes, they work very well and no issues

But get the water level down or u will drown them like the one looks like now
Yeah, the root riot cubes were super convenient, obviously i just got them too wet. So when you use the root riots, do you get a lot of roots coming out of them before moving to hydroton? When you do move them to hydroton, are you starting out right away with nutes 2 inches below pot? Or do you start higher? Reason i started up higher was because i didnt think bubbles popping would be enough moisture to wick all the way up a couple inches of hydroton to reach roots.
 

myke

Well-Known Member
Yeah bubbles popping is enough to soak a layer of pebbles say 1”-2” thick then plug goes on that.
 
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