First Grow + Powdery Mildew!

orangegoblin

Active Member
Hey guys


So, this is my first attempt at an indoor garden...


about a month ago I brought in a couple outside clones (from a friend) which were infected with powdery mildew.


my grow room was oly half built, so the temps were low, and humidity high...


so, now... I've spotted Powdery Mildew on my mother plant, flowering plants, and veg! i used neem oil to control it, but i read once a plant has PM it will always have it! (im worried, any clones i might take from the mother might be suseptible to PM now)



Fuck.. so anywyas, my question is this:

SHOULD I FLOWER ALL MY PLANTS (Including mother) AND JUST START FRESH/BLEACH THE SHIT OUT OF MY ROOM!?

YES/NO and opinions are appreciated!!!





remember, this is my first grow.. and I got ALL my plants 100% free!



I Plan to experiment with other strains eventually anyways, and migh be able to get another mother



thanks
 

Drr

Well-Known Member
i'd say dont even bother flowering if its bad.. or flower the ones with least amount.. it might be a waste of time in the end.. but then again it will give you time to finish the op for the fresh stuff to run through..

how easy is it for you to get some good genetics?? clones or seeds?? if its not too hard.. scrap it and start fresh.. especially if those were free..
 

trichomeKid

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't give up too easily if i was you, especially that it's your first grow. Is it a strain worth keeping?? Are the plants showing stress from the mildew?
Also if you can get your temps and humidity waaay down you could possibly turn it around. How great would it be overcoming this problem on your first grow though? Will give you loads of experience.
Post some pics for others to give advice!! If it's really bad toss them all, clean up and start afresh :)
TKid
 

orangegoblin

Active Member
hey

so. I noticed the PM about 3 weeks ago...

I've been spraying with neem oil, then sometimes washing it off a bit by spraying high alakine water

I've been keepin a close eye on my temp and humidity also

I put a couple small heaters in my room
- raised the temp to about 24-27c , from 19-21ish
-humidity is 40-55% from 60-75%
-lights-off temp to 22+ from 18-19


at this point, i've nearly overcome the PM in my flower room, but found a small amount of PM in my veg as of today...


what worries me is that it's just creepin' around my room... call it paranoia, but I want it OUT for good :|


and getting new clones is easy for me, got a lucky source



a big thing for me, is I wasn't ready to receive my plants... my grow room was only half built when I moved them in there so it has been a bit of a rocky start.. thats why i was wondering if i should just flower all plants i've got, bleach/clean the shit out of the room, and start fresh in a few months

what you guys think?
 
C

canefan

Guest
Try giving them 1 teaspoon of baking soda to a quart of water non clorinated and two drops of ivory soap to help it stick to the plant leaves. This should be done every couple of days and usually will clear it up if it is not too widespread. Spray it on the leaves generously, and I hope that you learned never to bring a new kid home until it has been isolated to see what problems you have. Hope this helps Good Luck
 
C

canefan

Guest
One other cure that works and is organic, maybe better than baking soda is a solution of hydrogen peroxide and water spray about one ounce per quart should cure the problem on your girls and you can spray once a week there after until you are sure it is all gone. This can be use as a preventor also. Sorry I didn't think about this is the first post also, you might even try both on seperate plants to see which does best for you. Roses I use the baking soda, never had it on my girls before. The peroxide is good on my veggies so there is my two cents. Good Luck
 

JLStiffy

Well-Known Member
Hey, for a non organic way:
Well first of- (organic way) go get some soy'ra nora. It's works to help solve the symptoms. U could by a sulfur burner- it cures your plants by changing the internal pH of the plant.. I know growers who do production and use these unit's as preventative. I have also used them, but I usually go a chemerical chemical way.. See if you can get your hands on a product called NOVA. Now, they use this stuff a tree orcherds and every other place that grows plants and trees. This stuff is watched very carefully. It is monitored and controlled under Agriculture (something). Now, u should go ask a few local hydro stores but better yet, those people who run nurseries such as plant stores.. Just ask, and u will be surprised. BTW, the PM will not only solve the problem but u wont get it in your room next crop :) Its some crazy shit..
 

hardroc

New Member
I agree with the peroxide, turn up the heat, down with the humidity, spray leaves with room temp distilled water and a low base soap and rinse off, peroxide, kills all kinds of fungus, and don't worry about how much peroxide you use.....just don't go nuts and use straight peroxide, but mix a teaspoon or so to 500ml and spray infected areas, peroxide is actually good for the root systems, cause of the O2 in it
 

Leothwyn

Well-Known Member
I've had great success with Serenade - totally gets' rid of it, and keeps it away. It's organic and inexpensive. I regularly got PM before a friend recommended it to me. Now I do it twice per grow as a maintenance thing, and haven't seen a spec of it since.
 
C

canefan

Guest
I've had great success with Serenade - totally gets' rid of it, and keeps it away. It's organic and inexpensive. I regularly got PM before a friend recommended it to me. Now I do it twice per grow as a maintenance thing, and haven't seen a spec of it since.
I am not fimiliar with that can you tell me whats in it or where to find out the info on it? Just curious and the peroxide will cost about a buck to last the next couple of years and its good if you cut yourself.....would like to find out about the Serenade though.....
 

Leothwyn

Well-Known Member
It's a bacteria that eats mold/mildew then dies off. It does cost more than peroxide for sure. It's like $9 for a spray bottle premixed (1 qt. I think). That's enough for one treatment for me. I was kicking myself after doing that a few times, then noticing that if you buy a bottle of the concentrate it costs $19 and mixes up 32 gallons of the stuff... that one will last me a LONG time.

I've never tried peroxide... definitely a cheap option though. If for some reason it doesn't work, give Serenade a try - it totally gets the job done.
 

orangegoblin

Active Member
nice! I really appreciate the info guys, I'll look into some of these suggestions



But I am still wonderin if I should flower ALL my plants (in veg) and aquire some new ones... I've been keeping the temp, air flow, and humidity alot more stable.
so if i get new seeds/cuttings they hopefully wont get PM

hmmm...
 

Hayduke

Well-Known Member
I've had great success with Serenade - totally gets' rid of it, and keeps it away. It's organic and inexpensive. I regularly got PM before a friend recommended it to me. Now I do it twice per grow as a maintenance thing, and haven't seen a spec of it since.
You must grow outdoors...I got some also, figured to use for veggies and indoors....well it did not touch the PM on the squash and ass smells better.

I believe PM is very good at adapting to treatments, and maybe the local strain is immune to serenade, but it was a complete waste of $$. I also got the concentrate (looks and smells like loose shit)

I use the "Cornell Formula" (organic fungicide developed by...you guessed it) with my own tweek...1 Tablespoon Baking Soda, 1 T. organic hemp seed oil (any veg oil is fine) 1 T Dr. Bronner's Hemp-Peppermint-Castile soap. to 1 gallon of water. I use this up to near harvest.

I am looking for good amounts to use of peroxide...get between straight 3% and a teaspoon per half liter....the former sounds strong and the latter sounds light. I would prefer to not use my mix on a girl getting the ax.

Also in a garden infected with PM, my headband is unfazed...Just another reason I love her. She may get the garden to herself if these prissy bitches don't shape up...and yup got it from an infected clone.

:leaf::peace::leaf:
 

TLONG831

Member
I am not fimiliar with that can you tell me whats in it or where to find out the info on it? Just curious and the peroxide will cost about a buck to last the next couple of years and its good if you cut yourself.....would like to find out about the Serenade though.....
I got some pm on my plants about 35 days into flower.
i always check my plants every week and it seems to just became visible in the last week it wasnt that bad nothing more than dime sized spots on a few leaves of a really foliage dense plant. so i trimmed it up massively and i dont see any more pm. does this mean it's gone? or will it be coming back?
 

Hayduke

Well-Known Member
I got some pm on my plants about 35 days into flower.
i always check my plants every week and it seems to just became visible in the last week it wasnt that bad nothing more than dime sized spots on a few leaves of a really foliage dense plant. so i trimmed it up massively and i dont see any more pm. does this mean it's gone? or will it be coming back?
It will ALWAYS come back. It is ubiquitous in the environment, and it is an opportunistic parasite...when the conditions are right, and if the plant is susceptible...it will come back. It does not like oils...neem, veggie, hemp, fish (serenade)...also does not like high pH.

Some strains are more susceptible than others. One of mine NEVER is touched by it..even if a plant touching it is infested. For strains that are lightly susceptible to PM, I have been just spraying affected areas with 50/50 H2O2 and it seems to knock it down for 2-3 weeks...My K-Train got it so much that I just stopped growing it...maybe only grow strains that are affected during winter when temps stay below 80, as I have not seen it most of the winter but I was letting the garden get a little warmer as new plants to the flower area were not doing the usual stretch and finishing a little on the short side, and a Sour Diesel (new to garden) showed a little PM...I had not seen any since early November (no real winter here).

It is airborne, so it will be back.

:leaf::peace::leaf:
 

hardlife

Member
One other cure that works and is organic, maybe better than baking soda is a solution of hydrogen peroxide and water spray about one ounce per quart should cure the problem on your girls and you can spray once a week there after until you are sure it is all gone. This can be use as a preventor also. Sorry I didn't think about this is the first post also, you might even try both on seperate plants to see which does best for you. Roses I use the baking soda, never had it on my girls before. The peroxide is good on my veggies so there is my two cents. Good Luck
Had bad mold in my grow room (just on Plants),used the Peroxide mix and changed my Ventilation...No more mold.
 

Hayduke

Well-Known Member
I also have good luck with H2O2...for lack of a better dilution, I use it 50/50...originally 3%. The plants do not seem to mind it.

I will have to try it in the veggie garden this year...cuz serenade did not even slow it down on squash!

:leaf::peace::leaf:
 

colonuggs

Well-Known Member
............................Try Greencure www.greencure.net

You�ll know powdery mildew has paid your plants a visit when it looks lot like confectioners� sugar has been sprinkled on the plant leaves. At first it may be hard to spot as it might appear on just a small portion of the leaf appearing as an irregular circle. But it quickly spreads and soon appears on the surrounding vegetation. Soon the entire leaf is covered and at the same time colonies develop on the surrounding vegetation and in other areas of the garden.
So how does it all start? Well, the plant becomes infected when an airborne spore, or conidia, lands on a leaf and germinates. It soon grows a guide tube that attaches tightly to the leaf. Then it pierces the plant cell wall and membrane and inserts a hollow tube that sucks up plant nutrients, weakening the leaf and slowing growth. Within a week the fungus produces tiny mushroom stalks that release millions of spores, ready to infect more leaf surfaces. The fungus also produces a secondary spore, which over-winters outdoors and may also hide in a greenhouse or indoor garden even after the crop has been harvested.
Powdery mildew is most likely to attack the young leaves, up to two or three weeks old.
A dozen or so different fungus fall under the heading of Powdery Mildew, but two different fungus species are the most likely culprits. L. taurica, tends to attack warmer gardens. It prefers a temperature of about 77 �F (25 �C). S. macularis prefers a cooler temperature; however, the more virulent stain found in indoor gardens today has adapted to tolerate more heat. Both strains thrive in moderate humidity and are not injured by water. Their conidia can live in water for short periods and are mobile in it. However, strong water sprays do destroy some conidia.
CULTURAL CONTROL
Heat

Powdery mildew is sensitive to heat. Neither species will grow at 90 �F (32 �C). and will quickly perish when above 100 � F (38 �C).
To get a complete kill maintain the temperature for an hour. This may not be a feasible option in most indoor gardens for several reasons. The first is that it may be difficult to heat the space to such a high temperature. The second is that even a single peak of 100 � F (38 �C) affects the growth of plants. Vegetative plants with flowers or fruits in mid stage growth (weeks 3-7) may stretch a little from the experience. The heat treatment has relatively little effect on first and second week flowers or flowers nearing maturity.
You can minimize heat�s impact on plants in several ways. Heat the garden at the end of the day, as the lights are turned off. Since the plants are not photosynthesizing, they have lower water needs.
If the plants are being grown hydroponically, lower the temperature of the water to 60 degrees. Keeping the roots cool will help the upper plant parts beat the heat. It�s not difficult to do this, even if you don�t have a water chiller. Just add ice to the reservoir or flow through system. Roots of plants growing in soil can also be cooled using thermal ice packs at the base of the stem.
The heat treatment should kill off most of the fungus and its spores. The chances are there will still be some fungal re-growth. These can be eliminated using spot treatments.
Pruning

If one particular plant seems to be infected with a few tiny white spots on a few of its leaves, get a bag large enough to drop the leaves into and then cut them off into the bag. Remove the bag from the room. This prevents spores, the white powder on top of the leaves, from becoming airborne while being removed. Remember to wash your hands and clean the scissors or knife with soap and water, hydrogen peroxide, alcohol or bleach. Spray the plant with one of the sprays listed below after pruning to prevent re-infection and encourage healing.
If, you notice a re-infection a few days later, there is a good chance that this plant is very susceptible to powdery mildew and presents a good location for the infection to start and spread from. The plant should be removed immediately by placing a bag over it and removing it from the space. Then the space should be sprayed with one of the sprays listed below.
ORGANIC and IPM CONTROL


Here are some sprays that you can use to control the powdery mildew in your crop. All of these are safe to use for herb or for edible crops. Sprays are washed away by water, including rain.
Cinnamon Oil and Tea
Cinnamon is an effective destroyer of powdery mildew, with an effectiveness rate of 50-70%. It won�t kill it completely but it will keep it in check somewhat. It also potentiates other suppressive sprays so it is good to use in combination. To make your own, boil water, turn off the heat and add one ounce of ground cinnamon to one and a half pints water. Let the tea cool to room temperature. Add half a pint of 100 proof grain alcohol or rubbing alcohol and let sit. Strain the cinnamon. The spray is ready to use. A faster method is to add 2 teaspoons cinnamon oil to one pint of water and a dash of castile soap. Other herbs are also fungicidal. Clove, rosemary, and wintergreen oils are used in some botanical fungicides. The solution should consist of no more than 2% oil.
Garlic

Garlic is antifungal and anti-bacterial and has several pathways for destroying fungi including its high sulfur content. It can also be added to other anti-fungal sprays. Several garlic sprays are available commercially.
A homemade formula: Soak three ounces of crushed garlic in one ounce of neem or sesame oil and 100 proof or higher drinking alcohol or 70% or higher rubbing alcohol for a day or two. Strain. Then soak the garlic in a cup of water for a day. Strain. Mix the oil/alcohol, soaked water and 1 tablespoon liquid castile soap in a gallon container. Then fill with water and shake. The formula is ready to use.
A simpler brew consists of a teaspoon of garlic oil in a pint of water. To keep the oil and water mixed add a 1/8teaspoon of soap. Use garlic as a vaccination. Spray on new growth before there is a sign of infection.
Garlic is a general purpose insecticide as well as fungicide, so it should be used with caution on outdoor plants. It kills beneficial insects as well as plant pests.
Hydrogen Peroxide
Hydrogen peroxide (hp) is a contact fungicide that leaves no residue. It is an oxidized product of water and has an extra oxygen atom that is slightly negatively charged. When it comes in contact with the fungi the oxygen atoms attach to molecules on the cell walls, oxidizing or �burning� them.
Household hp sold in drug stores has a concentration of 3%. Garden shops sell 10% hp. Zerotol� contains 27% hydrogen peroxide and an unstated amount of peroxyacetic acid. Together they have a more potent chemistry than hp, with an activity of about 40% hp. It is considered hazardous because it can cause skin burn similar to that caused by concentrated acids.
To treat plants with drug store grade 3% hp use 4 1/2 tablespoons and fill to make a pint of solution, or a quart of hp to 3 quarts of water. With horticultural grade 10% hp use about 4 teaspoons per pint, 5 ounces per gallon. With Zerotol� use about 1 teaspoon per pint, 2 1/2 tablespoons per gallon.
Limonene
Limonene is refined from the oil of citrus rinds. It has a pleasant citrus odor and is the active ingredient in many of the new cleaning products. It also has fungicidal qualities. I�ve used pure diluted limonene and it controlled powdery mildew, but did not eradicate it. Perhaps a higher concentration would have been more successful. Start using 0.5-1% limonene in water 1/2-1 teaspoon per pint.
Milk
Milk kills powdery mildew so well that both home and commercial rose growers all over the world have adopted it for their fungicidal sprays. Use one part milk to nine parts water. I�ve only used 1% milk, but other recipes call for either whole or skim milk and use up to 1 part in 5 milk. Some recipes add garlic or cinnamon to the mix. When using more than 30% milk, a benign mold is reported to grow on top of the leaves. Use a milk spray at the first sign of infection then protect the new growth weekly.
Messenger�
Messenger�s active ingredient is a naturally occurring protein called harpin that stimulates the plant�s own natural defense system. It has been proven to promote more vigorous hardier plants that are more resistant to disease and have increased yields. It is used to prevent infection and decrease its virulence
Neem Oil
Neem oil is pressed from the seed of the neem tree (Azadirachta indica), native to Southeast Asia, but now cultivated worldwide. Neem oil has low mammalian toxicity. It degrades rapidly once it is applied so it is safe for the environment including non-target species and beneficial insects.
Neem oil protects plants with its fungicidal properties: it disrupts the organism�s metabolism on contact, forms a barrier between the plant and the invading fungus, and it inhibits spore germination. It has translinear action, that is, it is absorbed by the leaf and moves around using the leaf�s circulatory system � it can also be used as a systemic. When it is applied to the irrigation water it is absorbed by the roots and delivered throughout the plant. Adding a 0.5% solution, about 1 teaspoon per quart, to the irrigation water will protect the plant from infection.
Neem oil is best used before the plant or the garden exhibits a major infection. By using it before powdery mildew appears, it prevents the spores from germinating. It should not be used on buds or flowers.
Oil Spray
Growers have used different oil sprays to prevent and cure fungal infections. Until recently most horticultural oil sprays were made from petroleum distillates. However, most organic growers have switched to using botanical oils. Aside from the safety factor botanicals such as cottonseed, jojoba, neem and sesame oils have fungicidal properties. They can be used in combination with other spray ingredients listed here. The oils are mixed at about 1-2% concentrations. A 1% solution is about a teaspoon per pint or 3 tablespoons per gallon. Add castile soap to help the ingredients mix. Oil sprays should only be used on the leaves, not the buds or flowers. Use weekly on new growth.
pH Up
pH-Up is a generic term for alkaline pH adjustors, used to increase water pH in indoor gardens. They come as either a powder or liquid. Its active ingredient is usually lye (KOH) or potash (K2CO3).
Fungi require an acidic environment to grow and die in alkaline environments. Changing the leaf surface environment from acidic to alkaline clears up the infection. An alkaline solution with a pH of 8 will make the environment inhospitable for the fungus and will stop its growth. This is one of the simplest means of controlling the fungus. It can be used on critically infected plants.
Potassium/Sodium Bicarbonate
Potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) and Sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) are wettable powders that change the pH of the leaf surface toward alkaline. Another reaction takes place; the fungus cell wall actually bursts in the presence of bicarbonate. Potassium is one of the macro-nutrients used by plants and therefore is preferred over sodium, as sodium can build up in the soil. Sodium bicarbonate can be found in your kitchen (baking soda), so some prefer it for ease of obtaining. Both are more effective when used with an oil and spreader such as castile soap. They can be used to cure bad infections and prevents new ones.
Use one teaspoon of bicarbonate powder, a teaspoon of oil and a few drops of castile soap in a pint of water, or 3 tablespoons each potassium bicarbonate and oil and a half teaspoon soap in a gallon of water. Spray on new growth.
Serenade� and Sonata�
Serenade� and Sonata� are composed of different bacteria. They use different pathways to stop mycellial growth. They are considered totally safe to humans and animals since the bacteria attack only fungi. Watch out if you are a mushroom, otherwise you are safe. The two bacteria work well together.
They are easy to use, quite safe and effective.
Sulfur
Sulfur has been used to control powdery mildew for centuries. Sulfur sprays can be used indoors but they are not popular because of residue that remains on the plant. In greenhouses gardeners use sulfur vaporizers that heat elemental sulfur to the point of vaporization. The sulfur condenses on all surfaces including the leaves. A fine deposit of very low pH sulfur granules covers the leaf surfaces. The low pH environment inhibits fungal growth. The heaters use a 60 watt light bulb to heat sulfur which is held in a container above the light. The bulb supplies enough heat to evaporate the sulfur, but not enough for it to ignite. The problem with vaporizers is that they also leave a fine sulfur film on the leaves and flowers.
Active mildew: 7 to 8 hours per night 1 to 2 times a week.
Preventative maintenance: 4 to 5 hours once a week
Vinegar
Apple cider vinegar is toxic to powdery mildew because of its high acidity (low pH). Use it at the rate of 1 tablespoon per quart of water several times a week . Some gardeners recommend alternating using vinegar with potassium bicarbonate and milk.
PREVENTION


  • Isolate all new plants in a separate area where they can�t infect other plants.
  • Filter incoming air to prevent spores from entering the room in the airstream.
  • Install a germicidal UVC light, like the ones used in food handling areas. The light is fatal to all airborne organisms passing through the appliance. This will kill powdery mildew spores that are airborne.
  • Spray the leaves with neem oil weekly. Neem oil presents both a physical barrier and a chemical deterrent.
  • Cinnamon oil and cinnamon tea can also be sprayed as a powdery mildew preventative. If you are using cinnamon oil use 1 part oil to 200 parts water. (1 teaspoon oil in a liter of water.
 

berkerey

Active Member
Eagle 20 ew is the only product in america that systemically kills powdery mildew inside the root ball. all other products only help you manage it so that you can salvage crop. Eagle 20 ew is banned in california for environmental reasons so you will have to order it or take a drive to nevada if you live here. Powdery mildew is SYSTEMIC therefore no spray can knock it out completely it will continue to live in the plant tissue waiting for conditions to get right again to resurface. Products like Serenade, green Cure and SNS 244 as well as baking soda or milk on leaves only makes it tough for spores to spread with continued applications.
 

colonuggs

Well-Known Member
Eagle 20 ew is the only product in america that systemically kills powdery mildew inside the root ball. all other products only help you manage it so that you can salvage crop. Eagle 20 ew is banned in california for environmental reasons so you will have to order it or take a drive to nevada if you live here. Powdery mildew is SYSTEMIC therefore no spray can knock it out completely it will continue to live in the plant tissue waiting for conditions to get right again to resurface. Products like Serenade, green Cure and SNS 244 as well as baking soda or milk on leaves only makes it tough for spores to spread with continued applications.

Powdery Mildew is a airborn spore....spores are not systemic are they


So how does it all start? Well, the plant becomes infected when an airborne spore, or conidia, lands on a leaf and germinates. It soon grows a guide tube that attaches tightly to the leaf. Then it pierces the plant cell wall and membrane and inserts a hollow tube that sucks up plant nutrients, weakening the leaf and slowing growth. Within a week the fungus produces tiny mushroom stalks that release millions of spores, ready to infect more leaf surfaces. The fungus also produces a secondary spore, which over-winters outdoors and may also hide in a greenhouse or indoor garden even after the crop has been harvested.
1 spore is all it takes for a outbreak of PM.....filtering your air intake is a nessary step to prevention

For a total eradication of the spore..a 100% cleaning of your grow area is nessary (1/4 cup bleach to 1 gallon of water) floors walls ceiling equipment

also a 100% total coverage of your plant with a fungicide is nessary at the same time you clean your Grow room

I used neem oil with greencure mixed together...applied once a week for 2-3 weeks to make sure all spores on the plant have been killed
 
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