First time LED DIYER gathering thoughts on all white panel(s)

HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
Hello and welcome, I am an inexperienced grower and LED DIYER. I post now in the hopes of invoking interest, ideas, feedback, criticism and fun. I am in the process of designing 3 small-scale and all-white LED panels. Each panel will be a different color temperature (~3000k, ~5500k, ~8000-10000k) and I hope to conduct different grows with the lights, experimenting with what light does what (solo panel grows), different combinations etc. I would like the panels each to consist of 20-30 diodes each, so as to not break the bank.

I consider the whole scheme to be in its infancy stage and am open to any and all suggestions, ideas, and comments. I do have questions/thoughts of my own:

  • I suspect a broader spectrum of light to supply a plant with what it needs better than a light source consisting mainly of 2 or maybe 3 bands of light.
  • Used altogether, the panels should create an "ideal" spectrum
  • ~5500k panel - Daylight/Vegetation
  • ~3000k panel - Flowering
  • ~8000-10000k panel - Overall boost/???
    • Are my choices in spectrum inaccurately represented?
    • Do I achieve UV/IR? Is that essential?
    • What are the consequences of spectral imbalance?
  • Still looking for good quality/price LEDs!!! (Also other items i.e heat sink, driver, (?)mcpcb stars)
  • More to come...


Here's a link to my last and unfinished grow with an experimental LED.
 
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SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
I posted a similar thread yesterday mate, and have had no replies. As far as good place for prices - try www.dx.com (prices in dollars but free shipping to the UK, at least). This is where i intend to get mine (red, blue, and 6500k most likely- supplemented with a couple small CFL). I am also a massive noob, so i'm afraid i cant help much with your other questions.

Good luck
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. I find Chinese suppliers to be almost literally dirt cheap. at .50 cents per 3w Bridgelux (so they say) white(3000k/5500k/10000k) LED (with or without pcb star thing) in a quantity of 30. At that price, I can warrant my experimentation without my conscience chiming in. Although I have no experience under my belt, I wouldn't call myself a massive noob. Not only have I been around buds my whole life, I've smoked it for half of that. I do a lot of reading here on the forums also, making up the vast majority of knowledge I have concerning our favorite plant. You'd really be surprised at how much you can learn reading away and bouncing opinions off educated minds...
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
HiloReign said:
Thanks for the link. I find Chinese suppliers to be almost literally dirt cheap. at .50 cents per 3w Bridgelux (so they say) white(3000k/5500k/10000k) LED (with or without pcb star thing) in a quantity of 30. At that price, I can warrant my experimentation without my conscience chiming in. Although I have no experience under my belt, I wouldn't call myself a massive noob. Not only have I been around buds my whole life, I've smoked it for half of that. I do a lot of reading here on the forums also, making up the vast majority of knowledge I have concerning our favorite plant. You'd really be surprised at how much you can learn reading away and bouncing opinions off educated minds...
Click to expand...
There's plenty of variations in that asian led market.... The majority of sellers / manufacturers usually they go for the " easy money " option... So,there's a lot of ...fraud ...going on ,there... Nevertheless,they are also some serious businessmen ,also.... You pay-they make what you want & how exactly you want it ..(Some of them ,even do that for rel. small orders i.e. for 1000 pcs of leds =>approx. $ 400-500.....) Anyway...It's not so simple as order & pay ,with them... You got to get to know with whom you 're dealin' with... And let them know also ,that you are bad(worldwide spread....) news ,in case they 'll try ,to pull a stunt... ... But ,it's a myth ,that they can not manufacture quality products.... Afterall,almost all thequality " branded "ones are made,also, at asian factories... .... One has to build a good relation ,with a serious asian manufacturer ..Doesn't matter if the facilities are small or the staff is of a few persons.... .. But ..(to continue babblin' ...) .. For experimentin' with leds.... Ok ....Then ,all you have to expect is the average asian quality....(which ,eventually,gets better...Slowly but steady...) ... My advise about leds : "Bigger" is not such a good idea with leds ... You do not need powerful leds ( 2-3-5-10 or more of Watts... ).... With leds ,better start thinking by using "more"(instead of ' bigger'..).. 400 pieces of 1 Watt leds (@350mA ) is way more efficient light from a 400W of HPS...... Hps outputs approx . 120 Watt of light ,so the leds ( cheapos with averag. effic. 0.3 ).... But plenty big differences there....Power Distribution / distance /direction & Better spectral distribution (quality of light ) ..... To begin with...Lower temperaures ,thus higher photosynthetic activity(yield / rates ) ,no heat radiated to canopy/plants ,and plenty more...... More .... Not bigger.... You wanna go large ? More-more-more numbers .... Spread them ,as much as possible ,close to canopy/plants.... There you go.....
 
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SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
Dropped back in to keep you informed of my own progress... I've decided to pick up the bulk of my LEDs from mouser.com and everything else from dx. This is because i've read a few peoples' concerns that wavelengths listed are not accurate. Additionally DX do not carry any 3 or 5w's in the wavelengths I want, so i would have been forced to use 1w. I guess this wont be such a problem with White bulbs.

Look at this cheap fucker http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/LedEngin/LZ1-00R200/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83y1kHJl487QqniFZTWsVHzrw= I think these will make up the bulk of my panel now, though i'd prefer a wider viewing angle. What size modules do you intend to use?
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
stardustsailor said:
There's plenty of variations in that asian led market.... The majority of sellers / manufacturers usually they go for the " easy money " option... So,there's a lot of ...fraud ...going on ,there... Nevertheless,they are also some serious businessmen ,also.... You pay-they make what you want & how exactly you want it ..(Some of them ,even do that for rel. small orders i.e. for 1000 pcs of leds =>approx. $ 400-500.....) Anyway...It's not so simple as order & pay ,with them... You got to get to know with whom you 're dealin' with... And let them know also ,that you are bad(worldwide spread....) news ,in case they 'll try ,to pull a stunt... ... But ,it's a myth ,that they can not manufacture quality products.... Afterall,almost all thequality " branded "ones are made,also, at asian factories... .... One has to build a good relation ,with a serious asian manufacturer ..Doesn't matter if the facilities are small or the staff is of a few persons.... .. But ..(to continue babblin' ...) .. For experimentin' with leds.... Ok ....Then ,all you have to expect is the average asian quality....(which ,eventually,gets better...Slowly but steady...) ... My advise about leds : "Bigger" is not such a good idea with leds ... You do not need powerful leds ( 2-3-5-10 or more of Watts... ).... With leds ,better start thinking by using "more"(instead of ' bigger'..).. 400 pieces of 1 Watt leds (@350mA ) is way more efficient light from a 400W of HPS...... Hps outputs approx . 120 Watt of light ,so the leds ( cheapos with averag. effic. 0.3 ).... But plenty big differences there....Power Distribution / distance /direction & Better spectral distribution (quality of light ) ..... To begin with...Lower temperaures ,thus higher photosynthetic activity(yield / rates ) ,no heat radiated to canopy/plants ,and plenty more...... More .... Not bigger.... You wanna go large ? More-more-more numbers .... Spread them ,as much as possible ,close to canopy/plants.... There you go.....
Click to expand...

Thank you for stopping by, friend, I have been keeping an eye on your Astir project and have learned A LOT from your thread. I may even be interested in an Astir panel of my own :P

I completely understand quantity over quality. I wanted to veer away from what is "known" science and what is yet undetermined. Although I may not have the tools expendable to me(yet), I want to help improve upon what is already known about LEDs. My previous China-made LED gave me surprising results (3w LEDs driven at 600mA with 3.58v), I have a link to that unfinished grow somewhere and I also have a test report on the light from the company I ordered from. I've had GREAT experiences ordering from China, no hassles whatsoever and she (Iris, the employee) was very professional. I definitely plan on running that light again, it's just a matter of time.

Although I was undecided at first, I am going to go with 1w LEDs for this experiment.

A blunder it may be, I believe that other than flowering/vegetating light, there is a light that can fill all the gaps that WW/CW doesn't and I am not sure where to begin. My previous 10000k diodes (among others) seemed to employ a vegetative boost of sorts, for what purpose I am unsure (No, I can't narrow it down to those diodes). Also, the average cct of my old light was 12690k (as reported by Iris' data sheet) and during the flowering stage it was not as explosive as vegatation, but it was mostly due to poor caretaking/neglect. I suspect that in the later stages of flowering, supplemental reds would need to be used for an optimum harvest. Anyway, I fear that too much of this "utility" color can cause bad reactions in the plants and thus, I am obliged to explore and tinker...
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
SnotBoogie said:
Dropped back in to keep you informed of my own progress... I've decided to pick up the bulk of my LEDs from mouser.com and everything else from dx. This is because i've read a few peoples' concerns that wavelengths listed are not accurate. Additionally DX do not carry any 3 or 5w's in the wavelengths I want, so i would have been forced to use 1w. I guess this wont be such a problem with White bulbs.

Look at this cheap fucker http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/LedEngin/LZ1-00R200/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83y1kHJl487QqniFZTWsVHzrw%3d I think these will make up the bulk of my panel now, though i'd prefer a wider viewing angle. What size modules do you intend to use?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "What size modules...", if you're talking about actual size, I haven't taken that into account quite yet.

I also do believe I will be picking up LEDs from a China based company, I've yet to choose whom though.
 
S

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
HiloReign said:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "What size modules...", if you're talking about actual size, I haven't taken that into account quite yet.

I also do believe I will be picking up LEDs from a China based company, I've yet to choose whom though.
Click to expand...
Oh. by "size" i was referring to the specified wattage of each module (ie 1w, 3w, 5w). You've already answered this though.
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link!

I've decided on a 24x 1w all-white panel consisting of 14x WW(~3000k), 8x daylight (~6000k), 2x CW (~10000k) LEDs. I feel this scale of LED would be best for what I'm trying to accomplish. After testing it, I'd like to make more.

I'm picking up cheapo LEDs from China with pcb stars already attached from satisled.com.
My heatsink - Heatsinkusa.com
CC Driver - ??
Power Supply - ??
All other materials will be picked up at a local store or something of the sort.

I don't think I completely understand the driver/power supply solution. The socket in my wall puts out AC from what I understand and that needs to be converted to DC so that it can be used. I also understand I want to drive my LEDs at the correct current. Though, I quite obviously get lost in the number jargon, concerning volts, amps etc. and really would like to educate myself. Throw a dog a bone...
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
You need a Constant Current Driver (Power Unit ) ( aka CC ) ... In contrary with common plug power units ,which are Constant Voltage ( i.e110 V AC ====> 12 V . DC ).......... An ordinary plug-power unit (pc psus also ,mobile phone rechargers,ect ) has constant and 'stable' output voltage... The appliance connected , just draws(from the power unit ) the current it needs to work..I.e 500mA ... (so this appliance will be of 0.5A x 12 Volt= 6 Watts at plug ).... Leds as diodes do not work that way.... They need the opposite ...Constant Current Power units .. A PU that constantly regulates it's output voltage ,so when connected with an appliance (led panel ) ,it will provide constantly I.e 350mA .... Now...Each led has a Voltage Drop ( Forward voltage aka Vf ) ......Say for the whites this is 3.5 Volt max.... If,now you connect 10 of those leds in series ,they will drop the voltage ,of a power unit ,35 volts (approx.) ..... Either you will use a common 12 V plug power unit of wattage according to your leds (i.e . 24 x 1 Watt = 24 Watt say 25...),along with a buck-driver or you will need a 25-35 Watt Constant Current Driver of 350mA ..... Since you're buying from Satis led ,check the one we use ....Crappy but cheap..... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Constant-Current-Driver-30pcs-1W-LED-20-30-x-1W-Driver-Waterproof-/120835499130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c225b647a .... If again you want the "merkede" ( greek slang nickname for the renown deutsch automobile company ) of led drivers,for your panel check this one ....: http://www.meanwell.com/search/apc-35/default.htm
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
If your leds is one Watt ( 350mA ) you will need a driver of 320-350 mA ..... One Watters are good for multiple panel applications .... If your leds are more than one Watt : => for "3 Watt " =700mA , for "5Watt" =1050 mA Those leds are better for single panel applications along with additional lenses... So you can have 100 Watts of leds : - in the form of multiple panels.i.e => 10 panels of ten leds each. All leds one watters (350mA ) ...... OR........... -in the form of one single panel : a ) 50 leds of "3Watts " (700mA ) ....... or ........... approx with 25-30 leds driven at 1050mA ..... Tip: the most efficient way ,is the most expensive one,also..... ==== BTW ,Which one do you think it is ?
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
Ideally, one would want every inch of a plant exposed to good light. I believe a single light source is largely a waste, plants aren't 2d and we should approach illuminating them accordingly. Turning a light on and expecting a plant to grow within a given area vs absolute lighting (what I've decided to call it) and making the plant not have to "reach" or "search" for light, in my opinion, would result in an easier life for them and whatever benefits come along with having an easier life... much like humans, I assume they will become fat and lazy(and smokable)!

This also leads me to point out that with less wasted light, less power will need to be used. Another time.....
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
I almost forgot to thank you for solving my driver dilemma. I will be putting together my panel soon, much thanks to you!
 
Chronikool

Chronikool

Well-Known Member
Ive got no doubt an all white panel will work. I used 3000-3500k and 5500-6500k in my LED grow. Well that was the general spectrums. It seems to change with each Chinese merchant you buy from. :)
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
All LEDs are on their way (with extras) attached to star pcb, as well as a heatsink, the cc driver here and I'm picking up a soldering iron and wire soon. I predict a small-scale all-white grow in the works my friends, as long as I don't ruin my light somehow haha... Happy Danksgiving...
 
jubiare

jubiare

Active Member
Next time look on aliexpress/ alibaba for drivers, sorry I didn't read this before now. I am not saying go mean well, but don't even go that cheap piece of drivers! Too late it's fine, when you'll replace them:) Good luck!Get a decent soldering iron or you'll end up buying it twice in no time;)
 
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