I think it oftens seem true that wrong light red vs blue, or weak light increases stretch but i discovered this grow some plants are really stretchy. I grew a cannabiogen destroyer under a very bright fixture and the photons did not slow it down a bit.
That's fine lol... I merely share my experiences, resources and conclusions.
and initially under 400w mh. Running 6 hours more light on top of the 18 won't make them grow 33% faster. There's a healthy max intensity (ppfd) and if you want to give them more light than that (for what imo should be obvious reasons) you have according to the tests and advise I referred to the option of increasing the duration of the photoperiod, i.e. give them the same intensity but longer. Doing the opposite, introducing more dark periods, is counterproductive .
I'll have to look that up. I wonder what the threshold is for the light exposure. I'm assuming if they have to tone it down at the end they must have run into some issues doing it the whole way through
Ya could be. I think it was the grower ChurchHaze. It might have been just a rhythm he figured out to get the plant to finish up cleanly.
Sure, and I was explicitly talking about aiming for max yield over time and per run and not what makes a more desirable pheno or "happier" plants. If max yield were my goal I'd be growing in my tubes (NFT), veg on 24hr, flower with the longest photoperiod.... but it's not, so I grow organic in soil and flower 11/13 flower (less electricity while still giving me plenty till next harvest).
You mentioned that in a previous post too, forgot to reply to that: I certainly think that's a valid reason to try 11/13. Credit for that approach goes especially to DJ Short imo, he has old posts about it at another more respectable grow forum, probably wrote something about it in his book too. I would not run a pure haze on 13/11 for example... but then those don't really need a veg period either. He wrote that to suggest being able to select more sativa dom phenos earlier on though, i.e. for breeding purposes. I disagree when it comes to growing for max yields. For that it makes a lot more sense to run 13/11 and select towards plants that can handle a longer photoperiod. Just as we can still produce enough food to prevent the world from starving largely because we select and breed plants that can take up and process more nutes, not feed the same plants more, or even less.
Run a gavita DE and you won't bother with MH anymore. As I mentioned in the Light???? thread I'm aware that most people here have different standards. We grow and count only trimmable nugs. I.e. the part that can be sold. The leafy buds from spreading out an MH so much it produces over 1gpw is close to worthless when you get tens of thousands of competitors growing hard nugs with a high pistil to leaf ratio. 
we seem to be on the same path, I just bought the 10k 600w mh and have been running it for about a week, and that damn thing is BRIGHT... makes my 600w hps look like a 400w all of a sudden, like dwarfs the light, it's weird, and sure I understand its all about the visible light, but still, it's insane, almost seems twice as bright.
Oh, thanks!I like your style Doc, always have, including the long posts, and not just because they make mine look less abnormal
Sure, and I was explicitly talking about aiming for max yield over time and per run and not what makes a more desirable pheno or "happier" plants. If max yield were my goal I'd be growing in my tubes (NFT), veg on 24hr, flower with the longest photoperiod.... but it's not, so I grow organic in soil and flower 11/13 flower (less electricity while still giving me plenty till next harvest).
You mentioned that in a previous post too, forgot to reply to that: I certainly think that's a valid reason to try 11/13. Credit for that approach goes especially to DJ Short imo, he has old posts about it at another more respectable grow forum, probably wrote something about it in his book too. I would not run a pure haze on 13/11 for example... but then those don't really need a veg period either. He wrote that to suggest being able to select more sativa dom phenos earlier on though, i.e. for breeding purposes. I disagree when it comes to growing for max yields. For that it makes a lot more sense to run 13/11 and select towards plants that can handle a longer photoperiod. Just as we can still produce enough food to prevent the world from starving largely because we select and breed plants that can take up and process more nutes, not feed the same plants more, or even less.
Also, I don't believe there's a 11/13 pheno that is so much better than what can be found in 12/12 or 13/11 phenos and justifies the decreased lighting requirement. Surely the same taste, cannabinoids, structure and yield can be found in one of the many other hybrids. Same reason clone-only strains that hermie should not exist. At most, it (the hermie or the 11/13 pheno) has desirable genes that should be bred into a better variety (breeding out the gene(s) that mask the desirable gene(s) under 12/12).
Have you tried something like 11.5/12.5? Changing the light period half an hour makes a full hour difference between dark and night already and may be enough to get the desired pheno. I got to ask though, does the pheno expression really go further than just leaflet broadness, i.e. is there an actual difference in the bud it produces?
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HPS vegs and ripes just fine for the best growers I know and measure with. Experts from philips and gavita as well as the greedy dutch cannabis grower herd have been testing blue to red ratios for decades. HPS>MH but HPS+MH > HPS/MH. And Gavita DE > All
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I grow a lot more plants than I flower, giving me plenty of plants to experiment with. Like this one:
View attachment 3486855
Wish I had a pic from the side to show how much it stretched after 4 days no light. Also notice the halted chlorophyll production...
No dudes in your crib...unknown genetics bad juju!Also one of them turned out to be male
Of course it was the bag seed of some super random fire i had from my veeery first run. Havent kill it yet, but i see the lil balls forming.
Any ideas?
I cud try to collect pollen but im scared to be honest. Ive always just chopped males or ran fems. Not to mention my rooms a damn wind tunnel with all those 18" floor fans (3 total + ac + large can filter in middle of room).
Do i jus let it flower and chop the flowers off jus before they bust a nut into my air circulation system? >.>
Sir KK
I don't know.....I may yet but it would only be for the last 2-3 weeks and be 1K's......Sativieds right.....I'm doing really good with my HPS really......you know, even after 41 years of this,,,,you still try to make it better some way.....You have this little "doubt" troll on your shoulder sometimes, whispering BS in your ear....."the grass is greener over here"....
hah totally, first grow was in 1989, and I've tweaked my techniques more in the last 5 yrs than I did in all the previous yrs combined...
Really what kinda unconstitutional shit is that. "Shall not infringe" seems pretty fucking clear..... Damned liberalsThe guillotine looms.
No guns allowed for legal patients
Sir KK
Right? As if someone whose stoned is gonna suddenly get up and decide to go out and shoot up some people >.>
Sugar punch.
Yeah, nuts... great job keeping those healthy. Wish you had a plant under constant light to compare.
Beautiful espalier. Impressive, keep it up.