genetics vs. trichome maturity is making my brain hurt!

RockstarEnergy

Well-Known Member
ok people i've been researching this for about a two hours. i've searched this site, google, and other cannabis forums but all this reasearch has made me even more confused!!! :wall:

everyone is familier with "sativas give you an Up/Cerebral high, and indicas give you a body stone". BUT then they say harvesting with mostly cloudy trichomes has more THC for a cerebral high, harvesting with mostly amber trichomes has more CBN for a body stone, and a 50/50 mix gives you a happy medium.

So what the hell is the difference between sativa and indica effects if trichome maturity determines the type of high you feel? :confused:

does it mean that sativas naturally produce more THC and less CBN so amber trichs from a sativa produce a strong head high along with the body stone? and essentially the opposite with an indica??

am i making any sense or just rambling haha. can someone please help me out?

thanks
 

bigv1976

Well-Known Member
The color of your trichomes are strain dependaent. Many strains will never turn amber. They will just get cloudy.
 

desch

Member
Ive never heard of a strain not ever turning amber, that is a new one to me. Ill keep that in mind.
 

Unnk

Well-Known Member
tbh there are SEVERAL factors thatwill determine when your plant is gonna finish

light intensity

humidity

temps

co2 or not

these are all factors on determining when your strain is gonna finish other than that its dependant on genetics

some sativa's will NEVER amber

the only way to truely know get your hands wet pull plants at diff times one at 8 one at 9 one at 10 and one at 11

tell me what YOU think is the best high for yah.
 

krok

Active Member
Can't believe nobody answered.

Grow a sativa until it is ripe.
Grow an indica until ripe.

It's not about harvest time, but genetics.
I know harvesting at different times gives different effects, but you will not get a true sativa high no matter when you harvest your indica.

In other words, thricome maturity is not the only factor (regarding what effect you get smoking it)
 

DunLarkin

Well-Known Member
So are you guys basically suggesting to harvest when the flowers are ripe and not when trichomes turn amber because depending on environmental conditions some strains may not amber?
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
ok people i've been researching this for about a two hours. i've searched this site, google, and other cannabis forums but all this reasearch has made me even more confused!!! :wall:

everyone is familier with "sativas give you an Up/Cerebral high, and indicas give you a body stone". BUT then they say harvesting with mostly cloudy trichomes has more THC for a cerebral high, harvesting with mostly amber trichomes has more CBN for a body stone, and a 50/50 mix gives you a happy medium.

So what the hell is the difference between sativa and indica effects if trichome maturity determines the type of high you feel? :confused:

does it mean that sativas naturally produce more THC and less CBN so amber trichs from a sativa produce a strong head high along with the body stone? and essentially the opposite with an indica??

am i making any sense or just rambling haha. can someone please help me out?

thanks
Sativas lose some of their 'kick' if you harvest at amber trics but by no means would a racy sativa harvested late equal the total couch-lock buzz that indicas yield.

BTW, this is an OLD thread.
 

gobbly

Well-Known Member
the difference between high's of strains, and high's of ripeness are two different things. In ripening THC eventually will degrade into less active compounds. In strain it's typically a difference in ratios of THC to CBD. Regardless, opinions range from all cloudy with no amber for peak thc, to 30%+ amber.
 

Brick Top

New Member
ok people i've been researching this for about a two hours. i've searched this site, google, and other cannabis forums but all this reasearch has made me even more confused!!! :wall:

everyone is familier with "sativas give you an Up/Cerebral high, and indicas give you a body stone". BUT then they say harvesting with mostly cloudy trichomes has more THC for a cerebral high, harvesting with mostly amber trichomes has more CBN for a body stone, and a 50/50 mix gives you a happy medium.

So what the hell is the difference between sativa and indica effects if trichome maturity determines the type of high you feel? :confused:

does it mean that sativas naturally produce more THC and less CBN so amber trichs from a sativa produce a strong head high along with the body stone? and essentially the opposite with an indica??

am i making any sense or just rambling haha. can someone please help me out?

thanks

1.) Harvesting by trichome color, clear or cloudy/milky/amber will only fine tune your high or stone, or ruin what you grew if you take it too far.

2.) A true body stone/couch-lock stone comes from CBD, not CBN.

3.) When THC oxidizes, when it is lost, it transforms into CBN which is only mildly psychoactive and causes confusion and disorientation and drowsiness and sleepiness in the smoker. It is a fake body stone, a false couch-lock.

4.) Amber trichomes are a sign that THC is/has oxidized, that it has been lost, that it's total amount is decreasing rather than increasing, that it is transforming into CBN.

In their insane quest to create 'The Holy Grail' for recreational users 'The Dutch Masters,' and many other breeders, most in fact, have almost totally bred CBD out of most every strain. Most strains are less than 1% CBD and if you find one that is 1.5% or 2% that is a bunch these days.

Since so many people have fallen for the indica fad and prefer a body stone, a couch-lock stone you would think that breeders would breed for higher amounts of CBD, but to so that they would have to give up THC and advertising a strain with 8% THC and 14% CBD would not sound appealing to tokers, not even to couch-lock lovers because most everyone believes that the highest THC levels are all important. But they are not to a true body stone lover.

Since there is so very little CBD in modern crosses people turned to throwing away THC, allowing it to oxidize and become CBN to get a fake body stone, a false couch-lock ... even though they do not know or refuse to accept that by doing that they have sacrificed the most psychoactive cannabinoid, THC, for one that is nearly worthless, that is a byproduct of THC that has been lost through oxidation.

CANNABINOL (CBN)




Cannabinol is the primary degradation product of THC and increases in concentration with plant age. The concentration of this product in the bud is heavily dependent on the time of harvest. Harvesting the bud at a late stage also means that the concentration of CBN in relation to THC will be higher when compared to the peak of THC production.

CBN content increases as THC degrades. It is only mildly psychoactive and can cause "fuzzy head", drowsiness, disorientation and sleepiness in the smoker, properties that can be considered unpleasant in nature compared to the clear high of the THC. Its affinity to the CB2 receptors is higher than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that it mostly affects the body.

THC BIOSYNTHESIS




Juiced Marijuana Offered to Medical Users as Alternative to Smoking
June 15, 2010

News Summary

A California physician is offering his medical-marijuana patients a liquefied version of the drug that he says won't produce much of a buzz but does contain chemicals helpful in treating a variety of illnesses, the Washington Post reported June 1.


Willets, Calif., physician William Courtney, M.D., said that marijuana with high levels of cannabidiol (CBD) seems to have the most medical potential; ironically, CBD levels seem to be lowest in marijuana strains of the plant that are highest in THC -- the main psychoactive substance in marijuana.


"What has happened is, almost all strains available in America through the black market are THC concentrates," said Ethan Russo, senior medical adviser to GW Pharmaceuticals, which is developing the marijuana-based pain medication Sativex. "The CBD in almost all cases has been bred out. The reason is cannabis in this country has been cultivated for its intoxicating effect."


Medical-marijuana advocates want to see more research into CBD. "The bridge to legalization is medical marijuana," said Addison DeMoura, one of the owners of the Steep Hill Medical Collective in Oakland. "I believe the bridge from medical marijuana to real science will be CBDs."
Why Modern Medical Cannabis Strains have Minimal CBD


Sam the Skunkman says that nearly all modern cannabis is pretty much CBD-free or the levels are so low as to be miniscule, landrace indicas are the way to go.

Right now there's simply no strains available where cbd will make up more than 2% of the overall cannabinoids and no way of cultivating a noticeably higher cbd content. For the most part conversion of cbg into cbd is controlled by a single gene (Bd) which is codominant with the gene that converts cbg into thc.

For example a plant that inherits a Bd gene from one parent and a Bt gene from the other will have roughly equal content of Cbd and Thc. However, if the plant is homozygous for Bd it will have very little thc and if its homozygous for Bt it will have very little Cbd.


While it is true that afghani landraces can have a high cbd content. Since having a Bd gene will replace half of the thc content with cbd seed companies always remove the Bd allele from the gene pool in order to maximize thc potency and stay competitive.


In order to fully understand and appreciate the most important cannabinoids, we first have to take a look at how they are produced inside the plant from lesser, precursor compounds.


By looking at this picture we get a better view of the metabolic pathway that leads to the desired psychoactive product called THC.


The metabolic chain that leads to THC starts when geranyl pyrophosphate combines with olivetolic acid, in order to create cannabigerolic acid (CBGA). This carboxylic acid is the shared precursor of all the three major cannabinoids that can be found in the plant; THC, CBD and CBC.

The cannabigerolic acid then forms into the carboxylic acid precursor of each of the named compounds. Cannabichromenic acid (CBCA) turns into the nonpsychoactive compound CBC. Cannabidiolic acid (CBDA) turns into the therapeutic cannabinoid CBD and finally tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA) turns into the much sought after and highly psychoactive cannabinoid THC or tetrahydrocannabinol.

The carboxylic acids are characterized by the presence of the carboxyl group (-COOH). The carboxyl group splits off from the acid compounds through a process called decarboxylation, giving rise to CO2 in the process. This happens with age (curing) or when they are heated (smoked), effectively turning them into the final products. The curing process that the buds go through inside the jars, can actually be considered a slow decarboxylation process, so the result is the same. This however means that the plant can contain both the carboxylic acid form of THC as well as the finished product. More or less, depending on when it is measured.

THC later oxidizes and is reduced into CBN further down the chain, which is why we keep our buds in airtight jars. The oxidation process is also sped up with high temperature and light, which is why it's a good idea to store your buds in a cool and dark place. The process cannot however be halted completely, which means that very old bud will contain mostly this degradation product.


This biological production of the much desired THC compound that has made the cannabis plant so famous, all take place inside something called a trichome. Trichomes are fine outgrowths or appendages on plants that resemble crystal mushrooms in cannabis. Trichomes are not unique to cannabis plants but the psychoactive components that can be found in it are.




These "mushrooms" are in fact stalked, glandular containers of cannabis oil, which matures as it goes through the transformation into THC from lesser cannabinoid compounds.


THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF TRICHOME GLANDS

Trichomes are fine outgrowths or appendages on plants, also called resin glands. Trichomes can vary in size and structure depending on the plant in question. We are however only interested in the trichomes found on cannabis plants.

There are three known types of glands that occur on the cannabis plant.
They are most heavily concentrated on the floral parts of the female plant:


(Photo by Pistals)



Bulbous


These types of gland are the smallest (15-30 micron across). Anywhere from one to four cells make up the "foot" and "stalk," and one to four cells make up the "head" of the gland. They can be found everywhere on the surface of the plant that is above ground level. Head cells secrete a resin, presumably cannabinoids, and related compounds that accumulate between the head cells and the cuticle.



Capitate – Sessile


The second type of gland is larger (25 to 100 micrometers) and more numerous than the bulbous glands. They are called capitate, which means having a globular-shaped head. On immature plants, the heads lie flush, appearing not to have a stalk and are called capitate sessile. They have a stalk that is one cell high, although it may not be visible beneath the globular head. These cells secrete cannabinoids and related compounds.





Capitate – Stalked

These type of glands appear during flowering and occur especially on the bracts subtending a flower and seed and also small leaves that accompany the flowers. They contain the highest concentration of cannabinoids and can range in size from 150 – 500 microns. The male flowers also have stalked glands, but they are smaller and less concentrated than on the female plant. These resin glands contain the most THC, which is also why they are the most important. Good cannabis plants have mostly capitate-stalked glandular trichomes and in very high concentration.


(The structures pointed out by the red arrow is a cystolith hair that lack the bulbous head of the other trichomes.)


In order to determine the dominant type of trichome on your plant, you will need to look at the female flowers through magnification. Although different plants may seem as frosty as the next, it is actually the dominant type of trichome and the concentration in which it occurs that determines the potency of the final product.


The capitate-stalked glandular trichome changes color as it matures. Newly formed and immature glands are clear, glands reaching optimum THC production are cloudy or milky and amber trichomes have already passed their peak. By looking at the trichomes you can also determine the best time to harvest your plants. When most trichomes have gone cloudy and a few amber ones have appeared, the plant is at its peak.




INSIDE THE TRICHOME

THC and other cannabinoids are produced mostly in one place on the cannabis plant:
inside the heads of the capitate-stalked trichomes.



How it happens:

Organelles produced by the plant called Vacuoles - which contain phenols, a chemical compound similar to alcohol and another type of organelle called plastids - containing hydrocarbons called terpenes, make their way up the trichome stalk and combine inside the secretory cavity into a fibrous mat. This concentrated mat is hit by UV-B light waves, causing the creation of cannabinoids. Since all of the psychoactive ingredients are produced inside the trichome, these tiny resin heads have long been sought after by hash and oil makers and can be separated from the plant and harvest in a variety of ways.

 

DunLarkin

Well-Known Member
Brick, when I look at my afghan kush I see alot of sessile type trihomes and not a ton of the Stalked like I see on some other strains, why is this? They look like stalked that are missing the heads.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Brick, when I look at my afghan kush I see alot of sessile type trihomes and not a ton of the Stalked like I see on some other strains, why is this? They look like stalked that are missing the heads.
Depending on genetics not every trichome stalk will develop a head, they will just look like short hairs. There are non-glandular trichomes.



Now if you are looking at them after harvest and or drying and curing there is the chance the heads were knocked off. If plants flower in high humidity they will grow longer taller thinner stalks and the plants/buds will look very frosty but they are prone to being broken off. It can happen while the plants are still growing, say if someone has to stake their plants and tie them up or or rearrange them under their lights or remove them from their normal positions for flushing etc.

Likely though in the case you mentioned it is just a case of genetics.
 
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