Genotype vs Phenotype

psyte

psyte

Active Member
I have a question about genotype vs phenotype and this seemed like the best place to post it.

It seems to me like a lot of growers use the word "phenotype" incorrectly when describing the differences between two plants grown from seeds of the same strain. From my admittedly very limited understanding of basic genetics... aren't phenotypes the results of the same genotype expressing itself differently in different environments? In other words, when someone is growing multiple seeds of the same strain under the exact same conditions and they say they have different phenotypes, how could that be correct? The environmental factors would be the same so how would that cause the expression of two different phenotypes? Wouldn't that be an expression of slightly different genotypes?

If you had a plant with high phenotype plasticity, you could conceivably grow a clone of it in a very different environment and have a very different looking plant, but that's the only case where it seems it would be appropriate to call it a different phenotype.

I'm just curious if I'm missing something here or if we're using the word phenotype incorrectly.
 
S

suTraGrow

Well-Known Member
phenotype is what you see; stretching, leaf formation, leaf size etc...
genotype you dont see but its the traits the plant carries in it self such as; Hermaphrodite gene
 
racerboy71

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
psyte said:
I have a question about genotype vs phenotype and this seemed like the best place to post it.

It seems to me like a lot of growers use the word "phenotype" incorrectly when describing the differences between two plants grown from seeds of the same strain. From my admittedly very limited understanding of basic genetics... aren't phenotypes the results of the same genotype expressing itself differently in different environments? In other words, when someone is growing multiple seeds of the same strain under the exact same conditions and they say they have different phenotypes, how could that be correct? The environmental factors would be the same so how would that cause the expression of two different phenotypes? Wouldn't that be an expression of slightly different genotypes?

If you had a plant with high phenotype plasticity, you could conceivably grow a clone of it in a very different environment and have a very different looking plant, but that's the only case where it seems it would be appropriate to call it a different phenotype.

I'm just curious if I'm missing something here or if we're using the word phenotype incorrectly.
Click to expand...
i get into this talk all of the time with my friend doobieus, and she agree's completely about your definitions of pheno and geno types, and you're correct, that most people here use the terms incorrectly...
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Phenotype is the physical expression of the genotype.
Put another way ... the genotype is the map; the phenotype is the territory. The phenotype tells you about the genotype of the individual.
Changes in the phenotype always show that changes happened in the genotype. That's why clone lines don't have "phenos", but strains from seed do. Each seed has a distinct genotype.

Don't know if this helped ... cn
 
psyte

psyte

Active Member
cannabineer said:
Phenotype is the physical expression of the genotype.
Put another way ... the genotype is the map; the phenotype is the territory. The phenotype tells you about the genotype of the individual.
Changes in the phenotype always show that changes happened in the genotype. that's why clone lines don't have "phenos", but strains from seed do. Each seed has a distinct genotype. cn
Click to expand...
I have heard that if you grow an indica/sativa hybrid in conditions very similar to the natural environment of sativas, it will look and act more like a sativa. But if you grow it in conditions very similar to the natural environment of an indica then it will look and act more indica. I'm not sure if this is true, but this seems like the only example of a phenotype I've come across in cannabis cultivation.

But if two different seedlings of the same strain look different, it seems to confuse the issue if it is called a different phenotype because it is much more likely just a different genotype. The sibling seedlings don't look different because their environment is different (which may indicate a different pheno), but because their basic genetics is different even if only slightly (genotype).
 
psyte

psyte

Active Member
Actually, a plant herming under stressful conditions would be another example of phenotype expression.
 
S

suTraGrow

Well-Known Member
Yes but a plant with the hermy gene already in it is a example of genotype . Kinda like every dam seed from Green House Seed Company ;)
 
psyte

psyte

Active Member
Sort of. When the plant is actually stressed into expressing hermaphroditic traits it is displaying phenotype. The potential to herm is in the genotype, but if it is dependent on environment (ie would not have happened under less stressful conditions) then it's a phenotypic expression. The exception would be a strain that consistently herms regardless of environment, that would indicate a hermaphroditic genotype. This is where it starts to get a bit confusing for me since there seems to be a lot of subtly in determining what is pheno or geno. The only thing that still seems certain to me is that we use the term pheno a lot when the majority of the time it seems more likely what we are seeing is a different geno (similar, like with brothers and sisters, but still different).
 
psyte

psyte

Active Member
Actually, the brothers and sisters thing is a good example. If you have two plants of the same strain from seed that look different, they can be compared to two fraternal twins, they have similar traits and you can tell the are related, but their genotype is different. You would never say their phenotype is different because their base genetics are different so it is impossible for them to be phenotypes of each other. Where you would talk about phenotypes would be with two identical twins who look different (see the Otto and Ewald example here: http://www.thehealthyteacher.com/2011/04/11/genotype-vs-phenotype-the-difference/). To me it seems much more likely that when you grow a 5 pack of seeds, you get 5 fraternal twins, not 5 identical twins. Even if you did get 5 identical twins, the only way you would see different phenos is if you grew each with different enough growing conditions to get them to express different latent genetics. Most of our setups are hopefully more controlled than that.
 
The Chemist Brothers

The Chemist Brothers

Active Member
Phenotype= visible traits and how the environment effects the plant. (purples, greens, smells)
Genotype= Genetics of said plant. since no seed is exactly the same genotype, its best understood that clones, who have identical genotypes may give different phenotypes and usually will when grown in different environments. take a clone of something you like, grow one of these plants in a Hydroponic environment and grow the other in super-soil. the hydro will yield better and probably have less of a pungent odor while the super-soil will yield likely less, but because of the different condition for which the roots grow, the phenotype is changed.


you can say that sour diesel is a phenotype of cannabis, and be correct but sour diesel is also a genotype of cannabis. it gets annoying when going into semantics but you have the right idea.
 
psyte

psyte

Active Member
The SD example is interesting. I can see how people confuse the terms if that's the case.
 
redzi

redzi

Well-Known Member
Seed breeders sometimes want to downsize their plants..i had this kannabia white dominia, 10 seeds. Some stretched, majority were bushy, but one had 7 sets of leaves and was under 2 inches by week 4...it was never going to be a producer but I kept it around because it started filling every gap until it looked more like a vine..no more than 4 inches thick from leaf tip to tip at a height of 13 inches...a rash of burglaries in the area made me take it down because of all the unwanted attention... %$#& meth heads..kill them all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top