Going from HPS to LED. Worth it?

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Ouch!
I hear what you are saying but surely all being equall the yeilds should be similar at least, I think I commented on your grow looking well respectable and played a part in me buying one?
Have you grown with hps to compare?

Maybe I'm missing something but you can only hang any light at the right hight and grow your best, if you're familiar with the process I wouldn't expect much difference if the light was up to it, ime ability isn't light related it's everything combined?
I'm no expert but have learned through trial and error and a lot of reading of what others did or did not achieve.

Led is by all accounts more efficient, so you ''can'' use slightly less W for the same yield as HPS in the right circumstance. In a flat canopy I would expect Led to yield more than hps since W for W led is putting out more light and spreads it over the canopy. This basically increases quality of all the top buds and is one reason why it's important to fill the canopy in a flat dimension with led, due to the unit design.

Most people who grow with HPS either use closed hood or a flat canopy. I never understood this outside of heat issues. If you can use an open wing cheap hood and shape the canopy into a cylinder shape (following the contour of the bulb basically) then you can have more canopy in range. Essentially you go from a 4x4 to a 6x4, something like that. This could allow hps to still compete with Led W for W in weight. Not many do this since they are unaware or simply can not be bothered. It isn't easy to achieve in the confines of a tent, but is definitely worth giving a go at some point. Some people go the full way and use a vertical cage, utilising every possible W of hps.

I just think that led for a lot of people is more practical in the way we all commonly like to grow. I would suggest that led quality or terp production seems to be superior to hps but that could well have been my lack of ability with hps or the added intensity and even spread of led W for W of input.

What I also like more about Led (cob specifically) is that the heat is sent up into the roof, making canopy tempts easier to maintain at a higher intensity. Light bleaching/stress can become a serious problem if not careful, but heat stress is far less of a limiting factor in light heights. In other words you will likely see heat stress with hps as it radiates it onto the canopy, before you see light bleaching, giving you less room to play with. The size and power of hps bulbs also doesn't help in spreading out the heat and light more safely.

I really don't have a problem with hps, I'd use it again in a stadium style format.. but I can't see that happening since led is a lot more versatile (you can do the same stadium with led). It's very forgiving if a canopy gets away from you, to angle lights and change individual areas of intensity as to not make the rest of the canopy suffer for a few wayward tops. People who use high W single led units are giving themselves all the downsides of high W hps and very few of the upsides of using led. I don't understand that choice either unless it's purely for easier logistics. Not everybody is about max yield, since that will most certainly include a lot more work, it's very relative.
 
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Lockedin

Well-Known Member
NASA's space grow is tiny and not very good and sure they didn't reach out to anyone but allowed companies to submit proposals and go from there, nothing seemed state of the art and quite basic and boring.

Why would I use LEDs in space when I'm right next to the biggest and brightest power source in the solar system, initially just for research on zero g, after that a few nuclear reactors or just a clear domed space greenhouse is reason enough to drop LEDs for less efficiency because I now have limetless energy.
Because Mars, Jupiter, Infinity (and beyond!) are much farther away from that light.
But for orbit that makes sense.

They're trying to engineer a true biosphere - a self sustaining environment.

My friend comes close in his aquarium; balances the water every 6mos. or so, VERY rarely has to feed.
But it takes a 25 gal. tank filled mostly with filter / decomp animals to support 3-4 fish --- I can imagine that a space-borne bioshpere would be
just-a-tad tougher to achieve.
 

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
I'm no expert but have learned through trial and error and a lot of reading of what others did or did not achieve.

Led is by all accounts more efficient, so you ''can'' use slightly less W for the same yield as HPS in the right circumstance. In a flat canopy I would expect Led to yield more than hps since W for W led is putting out more light and spreads it over the canopy. This basically increases quality of all the top buds and is one reason why it's important to fill the canopy in a flat dimension with led, due to the unit design.

Most people who grow with HPS either use closed hood or a flat canopy. I never understood this outside of heat issues. If you can use an open wing cheap hood and shape the canopy into a cylinder shape (following the contour of the bulb basically) then you can have more canopy in range. Essentially you go from a 4x4 to a 6x4, something like that. This could allow hps to still compete with Led W for W in weight. Not many do this since they are unaware or simply can not be bothered. It isn't easy to achieve in the confines of a tent, but is definitely worth giving a go at some point. Some people go the full way and use a vertical cage, utilising every possible W of hps.

I just think that led for a lot of people is more practical in the way we all commonly like to grow. I would suggest that led quality or terp production seems to be superior to hps but that could well have been my lack of ability with hps or the added intensity and even spread of led W for W of input.

What I also like more about Led (cob specifically) is that the heat is sent up into the roof, making canopy tempts easier to maintain at a higher intensity. Light bleaching/stress can become a serious problem if not careful, but heat stress is far less of a limiting factor in light heights. In other words you will likely see heat stress with hps as it radiates it onto the canopy, before you see light bleaching, giving you less room to play with. The size and power of hps bulbs also doesn't help in spreading out the heat and light more safely.

I really don't have a problem with hps, I'd use it again in a stadium style format.. but I can't see that happening since led is a lot more versatile (you can do the same stadium with led). It's very forgiving if a canopy gets away from you, to angle lights and change individual areas of intensity as to not make the rest of the canopy suffer for a few wayward tops. People who use high W single led units are giving themselves all the downsides of high W led and very few of the upsides of using led. I don't understand that choice either unless it's purely for easier logistics. Not everybody is about max yield, since that will most certainly include a lot more work, it's very relative.
I'm actually thinking about making the yeilds 2nd to convenience instead of 1st priority, I'm packing my tent to the max, sometimes this works against me I can't get in the tent to see to manage them, every single thing is stretching, reaching and bending it's killing my back.

Atm I've got 10 clones rooted all potential mothers and 8 in flower, I'm seriously considering just one big plant for the next crop so that I'm able to get inside the tent with it.
All of my time is rushed and has to be done quickly and quietly, due to the nosey neighbours, I'd love to be able to get in my tent so that I could sit with a joint and cup o tea and prune and tie at a leisurely pace.

I can't face another big crop which creates a bit of conundrum on what to do with the other potential mothers?
Do I bite the bullet and do once again or keep them ticking over until I can decide what phenos are desirable, in the past the best phenos haven't been obvious I need a bit of time to notice the subtle difference between different phenos.
 

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
I'll be sticking with mh/hps to flower until I can get a feel for the led, from what I'm reading watt for watt the old hps can still hold its own against the new technologies?
"Watt" have you been smoking?

Watt for watt, you're gonna get more light from LED. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.

(I run 2,500 watts of LED.)
 

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
You are 100% correct I ran two cycles of hlg 550 with AC an co2 it was trash yeah they flowered faster but the overall yield was still half that of HPS ima veteran ran 1000 watt hps for years no problem keep a fresh bulb an dust them hoods off plug an go 1 gram per watt or .7 gram per watt average every time without co2 like to see led do that
So you ran half the watts and expected the same results??? wow... :dunce:
 

Flowki

Well-Known Member
I'm actually thinking about making the yeilds 2nd to convenience instead of 1st priority, I'm packing my tent to the max, sometimes this works against me I can't get in the tent to see to manage them, every single thing is stretching, reaching and bending it's killing my back.

Atm I've got 10 clones rooted all potential mothers and 8 in flower, I'm seriously considering just one big plant for the next crop so that I'm able to get inside the tent with it.
All of my time is rushed and has to be done quickly and quietly, due to the nosey neighbours, I'd love to be able to get in my tent so that I could sit with a joint and cup o tea and prune and tie at a leisurely pace.

I can't face another big crop which creates a bit of conundrum on what to do with the other potential mothers?
Do I bite the bullet and do once again or keep them ticking over until I can decide what phenos are desirable, in the past the best phenos haven't been obvious I need a bit of time to notice the subtle difference between different phenos.
Yeah that's your choice. If the space is a 4x4 you could break it down to a 4x3 or even 4x2.5 so you have room to work around the edges that has no doors. For your particular case this refined logistics might actually increase yield or make it far more consistent. It's funny how we all discuss this and that but leave out the fact humans can burn out and half arse the job. That matters too.

I also agree with chunky but for a different reason. The lower W of multiple led units will allow you to cator to an odd dimension and not waste the light.

You could also consider verticle growing. Two plants near the back of a 4x4 wall with a net dropping down would be quite easy to maintain, and would allow you to point side lighting at it with ample room to manoeuvre yourself around. You'd have to check your bulbs/hood are safe to do that though.
 
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Star Dog

Well-Known Member
"Watt" have you been smoking?

Watt for watt, you're gonna get more light from LED. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.

(I run 2,500 watts of LED.)
Idk I'm new to led but the reading I'm going suggests led is no better than hps, I'm quite impressed with my kingbright and I will get around to flowering with it in the near future, if it can produce 1gpw I'll be delighted, if it can't it's a fantastically versatile light for veg that covers a multitude of different bulbs, in just one light I've got a replacement for my maxibright Ts reflector with 4x T5s, cfl,s and a mh, there's no bulbs to buy and it's dimmable, the colour is superior to T5s and cfl it's richer like the mh bulbs with that platinum white colour, the one I have is 4k
 

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Idk I'm new to led but the reading I'm going suggests led is no better than hps, I'm quite impressed with my kingbright and I will get around to flowering with it in the near future, if it can produce 1gpw I'll be delighted, if it can't it's a fantastically versatile light for veg that covers a multitude of different bulbs, in just one light I've got a replacement for my maxibright Ts reflector with 4x T5s, cfl,s and a mh, there's no bulbs to buy and it's dimmable, the colour is superior to T5s and cfl it's richer like the mh bulbs with that platinum white colour, the one I have is 4k
Is more light in the proper spectrum better?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes.

Watt for watt, LED will kick the shit out of HID every time.
 

Xcoregamerskillz

Well-Known Member
I run a Black Dog phytomax-2 1,000w and three platinum P900s. (The platinums pull ~500w each.)

It is bright AF. :cool:

And I still have to deal with heat issues.
1,000 watts of LED will run just as hot as 1,000 watts of HID.
Those are some pricey lights. How long do the boards last?
 

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
Yeah that's your choice. If the space is a 4x4 you could break it down to a 4x3 or even 4x2.5 so you have room to work around the edges that has no doors. For your particular case this refined logistics might actually increase yield or make it far more consistent. It's funny how we all discuss this and that but leave out the fact humans can burn out and half arse the job. That matters too.

I also agree with chunky but for a differant reason. The lower W of multiple led units will allow you to cator to an odd dimention and not waste the light.
I
Is more light in the proper spectrum better?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes.

Watt for watt, LED will kick the shit out of HID every time.
I really hope so, if I could get the same results using led I could afford to run perpetually for less, atm I can't afford to run both tents properly, I get them rooted in a clone bunker with T5s then move into the 5x5 to bring them on then flower.
A 400w for 18hrs works out at around £15 a week.
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Personally, I think LED is best done DIY. Companies charge huge markup to put stuff together. Lots of people swear by HLG, but that kinda money for a light is nuts. You're better off buying a less expensive light and dialing in a smaller grow to LED and making comparisons on gpw there, as opposed to going all in on overpriced lighting. Costs will come down. The biggest issue with LED is there's new stuff every year as electronics improve. It's like the PC market right now. Every year or two there's a jump in output and efficiency.
Ya, new boards come out all the time, but I can just replace the boards in my HLG lights with the new boards if I wanted. I could put all new Diablo boards in now, but I'm happy with how mine work. They'll probably have even better ones to change to in a few more years.

Nothing wrong with DIY, but I'm a big fan of HLG. They deserve some credit. They created QB's to begin with.
 
Try ufo highbay led
Just bought some their very very bright and their meant to be way better then a hps also the keeps temperature perfect i have used couple different leds and the ufo is my favourite so far man they last about 7 years and u dont need to change any globes after 7 years throw them out

Im done with hps
 

mistergrafik

Well-Known Member
Hi there guys, i've been lurking the forums for years and now left the shadows in order to ask for some guidance.

I've been growing with 600W HPS for a while now, on a 3x3 tent, yields have been always good, 9 plants => 14 oz.

Now i'm thinking investing some dough on LED, and a bigger tent. The idea is:

5x5 Tent
450 off-the-wall Watt Full spectrum LED, chips are COB, 120° lens (http://www.piranha.cl/iluminacion-cultivo-indoor/16/led-cultivo-piranha-tesla-t810w.html) its in spanish sorry :c.

Will this be a real upgrade in terms of quality/yield? should I look for other types of LED?

Thanks in advance for any guidance!
One thing I've noticed in California.. My joints don't have resin anymore. Not that I liked getting resin on my lips but I did enjoy the strength it lent to the smoke. Since California has been shifting to LED's over the past few years ... I just noticed the other day that none of my spliffs have resin anymore. Could be the LED.
 

Flowki

Well-Known Member
No. The fans keep the drivers and panels cool. They add to the cost, but they're not shit because of it.
But he's kind of right, a fan has the ability to fail. I don't know the thermal protection of such a unit under fan failure?, but I would personally prefer something that is designed to be passively cooled. That way you require multiple other failures to really be in the shit.
 
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