Gun Control

Stricter Gun Control In US

  • Yes, stricter control.

    Votes: 22 17.2%
  • No, we love our guns!

    Votes: 106 82.8%

  • Total voters
    128

7xstall

Well-Known Member
In January 2002, a student at the Virginia Appalachian School of Law, Peter Odighizuwa, shot three people dead before other students were able to retrieve guns from their cars and put an end to the carnage before there was more bloodshed. Over thirty victims at VA Tech yesterday were denied that right as a result of a campus gun control law that helped the shooter pick off his targets at will.



Gun Control Law Helped Campus Killer


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gooner69

Active Member
they rock pretty well because my mom would probably drop the bastard...don't have a sister.




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just wot if they shot her first well either way guns aint goin now where 1 way or the other they get around i live in uk n there illegal and they all around
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
just wot if they shot her first well either way guns aint goin now where 1 way or the other they get around i live in uk n there illegal and they all around
i doubt that a purse snatcher or car thief would have got their gun legally anyway.

that's the main point i've got. make them illegal and they're only harder for law abiding people to get... there's an underground to supply criminals but what about the regular people? lost.






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skunkushybrid

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
Gun control laws are only for law abiding citizens.

fact.

Of course they aren't. They are for everybody, especially criminals. A law abiding citizen would get less time for carrying a firearm than a convicted felon. So with this point gun control is still working in favour of the 'law abiding citizen' (couldn't help the inverted commas there). If a law abiding citizen carries a firearm they are no longer a law abiding citizen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
Criminals don't care what the laws are.

fact.

Not true either. Of course criminals care what the laws are. Just because a criminal commits one type of crime does not mean they will commit another type. So, in this respect even criminals care about the law. The law often reflects our morals, and everybody (well most) have these. Just because a guy regularly steals for a living does not make him a rapist or murderer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
More gun control keeps weapons out of the hands of honest, hard working people who only want to protect themselves.

fact.

No, it is these honest, hard working people that go crazy and start killing people for no apparent reason. Look at the stats, how many of these incidents have been committed by ex cons? How many of these incidents have been commited by normally law abiding citizens?


Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
What good was gun control in VA...the law said no guns on the campus.

reference to logical paradox, effective.

Yes, and the other side is that with stricter gun controls a dickhead like this would not have had access to a gun... hence no shooting in the first place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
I guess the criminal didn't get the memo.

inference but nice way to show that violent criminals don't mind breaking laws.

I'm sorry have I missed something? This guy wasn't a regular violent criminal (most violence commited by criminals is merely a means to an end, they want what you have, not to hurt you) was he? His girl left him for another guy and he guns them both down. This tips him over the edge, and I think he blamed the college... runs home etc, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
If law abiding citizens were not restricted so much to where they can cary thier guns, maybe the the gunman would have been stopped.

hundreds of armed citizens prevent crimes every year. look at stats in places where concealed carry is common, not many muggings, rapes, etc.

Also look at the stats where have-a-go heroes are themselves gunned down. Then look at the stats for firearm misfires that kill these heroes, or blow there own hands off. Then the stats for the little kids that mange to get a hold of (admittedly irresponsible) daddy's loaded gun and blows their own head off. Or the next kid to take his daddy's gun to jail because he has a beef with a bigger kid.




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7xstall

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
Gun control laws are only for law abiding citizens.

fact.

Of course they aren't. They are for everybody, especially criminals. A law abiding citizen would get less time for carrying a firearm than a convicted felon. So with this point gun control is still working in favour of the 'law abiding citizen' (couldn't help the inverted commas there). If a law abiding citizen carries a firearm they are no longer a law abiding citizen.
gun control laws only affect people who follow the laws. that's a fact. if a law abiding citizen becomes a criminal by carrying a gun there needs to be one hell of a revolution.



Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
Criminals don't care what the laws are.

fact.

Not true either. Of course criminals care what the laws are. Just because a criminal commits one type of crime does not mean they will commit another type. So, in this respect even criminals care about the law. The law often reflects our morals, and everybody (well most) have these. Just because a guy regularly steals for a living does not make him a rapist or murderer.
still a fact and still true. a law banning guns will have no affect on a criminal who wishes to carry out illegal acts on unarmed people with his illegally obtained gun.


Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
More gun control keeps weapons out of the hands of honest, hard working people who only want to protect themselves.

fact.

No, it is these honest, hard working people that go crazy and start killing people for no apparent reason. Look at the stats, how many of these incidents have been committed by ex cons? How many of these incidents have been commited by normally law abiding citizens?
that guy was mentally disturbed, his creative writing professor sent his stuff to psychologists and recommended counseling. we'll see how this plays out in the media but this fact made him ineligible for purchasing a firearm under current (good) state and federal laws in the U.S.

are you going to stand up here, electronically, and say that if the rednecks (and there are plenty) on that campus were allowed to have their guns on campus that none of them would have put an end to this thing before 33+ people were killed?

at some level, psychopaths always function within society until they break. laws will not prevent this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
What good was gun control in VA...the law said no guns on the campus.

reference to logical paradox, effective.

Yes, and the other side is that with stricter gun controls a dickhead like this would not have had access to a gun... hence no shooting in the first place.
the law did nothing to prevent human malice, it won't, ever.

with this "stricter gun controls" of yours, you are talking about laws that must be enforced on a level that would cause a very bloody revolution SKH. you might think this is just tough talk or blabbering but i assure you that the government will not ever take guns from Americans. they started to try it in New Orleans just after the storm and it got put down quick. it was about to become very bloody but the government backed off. the media ran just shy of putting this out there but it did happen, google if you want.

they might have rocked you guys to sleep over there in Euro land but i'm drinking coffee and lots of it; so are many other liberty and freedom loving Americans. i'm watching the laws and i'm putting my money where my mouth is. it will not happen here, it can not happen here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
I guess the criminal didn't get the memo.

inference but nice way to show that violent criminals don't mind breaking laws.

I'm sorry have I missed something? This guy wasn't a regular violent criminal (most violence commited by criminals is merely a means to an end, they want what you have, not to hurt you) was he? His girl left him for another guy and he guns them both down. This tips him over the edge, and I think he blamed the college... runs home etc, etc...
this was a reference to the big picture; criminals who want to use guns to help them break the law will not really care what is legislated.

yes, this was a psychological break. as you say, a means to an end. more repressive gun laws would not have helped. he could have created a bomb or something worse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by castewalpha
If law abiding citizens were not restricted so much to where they can cary thier guns, maybe the the gunman would have been stopped.

hundreds of armed citizens prevent crimes every year. look at stats in places where concealed carry is common, not many muggings, rapes, etc.

Also look at the stats where have-a-go heroes are themselves gunned down. Then look at the stats for firearm misfires that kill these heroes, or blow there own hands off. Then the stats for the little kids that mange to get a hold of (admittedly irresponsible) daddy's loaded gun and blows their own head off. Or the next kid to take his daddy's gun to jail because he has a beef with a bigger kid.




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people who enable accidents through such gross negligence should be prosecuted with existing laws, common sense.

just because another family lacks the decency and morality to teach their children that it's wrong to kill does not mean you have a basis to take my guns away. if anything, i need those guns so their kids have the opportunity to think twice about trying to steal/harm from me or they can learn the hard way.

i will look at the stats you mentioned if you show me some of them. here is a varied assortment of think tanks and media outlets supporting my claims:

Lott Study: Concealed Carry Deters Crime

Carrying concealed weapon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NCPA - Concealed Carry Laws Reduce Crime

here's an analysis of the analysis of the analysis:
Does Concealed Carry Deter Crime?: The Lott/Mustard Controversy

here's one by an M.D. too:
Concealed Carry Prevents Violent Crime

lots of extreme-left studies really contort the facts to appear as though concealed carry is bad, but if you read close you'll catch it.








the bottom line is, armed citizens make victim seeking criminals less likely to succeed. history is a great resource for this topic.




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skunkushybrid

New Member
gun control laws only affect people who follow the laws. that's a fact. if a law abiding citizen becomes a criminal by carrying a gun there needs to be one hell of a revolution.

You keep saying this is a fact, yet you don't give a reason why. Of course, in one sense your wording implies the obvious. Are you talking about gun control laws, as in people who follow gun control laws? A little too obvious of a statement which is why I assumed you were encompassing criminals as a whole.


still a fact and still true. a law banning guns will have no affect on a criminal who wishes to carry out illegal acts on unarmed people with his illegally obtained gun.


The type of criminals you are referring to will not have access to a firearm in the first place. Once it goes underground the cost of a gun will rise, only criminals that already have money will be able to afford one. There is more than one type of criminal.

that guy was mentally disturbed, his creative writing professor sent his stuff to psychologists and recommended counseling. we'll see how this plays out in the media but this fact made him ineligible for purchasing a firearm under current (good) state and federal laws in the U.S.

He was obviously mentally disturbed... but he did use a registered firearm? It has been on our news that the laws in Virginia are very relaxed.

are you going to stand up here, electronically, and say that if the rednecks (and there are plenty) on that campus were allowed to have their guns on campus that none of them would have put an end to this thing before 33+ people were killed?

It's that easy to shoot somebody, is it? When someone is heavily armed, pointing a gun at you do you go for your gun? You're standing to the side of him, maybe he'll see you maybe he won't, do you go for your gun? You see, once you go for the gun you've made a decision, his gun is cocked and ready to go. He has no fear, he's dead already. people freeze, that's a fact of life. It's easy to stand here (electronically) and imagine yourself taking this guy down... unfortunately the reality of a situation like this is shock and fear.

at some level, psychopaths always function within society until they break. laws will not prevent this.

But the guy not having a gun will be a big help.

the law did nothing to prevent human malice, it won't, ever.

with this "stricter gun controls" of yours, you are talking about laws that must be enforced on a level that would cause a very bloody revolution SKH. you might think this is just tough talk or blabbering but i assure you that the government will not ever take guns from Americans. they started to try it in New Orleans just after the storm and it got put down quick. it was about to become very bloody but the government backed off. the media ran just shy of putting this out there but it did happen, google if you want.

they might have rocked you guys to sleep over there in Euro land but i'm drinking coffee and lots of it; so are many other liberty and freedom loving Americans. i'm watching the laws and i'm putting my money where my mouth is. it will not happen here, it can not happen here.




this was a reference to the big picture; criminals who want to use guns to help them break the law will not really care what is legislated.

yes, this was a psychological break. as you say, a means to an end. more repressive gun laws would not have helped. he could have created a bomb or something worse.

This guy did this spur of the moment like. It doesn't take much brain power to pick up a gun and start popping people.

people who enable accidents through such gross negligence should be prosecuted with existing laws, common sense.

just because another family lacks the decency and morality to teach their children that it's wrong to kill does not mean you have a basis to take my guns away. if anything, i need those guns so their kids have the opportunity to think twice about trying to steal/harm from me or they can learn the hard way.

i will look at the stats you mentioned if you show me some of them. here is a varied assortment of think tanks and media outlets supporting my claims:

Lott Study: Concealed Carry Deters Crime

Carrying concealed weapon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NCPA - Concealed Carry Laws Reduce Crime

here's an analysis of the analysis of the analysis:
Does Concealed Carry Deter Crime?: The Lott/Mustard Controversy

here's one by an M.D. too:
Concealed Carry Prevents Violent Crime

lots of extreme-left studies really contort the facts to appear as though concealed carry is bad, but if you read close you'll catch it.








the bottom line is, armed citizens make victim seeking criminals less likely to succeed. history is a great resource for this topic.




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Of course there are stats to support these claims. Entirely true, I don't doubt them for a second. One country having a nuclear bomb will deter a similar country from trying to intimidate them, or rob them. it is proven that when you equal the balance, you equal the balance (sorry, blueberry's getting to me). Yet, we need to get to the stage where we cannot kill each other merely by pulling a trigger... if we don't want to kill each other why have a gun? Even if you aim to wound it will have a good chance of killing.
 

matias2911

Well-Known Member
He bought the guns legally. The receipt for the glock was found in his bag.

Fact.

Well said, skunk. Yet americans will always love their gun ownership and defend it no matter what happens... This is what I don't understand...

Kids that like videogames and want to own a gun to shoot their classmates will have no trouble doing so in the USA/
fact.

Americans are so pragmatic, looking at the CAUSES of any incident is impossible, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
fact.

I agree 7X we should ALL be armed All the time, then anyone can defend himself anytime against that occasional ''crazy person'' who owns 20 rifles (like everyone else) and suddenly decides to use them. HAHAHA, sorry, I know i was differently educated than you ... but god allmighty,,, Paradox of paradoxes. i do not mean to offend.
 

ViRedd

New Member
The last estimate I saw stated that there are over 200 million privately owned firearms in the U.S. So ... for those of you who would outlaw the possession of firearms, how would you go about confiscating them? Hmmm ... visions of jack-booted, federally employed thugs at midnight comes to mind. Sig Heil! :roll:

Vi
 

battosai

Well-Known Member
He bought the guns legally. The receipt for the glock was found in his bag.

Fact.

Well said, skunk. Yet americans will always love their gun ownership and defend it no matter what happens... This is what I don't understand...

Kids that like videogames and want to own a gun to shoot their classmates will have no trouble doing so in the USA/
fact.

Americans are so pragmatic, looking at the CAUSES of any incident is impossible, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
fact.

I agree 7X we should ALL be armed All the time, then anyone can defend himself anytime against that occasional ''crazy person'' who owns 20 rifles (like everyone else) and suddenly decides to use them. HAHAHA, sorry, I know i was differently educated than you ... but god allmighty,,, Paradox of paradoxes. i do not mean to offend.
i would never make guns illegal, its our right to bare them.. kinda.

but damn i dont think people should be armed all the time. bc there will always be that idiot that wants to use his gun. i dont own a gun anymore, but the ones i have owned lived happily in my possession and were never used against or pointed at another person. i never felt the need....
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
Of course there are stats to support these claims. Entirely true, I don't doubt them for a second. One country having a nuclear bomb will deter a similar country from trying to intimidate them, or rob them. it is proven that when you equal the balance, you equal the balance (sorry, blueberry's getting to me). Yet, we need to get to the stage where we cannot kill each other merely by pulling a trigger... if we don't want to kill each other why have a gun? Even if you aim to wound it will have a good chance of killing.



it's not about making things equal, it's about having the means to overcome imbalance. the personal power to take action. that's why you find real gun owners at the range practicing, teaching their kids about safety, precision, discipline.


i don't want to kill people but i have lots of reasons for having guns...whatever this "stage" is that you hope for will come from individuals empowered with even more efficient means of killing others; that always coincides with scientific and engineering advancement.












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7xstall

Well-Known Member
He bought the guns legally. The receipt for the glock was found in his bag.

Fact.


how convenient, a receipt was in the bag with him..yeah right. let's see how this one plays out over the next few days.


foreign citizen, mental problems. both questions are on the papers, you can not lie on the papers and be legal. besides, a store can't sell a gun, any gun, to a non-citizen. Virginia requires a state and federal background check, this invalidates the claim that he bought the gun(s).



if a store actually did sell without running these mandatory checks they are in enormous trouble. so enormous that it's stupid (no offense, you have no idea how seriously this is taken here in our country) to think they'd skip the process for a weird dude who obviously isn't from "around here".












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7xstall

Well-Known Member
He bought the guns legally. The receipt for the glock was found in his bag.

Fact.

Well said, skunk. Yet americans will always love their gun ownership and defend it no matter what happens... This is what I don't understand...

Kids that like videogames and want to own a gun to shoot their classmates will have no trouble doing so in the USA/
fact.

Americans are so pragmatic, looking at the CAUSES of any incident is impossible, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
fact.

I agree 7X we should ALL be armed All the time, then anyone can defend himself anytime against that occasional ''crazy person'' who owns 20 rifles (like everyone else) and suddenly decides to use them. HAHAHA, sorry, I know i was differently educated than you ... but god allmighty,,, Paradox of paradoxes. i do not mean to offend.
how easy is it for kids who like videogames to get guns here? give me this "fact" of yours.



first, let me know how well you do on this little quiz:
Quiz - Virginia Gun Laws




yes, we Americans just don't get it. thank goodness there are so many more enlightened nations whose affairs are perfectly in order. the cause of the incident is obviously a piece of ceramic and plastic with 18 metal parts named Glock... how could i miss that... no more pragmatism for me, i see it all so clearly now. it's the alcohol's fault when a drunk kills people on the road, not his actions. it's the junk food makers' fault that someone eats themselves bedridden and dies, not their own gluttonous actions.. BS.


the rest of your post is childish and nonsensical but very emotionally wrought.









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silk

Well-Known Member
I went pro gun. People are the problem, not guns, but I would agree that more gun control would equal less deaths by guns.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
how convenient, a receipt was in the bag with him..yeah right. let's see how this one plays out over the next few days.


foreign citizen, mental problems. both questions are on the papers, you can not lie on the papers and be legal. besides, a store can't sell a gun, any gun, to a non-citizen. Virginia requires a state and federal background check, this invalidates the claim that he bought the gun(s).



if a store actually did sell without running these mandatory checks they are in enormous trouble. so enormous that it's stupid (no offense, you have no idea how seriously this is taken here in our country) to think they'd skip the process for a weird dude who obviously isn't from "around here".












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He was from 'around here'. He had mental problems, but not enough so that he couldn't legally buy a gun in Virginia. I will go back to my point that these crazies are frustrated individuals that are NOT everyday criminals. So-called normal members of society that snap one day and decide they are going to rape, torture or kill... maybe all three. Normal people, that can legally buy guns are the ones perpetrating these sort of crimes.

The only reason to own a gun is if you have the intention of killing somebody, what else are they for?
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
The last estimate I saw stated that there are over 200 million privately owned firearms in the U.S. So ... for those of you who would outlaw the possession of firearms, how would you go about confiscating them? Hmmm ... visions of jack-booted, federally employed thugs at midnight comes to mind. Sig Heil! :roll:

Vi
Quite simple Vi', as a 'law abiding' citizen you hand in your firearms where the government buy them off you. You will not have to bring paperwork, or anything to prove where the gun came from. All the government will be interested in is taking the gun and giving you some money.

That's how it worked over here. Several more amnesties were introduced over a period of months to give people time to part with their beloved firepower.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
i would never make guns illegal, its our right to bare them.. kinda.

but damn i dont think people should be armed all the time. bc there will always be that idiot that wants to use his gun. i dont own a gun anymore, but the ones i have owned lived happily in my possession and were never used against or pointed at another person. i never felt the need....

Never felt the need... imagine how much safer your streets would be if guns were not so easy to come by?

Our lunatics have to settle for knives or blunt instruments as they cannot run to their gun cupboard once they decide they've had enough of life and might as well take a few people with them.

The gun is a symbol of death... nothing more.
 

Hermes

Well-Known Member
i think what skunkushybrid is talking about is gun CONTROL not BANNING of firearms.

in my opinion, gun CONTROL is a must for any country. In Aus (and i think the UK is similar) you can own firarms, its just not as easy as walking into K-Mart and buying em. you have to be licensed, and need a permit to acquire.

however, i do beleive gun control in america now is near impossible as it is such a high population with so many firearms it would be such a difficult task it would create a huge black market for firearms, worsening violence.. but yeah thats my 2 cents
 

k-town

Well-Known Member
well america does run backround checks to make sure your not a felon or something of the sort I can't wait till I turn 21 so I can get a license to carry a pistol, oh yeah you have to be 18 to own a rifle and 21 to own handgun in america if that makes a difference I'm now curious to if the 9mm pistol this guy had was legal or a throwaway registered under someone elses name most likely stolen and re-sold on the street for dirt prices)
 
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