Gun Control

Stricter Gun Control In US

  • Yes, stricter control.

    Votes: 22 17.2%

  • No, we love our guns!

    Votes: 106 82.8%
  • Total voters
    128
Scubasteve420

Scubasteve420

Member
I don't own a gun but I strongly believe the right to bear arms. The ones using them the wrong way are not the registered law abiding citizens. Even if they are banned here the bad guys would still get them. I'm curious what the murder rate would do if there were suddenly no firearms in the US... My guess would be murders go up. Too many paranoid people.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Farooq87 said:
No what I was saying was, I do not not need a gun because I would rather solve disputes through rational conversation, not wild wild west mentality.

But the thing is we here in Canada do not have a high crime rate, cause we deal with the root causes of crime, our only major problem right now is gun violence stemmed from your POS lax laws. Down in America, its all about chauvinistic tough on crime, lock em up forever, fuck the poor, so maybe that is where all this fear is coming from.

If I was getting robbed, I do not know how I would act, I do have an alarm system so that probably would deter that robber in the first place.

Effeminate voice? lol says the pussy American afraid of big governemnt and one of the main reasons he has a big gun is because some girl told him he had a small penis back in highschool.
Click to expand...
Actually, I was told I was hung like a horse.

Though speaking of Canadian Crime Rates

Historically, the violent crime rate in Canada is lower than that of the U.S. and this continues to be the case. For example, in 2000 the United States' rate for robberies was 65 percent higher, its rate for aggravated assault was more than double and its murder rate was triple that of Canada. However, the rate of some property crime types is lower in the U.S. than in Canada. For example, in 2006, the rates of vehicle theft were 22% higher in Canada than in the US.[7] Since violent crimes are a smaller fraction of all crimes, the difference between the two countries is less than the homicide rate might make it seem, and the overall rates are generally close (see Crime in the United States).
Furthermore, in recent years, the gap in violent crime rates between the United States and Canada has narrowed due to a precipitous drop in the violent crime rate in the U.S. For example, while the aggravated assault rate declined for most of 1990s in the U.S. and was 324 per 100,000 in 2000, the aggravated assault rate in Canada remained relatively steady throughout and was 143 per 100,000 in 2000. In other areas, the U.S. had a faster decline. For instance, whereas the murder rate in Canada declined by 36% between 1991 and 2004, the U.S. murder rate declined by 44%. [8]
The homicide rate in Canada peaked in 1975 at 3.03 per 100,000 and has dropped since then; it reached lower peaks in 1985 (2.72) and 1991 (2.69). It reached a post 1970 low of 1.73 in 2003. The average murder rate between 1970 and 1976 was 2.52, between 1977 and 1983 it was 2.67, between 1984 and 1990 it was 2.41, between 1991 and 1997 it was 2.23 and between 1998 to 2004 it was 1.82.[9] The attempted homicide rate has fallen at a faster rate than the homicide rate.[10]
By comparison, the homicide rate in the U.S. reached 10.1 per 100,000 in 1974, peaked in 1980 at 10.7 and reached a lower peak in 1991 (10.5). The average murder rate between 1970 and 1976 was 9.4, between 1977 and 1983 it was 9.6, between 1984 and 1990 it was 9, between 1991 and 1997 it was 9.2 and between 1998 and 2004 it was 6.3. In 2004 the murder rate in the U.S. dipped below 6 per 100,00, for the first time since 1966. [8]
Approximately 70 percent of the total murders in the U.S. are committed with firearms, versus about 30 percent in Canada.[11]
Click to expand...

Apparently locking up these violent offenders has done something for decreasing the crime rate.

And arguing that it's all because of poverty is irrational, illogical and unprovable. More likely, it's a difference in cultures. The United States has a lot of stupidity routinely aired that glorifies violence, and has a higher population with higher densities than Canada.



And what would you do if some one ignored your alarm system and broke in any way?


Or if you found out that a violent murderer was loose in your neighborhood and then heard some one breaking into your house?



As far as your attempts to compare it to a Wild West Mentality, your portrayal of the West as being full of violence and crime isn't accurate. You really shouldn't believe everything you see in movies.
 
P

polar

Well-Known Member
:wall: Guns don't kill people... People kill people. As long as there are guns for BAD people to use, it should be LEGAL for GOOD guys to have them, too. Making guns illegal isn't going to make criminals give up their guns...
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
IMO there should be absolutely no restrictions on firearms whatsoever. In my world you could could own a fully automatic 50 caliber m2 machine gun if you really wanted one. And you could bring it to show and tell in grade school.
 
Farooq87

Farooq87

Active Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
Actually, I was told I was hung like a horse.

Though speaking of Canadian Crime Rates




Apparently locking up these violent offenders has done something for decreasing the crime rate.

And arguing that it's all because of poverty is irrational, illogical and unprovable. More likely, it's a difference in cultures. The United States has a lot of stupidity routinely aired that glorifies violence, and has a higher population with higher densities than Canada.



And what would you do if some one ignored your alarm system and broke in any way?


Or if you found out that a violent murderer was loose in your neighborhood and then heard some one breaking into your house?



As far as your attempts to compare it to a Wild West Mentality, your portrayal of the West as being full of violence and crime isn't accurate. You really shouldn't believe everything you see in movies.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to get started on wiki as a reliable source, but I will bring a more current census into this debate.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/090721/dq090721a-eng.htm

The trend in Canada is a increase in homicides, decline in other violent crimes, and decline in reported break ins and car thefts. Now your whole assertion that crime rates are high because people can't defend themselves is nothing but bullshit.

The main contributor to the increase in Homicide rate in Canada is the influx of illegal guns entering the border from Canada. Source : http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/firestar/video.html

That and prohibition on drugs which is fueling the drug wars in most urban cities.

Furthermore, according to a study by the Canadian Council on Social Development, demographic and social conditions have a profound effect on the crime rate. There is a correlation between poverty and crime. But everything is not black and white so obviously when dealing with crime, several issues need to be taken into account.

Lastly, I will not deal with stupid hypothetical situations. But I will say this, I agree with a person having a gun in their home, I wouldn't have one, I would prefer if we had world where we wouldn't need a gun in the home but such is not the world and if you must by all means. My main concern is lax gun laws. It is harmful to Canada, and Canadians.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Farooq87 said:
I'm not going to get started on wiki as a reliable source, but I will bring a more current census into this debate.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/090721/dq090721a-eng.htm

The trend in Canada is a increase in homicides, decline in other violent crimes, and decline in reported break ins and car thefts. Now your whole assertion that crime rates are high because people can't defend themselves is nothing but bullshit.

The main contributor to the increase in Homicide rate in Canada is the influx of illegal guns entering the border from Canada. Source : http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/firestar/video.html

That and prohibition on drugs which is fueling the drug wars in most urban cities.

Furthermore, according to a study by the Canadian Council on Social Development, demographic and social conditions have a profound effect on the crime rate. There is a correlation between poverty and crime. But everything is not black and white so obviously when dealing with crime, several issues need to be taken into account.

Lastly, I will not deal with stupid hypothetical situations. But I will say this, I agree with a person having a gun in their home, I wouldn't have one, I would prefer if we had world where we wouldn't need a gun in the home but such is not the world and if you must by all means. My main concern is lax gun laws. It is harmful to Canada, and Canadians.
Click to expand...
Criminals have guns and citizens don't, do you think tighter restrictions will actually change that basic fact?
 
Farooq87

Farooq87

Active Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
Criminals have guns and citizens don't, do you think tighter restrictions will actually change that basic fact?
Click to expand...
Yes, I do. Only problem with gun control, is if there is a place where you can easily obtain guns and have them smuggled from there. Other wise gun control works, in Canada at least. Guns are not like drugs, people do not get addicted to Guns. If you make guns hard to get, you will limit gun violence.

Oh by the way I like how you completely disregarded the points in my post. It's 1 am here so I going to head off to sleep.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Farooq87 said:
Defend yourself? What are you scared of? Why are Americans so keen on arming themselves from these potential threats, all these hypothetical situations. "Oh what if someone is robbing your house?" , just live your life, shit you could fucking get hit by a car, but does that mean you should never walk on the sidewalk. This defend yourself mentality is all bullshit, are you that chicken shit that you need to carry a gun everywhere you go?
Click to expand...
I support your right to your opinion and the right to freely express it. Don't worry YOU won't have to defend it, I will though. What would you do if that right were in jeopardy? How would you retain that right? Call an armed cop?

There are no sidewalks where I live...just people who will use force to make me pay for them. I don't carry a gun everywhere I go. Gun worship ain't my thing, if it's somebody elses why should I care as long as they harm nobody?

If someone is robbing my house, I'm concerned about shooting a kid and I MIGHT shoot them, if somebody is robbing my liberty I WILL (eventually) shoot them. What if the Jews being loaded on trains in NAZI Germany had offed a few enslavers? Think it might have made things go a little slower?
An armed citizenry is an obstacle to over reaching government. Don't believe me? Study your history, THOSE lessons are not hypothetical.

You're right, I could get hit by a car, using your logic shouldn't we get rid of cars?

You're not a gun person...cool. I respect you and you have nothing to fear from me. Would you want me to come to your aid if I witnessed somebody beating your brains out, raping a loved one or about to load you on a train bound for a death camp? Those trains aren't hypothetical...ever been in a box car
with a hundred other people? Neither had the people that got loaded on them. Talk to some survivors, see what they think.
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
timsatx1 said:
Home protection. Uh sport shooting. Uh paramilitary tactical situations. Lol. I just love my guns. They are assault weopons. But what if the assault comes to you in your homes with your kids ? Are you gonna wait for the police to save you and your family ? Or take action before the threat even reaches you? I vote for the latter. I'm not sayin to tote a gun around to your local wal mart to shop for dinner but a gun in the house is a smart decision.
Click to expand...
haha, fair enough, something tells me that the assault won't be visiting me though, so for me, a baseball bat next to the front door is mooooore than enough to stop even the dogiest of geezers :)
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Farooq87 said:
Yes, I do. Only problem with gun control, is if there is a place where you can easily obtain guns and have them smuggled from there. Other wise gun control works, in Canada at least. Guns are not like drugs, people do not get addicted to Guns. If you make guns hard to get, you will limit gun violence.

Oh by the way I like how you completely disregarded the points in my post. It's 1 am here so I going to head off to sleep.
Click to expand...
And amplify other forms of violence. Guns are tools, just like knives, and other items.

Blaming everything on guns is irrational, and illogical.
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
a gun is a tool with one purpose, to incapacitate or kill what you point it at. you can't make a wardolf salad with a gun.

Cemtex is a tool, but it's a tool with a specific purpose, and due to it's purpose, it is illegal.
 
The Warlord

The Warlord

Well-Known Member
tip top toker said:
a gun is a tool with one purpose, to incapacitate or kill what you point it at. you can't make a wardolf salad with a gun.

Cemtex is a tool, but it's a tool with a specific purpose, and due to it's purpose, it is illegal.
Click to expand...
Thats interesting. Kinda off topic but I can still remember when you could buy dynamite here in the USA with just a signature. Dad was always blowing stuff up doing demolition or removing stumps etc. Just goes to show haw much things have changed in the last 25 years or so. Walk in and buy some dynamite, thats a trip but it's how it was. Terrorism? whats that?
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
A gun is a tool with more than just the purpose of killing, Guns when brandished make a statement that you are not someone to be fucked with, its a deterrent just as much as it is an instrument of death. Guns are a tool of survival, they are primarily used to hunt and kill for food, they are used for self defense and a deterrent to criminals. The right to own them and keep them is not to be infringed, the government has no constitutional power to take them.
 
TreesOfLife

TreesOfLife

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
A gun is a tool with more than just the purpose of killing, Guns when brandished make a statement that you are not someone to be fucked with, its a deterrent just as much as it is an instrument of death. Guns are a tool of survival, they are primarily used to hunt and kill for food, they are used for self defense and a deterrent to criminals. The right to own them and keep them is not to be infringed, the government has no constitutional power to take them.
Click to expand...
Don't forget sport shooting. Blasting paper bad guys to hell is relaxing. :joint::hump:
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
tip top toker said:
meh, using a gun as a deterrant is hardly not in line with being designed to kill someone etc. you point it at someone, they don't think "oh shit he's a hard due i'll walk off" they think that you're gonna take your gun and shoot them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8168465.stm

sigh
Click to expand...
If they're not threatening you in your home, or with your own death, permanent disability, or great financial loss why would you point a gun at them.

If some one has a gun pointed at you, no amount of police "protection" will be able to help you. The only thing that can help you is being able to either talk them out of doing something stupid, or being able to kill them first.

Force on Force.

To deprive people of their right to own fire arms goes directly against the Constitution of the United States of America, and against the Common Law of the United States, which is based off of English Common Law, which preserves the right of the citizen to defend themselves against those that would do them harm.

Perhaps, the British and Canadians should reflect upon the freedoms they have given up in their vain attempts to be "safer."

What is more ironic is the catastrophic failure that the Canadians "Bill of Rights" was.
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
firstly, your constitution, like the bible, is a piece of paper. it does not mean it is how things work, it could be wrong..... it's a piece of paper

secondly, i havn't given up any rights, i don't want a gun, few people in the UK want guns, it's a stupid move as my link showed, dumb shit happens. and a "vain" attemp to be safer, how do you figure that. i am safer. end of. safer than you'll ever feel. would you walk through a dark park at 3am without a weapon on you? i ceratinly would, do, and will continue to do so. i've never felt unsafe out in the public in my life. how many of you americans with your guns can say that. if you feel the need to bare a gun while out for a walk, then your neighbourhood is fucked up. as simple as that.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
tip top toker said:
firstly, your constitution, like the bible, is a piece of paper. it does not mean it is how things work, it could be wrong..... it's a piece of paper

secondly, i havn't given up any rights, i don't want a gun, few people in the UK want guns, it's a stupid move as my link showed, dumb shit happens. and a "vain" attemp to be safer, how do you figure that. i am safer. end of. safer than you'll ever feel. would you walk through a dark park at 3am without a weapon on you? i ceratinly would, do, and will continue to do so. i've never felt unsafe out in the public in my life. how many of you americans with your guns can say that. if you feel the need to bare a gun while out for a walk, then your neighbourhood is fucked up. as simple as that.
Click to expand...
there is a few things i would like to say to you that i feel are so important, im putting out my blunt to tell you

First of all, ill start off with a quick saying

"when you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns"

this basically means if guns are illegal, your average law abiding person will be unarmed

however

a mugger / rapist / murderer / carjacker / robber is already breaking the law, so why would they have to worry about gun laws?

my second point is this,

for a minute lets go WAYYY back, before gunpowder was discovered

what was the armament of choice? the sword

yes the mighty sword, romantic yet deadly

Free men carried swords to defend themselves with

if you were not free (i.e. slaves, surfs, peasants) you were not permitted to carry a sword, leaving you pretty much at the mercy of anyone

the gun = the modern day sword

my third point - if everyone had a gun strapped to their hip with a holster (clearly visible) crime rates would DRASTICALLY decrese

for some of you that doesnt make sense, but lets knock this down here

whats the first thing you think when you find out some one has a gun

i dont know about you but MY and anyone i have asked this question, the first thoughs are "Damn that guy has a gun i better not fuck with him"

now imagine if this thought came into your head everytime you looked at some one....

It makes a robber/rapist/carjacker ect very, very reluctant to continue what they do when they know there is a possiblity there victim could be armed...a possibility the attacker could get killed...

to further prove this one point, here is a video that should explain in more easier to understand ways

its 2:36 long, so its short, just watch it

the third point im going to make is a quote from Andrew Jackson

"The strongest defense for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves from tyranny in government"


Im anxious to read your response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngsKzdKNAmo
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
Keenly said:
there is a few things i would like to say to you that i feel are so important, im putting out my blunt to tell you

First of all, ill start off with a quick saying

"when you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns"

this basically means if guns are illegal, your average law abiding person will be unarmed

however

a mugger / rapist / murderer / carjacker / robber is already breaking the law, so why would they have to worry about gun laws?

my second point is this,

for a minute lets go WAYYY back, before gunpowder was discovered

what was the armament of choice? the sword

yes the mighty sword, romantic yet deadly

Free men carried swords to defend themselves with

if you were not free (i.e. slaves, surfs, peasants) you were not permitted to carry a sword, leaving you pretty much at the mercy of anyone

the gun = the modern day sword

my third point - if everyone had a gun strapped to their hip with a holster (clearly visible) crime rates would DRASTICALLY decrese

for some of you that doesnt make sense, but lets knock this down here

whats the first thing you think when you find out some one has a gun

i dont know about you but MY and anyone i have asked this question, the first thoughs are "Damn that guy has a gun i better not fuck with him"

now imagine if this thought came into your head everytime you looked at some one....

It makes a robber/rapist/carjacker ect very, very reluctant to continue what they do when they know there is a possiblity there victim could be armed...a possibility the attacker could get killed...

to further prove this one point, here is a video that should explain in more easier to understand ways

its 2:36 long, so its short, just watch it

the third point im going to make is a quote from Andrew Jackson

"The strongest defense for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves from tyranny in government"


Im anxious to read your response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngsKzdKNAmo
Click to expand...
i can see your point but i'm looking it from an "i enjoy life" kind of mentality. not sure where to start but i'll try :D

if someone is breaking the law, it's not on or off, black or white, there is still a sliding scale, you can rob someone, that's illegal sure, but doesn't mean you'll kill em as well, that's a whole new level that you're going into.

so the sword, soenoething i've brought up previously, you can't accidentally chop someone's head off with a sword, or at least it's pretty hard to do, but you can top someone with a pistol easier than pie, one tiny slip and your foe is dead, your brother has a bullet in his belly, you name it. not to mention, if you have a sword, yo've got to physically get upto the other guy, make a whole bunch of decisions and carry out the action. you're being a man, you've got to think about it, weigh in your options. with guns, you can get em from a mile away if you want. there is no pride in that, no justification, it's too easy to kill someone wihtout a care in the world.

as to everyone toting, sure, you're probably right in a way, it might help crime ratees, but while we're at it, why don't we set up some concentration camps, get some SS going around, that kind of stuff, as would you feel happy clappy living in a town were noone did anything as everyone could turn around and kill you. life would be completely shit. just an example of mine. me and a mate got stopped and reported to the police because we'd trespassed onto a field (wasn't even his field, he was an anal whore!) and he was livid that he found us smoking a reef, like really erally angry. point being that not everyone is stable, everyone see's things differently. if he'd been carrying a gun and it was legal etc, he'd probably have drawn it on us, maybe shot us, for a difference of opinion on the matter of smoking dope. so for you, maybe you light up a reef in a park, there's a lot, a LOT of anti-pot guys, so then they might think let's shoot him for breaking the law.

i'm as hungover as a MOTHERFUCKEKRKERKER, so i'm having issues getting this coherent and understandable, but basically life would be no fun, everything and anything would then become about intimidation. mistakes aren't learnt, you jsut find a gun in your face to tell you you're wrong, that's not how it works imo.

as to the vid, i coul;dn't care about that, not in that it's irrelevant to the topic, ust that i'm in the UK, so it's just not like that really. if i hear my front door getting smashed in, to be on the flip side, i'm not sat here thinking i'm gonna die he'll have a gun where's mine. i feel safe in the knowledge that the guy most likely wont have a gun, and i'll take to him with a bat or such.



i've said it once and i'll say it a thousand times, it's a vicious circle, if you've got guns so readily available for the bad guys, of course the good guys need to up the ante and make things fair.so understandably your need for guns is greater than ours.

he's got a gun, so you need a gun, but he now knows that you've got a gun in the draw, so now he needs a gun. i'm not here trying to change anything, it wouldn't work, couldn't work, and would be ineffective etc, it's just that guns have no place in the UK society, and we're perfectly happy with it, we don't see this requirement and necessity to bear arms, simply because well, bare arms against what? it's completely the other way around for you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top