Having a hell of a time with co2

snoeman032

snoeman032

Well-Known Member
OK I attempted to run CO2 in a 5 x 5 tent and it’s not working out too well so far looking for some suggestions. I have a in-line fan pulling air from outside the tent inside the tent and when it’s on my CO2 was just leaking out of the tent faster than I can put it in. When I turn them in line fan off the temp gets about 93°.
 
snoeman032

snoeman032

Well-Known Member
TintEastwood said:
Sealed room with AC is the best way. Rarely can folks run co2 in a vented grow due to unfavorable heat and/or rh issues.
Click to expand...
Yea my controller is kicking on about every 5 minutes. My 20 pound tank would probably run out pretty fast like that. It kicks on about every five minutes and runs for about two minutes and cut back off
 
Nizza

Nizza

Well-Known Member
think about this.. is it worth it to run that tank like this?

what kind of lights, and grow medium
you can put the lights on a fan loop all seperate
then use A/c like tint said and at night shut off the co2 and add fresh air
 
TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
Putting your vent exhaust fan on a cycle timer could help. On 15 minutes off 15 minutes....or whatever you can manage. Would help reduce waste in current situation.
 
snoeman032

snoeman032

Well-Known Member
Nizza said:
think about this.. is it worth it to run that tank like this?

what kind of lights, and grow medium
you can put the lights on a fan loop all seperate
then use A/c like tint said and at night shut off the co2 and add fresh air
Click to expand...
I’m using a 600w QB, promix medium. I thought about getting something to seal my door off and just making the whole room a grow room I’m just worried about the CO2 leaking off into my house I have the controller set an 1000 ppm if it wasn’t leaking so bad I’d raise it to 12. I’m kinda confused on what you was suggesting to do
 
Nizza

Nizza

Well-Known Member
you have to add a/c for when the lights are on to make it so you arent wasting the CO2 to make your chamber a sealed room
then on lights off have a fan come on for fresh air and shut off the co2, making it an unsealed room

to have your ac keep up with the heat you may have to do some other things such as putting the lights on their own air loop, seperate from the air inside the tent

with co2 though u can run 80-90 deg temps
 
snoeman032

snoeman032

Well-Known Member
Nizza said:
you have to add a/c for when the lights are on to make it so you arent wasting the CO2 to make your chamber a sealed room
then on lights off have a fan come on for fresh air and shut off the co2, making it an unsealed room

to have your ac keep up with the heat you may have to do some other things such as putting the lights on their own air loop, seperate from the air inside the tent

with co2 though u can run 80-90 deg temps
Click to expand...
Ok cool, I noticed with coz the humidity is very high so I added a dehumidifier is that ok?
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
snoeman032 said:
Ok cool, I noticed with coz the humidity is very high so I added a dehumidifier is that ok?
Click to expand...
When gassing:
PPM at 1200 (Don't bother with setting it higher. You aren't going to be able to have enough light energy to effectively use 1500ppm)
Temps with gas on should run 91 F
RH should be at around 76%

This is how you effectively use Co2 in growing...

To be simple? Follow the VPD chart values for the temps and RH in your space. AND, use an environmental controller

VPD CHART



ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROLLER

https://4hydroponics.com/autopilot-digital-environmental-controller.html

Good luck
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Sounds like a lot of expense and hassle for a 5 x 5 tent. Is the gain worth it? I don't think I would bother with Co2 with your current setup.
Click to expand...
This does bring up a real point.

On my scale. I don't bother, as it doesn't balance. The return is not worth the cost

In tent's or on an average grower personal grow. If done properly, it can be a nice thing to play with.....Plenty of learning in that curve....

It's up to you OP, to figure out if it's worth your time and expense. It will not make your result any better, as far as quality (potency/flavor) goes. It may increase yield some.


Hints:
Get away from the grow store gas bottles. Go to a gas dealer and get a 50 or 75 lb tank. Much cheaper, and lasts longer...
Be sure you have enough light energy being delivered for the ppm you deliver..... maybe 7500 to 10K lumen's per square foot.....
I don't care what any guide may tell you. 1500ppm is not going to be worth the cost to make that amount of gas actually work properly.

At 800 ppm your recovering about half that 30% of plant growth lost to natural botanical factors.
For every increase in gas, you must increase light power to match, and the increase will make less and less return the more you add.
EXAMPLE: adding 400 more ppm to that 800... gets you only about 25% or so, of that first increase. Increase more and the return gets less and less.
You pretty much bottom out at 1300ppm. Trying to run more? You won't add enough light energy to make it worth your time or money. So anything above 1300 ppm? Is simply wasting gas.

If that space isn't sealed. Your wasting money and time.
ALWAYS stop gassing around 2 weeks from the harvest. Co2 delays proper ripening!
 
snoeman032

snoeman032

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
This does bring up a real point.

On my scale. I don't bother, as it doesn't balance. The return is not worth the cost

In tent's or on an average grower personal grow. If done properly, it can be a nice thing to play with.....Plenty of learning in that curve....

It's up to you OP, to figure out if it's worth your time and expense. It will not make your result any better, as far as quality (potency/flavor) goes. It may increase yield some.


Hints:
Get away from the grow store gas bottles. Go to a gas dealer and get a 50 or 75 lb tank. Much cheaper, and lasts longer...
Be sure you have enough light energy being delivered for the ppm you deliver..... maybe 7500 to 10K lumen's per square foot.....
I don't care what any guide may tell you. 1500ppm is not going to be worth the cost to make that amount of gas actually work properly.

At 800 ppm your recovering about half that 30% of plant growth lost to natural botanical factors.
For every increase in gas, you must increase light power to match, and the increase will make less and less return the more you add.
EXAMPLE: adding 400 more ppm to that 800... gets you only about 25% or so, of that first increase. Increase more and the return gets less and less.
You pretty much bottom out at 1300ppm. Trying to run more? You won't add enough light energy to make it worth your time or money. So anything above 1300 ppm? Is simply wasting gas.

If that space isn't sealed. Your wasting money and time.
ALWAYS stop gassing around 2 weeks from the harvest. Co2 delays proper ripening!
Click to expand...
Ok thank you very much! That helps I have my auto pilot controller set to1250 ppm. I have a 600w QB so I don’t know if what I’m doing is worth it. I’m gonna run it for 6 weeks and turn it off see if I can tell any difference in my crop. I heard the case makes the flower more dense too Is this true? One other thing are you saying I want to get my temps up to 91° In order to help use up the CO2? Because my temps are probably in the low 80s
 
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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
snoeman032 said:
Ok thank you very much! That helps I have my auto pilot controller set to1250 ppm. I have a 600w QB so I don’t know if what I’m doing is worth it. I’m gonna run it for 6 weeks and turn it off see if I can tell any difference in my crop. I heard the case makes the flower more dense too Is this true? One other thing are you saying I want to get my temps up to 91° In order to help use up the CO2? Because my temps are probably in the low 80s
Click to expand...
The thing is. "How many lumen's does that LED deliver per sqft." Work it out from there, as to gas ppm delivery and effectiveness.
Yeah, run the temp up a bit. It shouldn't be hard in a tent...

My,isolation and breeding area, runs tents. back when I was playing with gas. We did a bunch of work in/with the tent's.
With an environmental controller. It was "set it and forget it." You set the ceiling temp and the ceiling RH. The set point is reached. The gas is shut off, cooling and exhaust systems come on, cool and reduce RH and hit a stop point. The gas is turned back on and the whole thing repeats...

As far as density goes. It will be along strain dependent limits. Some do well, some not as well at increasing it.

There is something called the "Light saturation point"... This happens to all C3 plants. As the natural light of day gets to a level. The plant then begins to change to protect it's self. It does so on a cellular level (peptides change). This happens earlier in the day then most people think (or understand for that matter). At night, the plant changes back again to receive the full benefit of the light until, it hits that point again.

This reduces the plants growth for the day by about 30%.....Using Co2 gas. Changes how the plant is effected by the intense light. It in effect "delay's" or even "eliminates" the change from the light saturation point.

This is the 30% your trying to "recover" by gassing. So in truth, your not "increasing" plant growth. Your only "recovering" what is lost growth "potential" from natural plant growth rhythms.

Peace on
 
snoeman032

snoeman032

Well-Known Member
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Dr. Who said:
The thing is. "How many lumen's does that LED deliver per sqft." Work it out from there, as to gas ppm delivery and effectiveness.
Yeah, run the temp up a bit. It shouldn't be hard in a tent...

My,isolation and breeding area, runs tents. back when I was playing with gas. We did a bunch of work in/with the tent's.
With an environmental controller. It was "set it and forget it." You set the ceiling temp and the ceiling RH. The set point is reached. The gas is shut off, cooling and exhaust systems come on, cool and reduce RH and hit a stop point. The gas is turned back on and the whole thing repeats...

As far as density goes. It will be along strain dependent limits. Some do well, some not as well at increasing it.

There is something called the "Light saturation point"... This happens to all C3 plants. As the natural light of day gets to a level. The plant then begins to change to protect it's self. It does so on a cellular level (peptides change). This happens earlier in the day then most people think (or understand for that matter). At night, the plant changes back again to receive the full benefit of the light until, it hits that point again.

This reduces the plants growth for the day by about 30%.....Using Co2 gas. Changes how the plant is effected by the intense light. It in effect "delay's" or even "eliminates" the change from the light saturation point.

This is the 30% your trying to "recover" by gassing. So in truth, your not "increasing" plant growth. Your only "recovering" what is lost growth "potential" from natural plant growth rhythms.

Peace on
Click to expand...
Maybe you can help me with some math. This is the specs on the light I have. How much gas should I be pushing these plants with this light? I turned off my intake fan and it’s 92° in there I have seen it as high as 95°. I have my controller set at 1250 center ppm and 400 zone ppm.
 
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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
snoeman032 said:
View attachment 4369402 View attachment 4369385 View attachment 4369386 View attachment 4369385 View attachment 4369386 View attachment 4369387 View attachment 4369385 View attachment 4369386
Maybe you can help me with some math. This is the specs on the light I have. How much gas should I be pushing these plants with this light? I turned off my intake fan and it’s 92° in there I have seen it as high as 95°. I have my controller set at 1250 center ppm and 400 zone ppm.
Click to expand...
I have no idea. Not an LED man. Try a light meter.

Good gas controller. Now for an environmental controller.....
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
as long as you can run corresponding RH on the VPD chart......high as you get will be ok.

If the temps are high and the RH is too low. Reduce the heat to your RH value on the chart.
 
snoeman032

snoeman032

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
as long as you can run corresponding RH on the VPD chart......high as you get will be ok.

If the temps are high and the RH is too low. Reduce the heat to your RH value on the chart.
Click to expand...
So as long as my RH is acceptable I can run 100° If I want too?
 
A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
No point running CO2 unless you have the light which you do but also can provide the environment which you can't.

I run a sealed room and run 600ppm for my veg first 2-3 weeks then 800ppm for my last week of veg. Then flower I bump to 1200ppm and my last 2 weeks I drop it back down to 600 ppm.

Also when running VPD do yourself a favor and download a calculator that takes leaf temps into account don't just go by the online charts since most are using a 2f difference on leaf to air temp and with led it will be more like 5-8f difference.

IMO there is no point running CO2 unless you have a sealed room that you have complete control over the environment.
 
A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
snoeman032 said:
View attachment 4369402 View attachment 4369385 View attachment 4369386 View attachment 4369385 View attachment 4369386 View attachment 4369387 View attachment 4369385 View attachment 4369386
Maybe you can help me with some math. This is the specs on the light I have. How much gas should I be pushing these plants with this light? I turned off my intake fan and it’s 92° in there I have seen it as high as 95°. I have my controller set at 1250 center ppm and 400 zone ppm.
Click to expand...
I use the same controller. I used a 200ppm deadband.

I run an hlg 600 and grow in hydro so I may get a bit faster growth and your veg times may be different but this is what I do

For light i use a light meter app but a lumen meter is cheap.

I start clones about 10000 lumen and bump up 7500-10000 lumen a week. Ending at 40000-50000 lumen veg. Then flower I run about 75000-80000 lumen. This is about as hard as I can push them for the strain I'm growing
 
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