HELP! Y is everyone dying?

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Shaggy78

Active Member
30 days old. Everything was beautiful till yesterday.
Soil/coco/perlite mix 45/35/20. This was their second feed I'm using General Hydroponics Cal Mag micro and grow. very small amount. Just got a ph meter. Pretty sure its a ph issue. Will everyone die?. I cant deal with it till tomorrow so im scared i killed everything. I don't know if you can see by the pics but the plant s are so yellow
 

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halfbreed421

Well-Known Member
I think you could use more perlite in the soil because the drooping down of the leaves makes me think the roots are drowning and need more oxygen. Usually a minimum of 30% perlite, but the pots surrounding your pot you can see a lot more of it on top so maybe just that one didnt get enough. also yellowing can mean lack of nitrogen so you can probably up your nutrients. Coco absorbs nutrients especially calcium so try upping your nutes a little, the plants big enough for at least 50% of the "recommended" size dose
 
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Shaggy78

Active Member
Could the lack of nutrients make them droop like that too? All my plants are droopy I just showed pictures of the worst. I'm wondering since I haven't been able to really pH my water if I have lock out anyway
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
Soil and Coco doesn't do well together, I've used that before, too, but neither does this feel like a real earth if in hand, nor is the abilty to be watered daily retained. Coco's structure retains alot of air, but the fine grade soil dust sits right into it.
Soil pH usually aims for ~6.5, can go more acidic if peat-based and the mineralic buffer runs out, Coco pH usually ~5.8, like hydro.

Not saying you can't pull it off but you'll get perhaps better results by either doing Coco/Perlit 50/50 mineralically or Soil/Perlit 70/30 preferably organically.
The first can be watered frequently while the latter requires a wet'n'dry cycle.

Coco's binds some minerals so you may want to actually increase your CalMag a bit, around 0.3 EC should be fine.

Plants look overwatered currently, just wait and see if this will sort itself out from alone...
 
The Gram Reaper

The Gram Reaper

Well-Known Member
Coco plants droop a little and look drowned when you give them straight water. Not sure why it hasn't been an issue for you until now, if the coco is the issue.

Maybe you are watering too frequently?
 
The Gram Reaper

The Gram Reaper

Well-Known Member
Shaggy78 said:
Could the lack of nutrients make them droop like that too? All my plants are droopy I just showed pictures of the worst. I'm wondering since I haven't been able to really pH my water if I have lock out anyway
Click to expand...
I would also go with Halfbreed/Kassiopeija on it being a cal/mag issue also.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
The Gram Reaper said:
Maybe you are watering too frequently?
Click to expand...
yeah typically "overwatering" is "too frequently" or "too soon". I mean, every water that is too much in a single fertigation does simply run out of the pot, and it's highly unlikely that, with that perlite in there, the medium would lack airation.

I just looked at the last pic and it seems like the new growth comes out too bright, and if the 45% isn't supersharp tomatosoil (or anything comparable) then these are hungry as well. I'd increase feeds using a balanced full veg solution with EC of ~1.5mS and then go from there. (RO + CalMag +0.4 then NPK up to 1.5 and pH to somewhere 6-6.5)

BTW if you have these pots so close together how do you actually raise them to check when they are light (to water again)?
 
The Gram Reaper

The Gram Reaper

Well-Known Member
Shaggy78 said:
30 days old. Everything was beautiful till yesterday.
Soil/coco/perlite mix 45/35/20. This was their second feed I'm using General Hydroponics Cal Mag micro and grow. very small amount. Just got a ph meter. Pretty sure its a ph issue. Will everyone die?. I cant deal with it till tomorrow so im scared i killed everything. I don't know if you can see by the pics but the plant s are so yellow
Click to expand...
Is that water being sprayed on them in the second pic or are my eyes playing tricks?
 
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Shaggy78

Active Member
Kassiopeija said:
yeah typically "overwatering" is "too frequently" or "too soon". I mean, every water that is too much in a single fertigation does simply run out of the pot, and it's highly unlikely that, with that perlite in there, the medium would lack airation.

I just looked at the last pic and it seems like the new growth comes out too bright, and if the 45% isn't supersharp tomatosoil (or anything comparable) then these are hungry as well. I'd increase feeds using a balanced full veg solution with EC of ~1.5mS and then go from there. (RO + CalMag +0.4 then NPK up to 1.5 and pH to somewhere 6-6.5)

BTW if you have these pots so close together how do you actually raise them to check when they are light (to water again)?
Click to expand...
I just pull out a column of 4 and then I'm in the middle of the pile so it allows me to work from either side. It's not a watering issue I was pretty sure it was a Cal Mag issue myself or a pH issue
 
MickFoster

MickFoster

Well-Known Member
Big mistake using coco and soil together.......two different requirements for feeding, watering frequency and pH. One is soil the other is drain to waste hydroponics.
If you wanted to amend your soil with something........peat moss would have been a better choice.

Good luck.
 
The Gram Reaper

The Gram Reaper

Well-Known Member
Shaggy78 said:
I just woke up to this. Heavy leaf tacoing Pot is fairly light. Moisture seems right in the pot. Why are they all dying? This is one of my non yellow plants
Click to expand...
Coco works best with a daily feeding, soil works best every few days. That is going to be a tough one to figure out. I would let them dry out more then follow Kassio's advice.

I know it looks like tacoing from nutrient excess, but my tops do that in coco when I have them on too frequent of feedings. The fan leaves will flop in different directions. Just had to correct this with my newest table, I can show you a pic later when the light comes on.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
ComfortCreator said:
unless you panic and kill them!
Click to expand...
yeah one thing to keep in mind is to change too many variables in a too short of a time can also become a huge stress factor, for example removing a pot from its place, then putting it back (but at another angle towards the lamp) then the plant has to adjust again.

Another thing is, it's better to have small pots on young plants, then do multiple uppots. There've been scientifically studies and they proove, that this way an indoor rootsystem develops better.

Also, less-optimal circumstances can be overcome by a plant's internal control system quicker, plus mismatches can become apparent/visible quicker, and can be dealt with quicker (by transplanting sooner to another medium, or doing bottle-feeds....)

Here's an example of how a plant can influence the pH of the rootzone; in this case the form of nitrogen makes the difference:

Wurzel pH.jpg
^^ left is ammonia, right nitrate ^^
(from "Plant Nutrition" by Prof. Dr. Schubert)

pH-stable forms of N-feeds usually contain both, or are based on Urea, which breaks down into both

2 years ago I did some grows based on BB Allmix (which is 30% perlite, 10% worm castings, 5% Pre-Mix and 55% peat) and mixed that with 30% of their pre-charged cocos (btw is the Coco you use pre-charged/pre-buffered or not?). It worked well, I treated it like soil, and watered every 3-4 days 4-5l per 14l pot, but in an organic grow the microbes do have a say plus I didn't pH down, as the BB ferts are acidic anyway.

Aynway, you have alot of pots over there :D so you can try to treat them a bit differently (time of watering, strength of EC, or pH in) and then see, what works best. I guess once the plants get bigger and have an adequate root system established the problem may sort itself out from alone...
 
S

Shaggy78

Active Member
Kassiopeija said:
yeah typically "overwatering" is "too frequently" or "too soon". I mean, every water that is too much in a single fertigation does simply run out of the pot, and it's highly unlikely that, with that perlite in there, the medium would lack airation.

I just looked at the last pic and it seems like the new growth comes out too bright, and if the 45% isn't supersharp tomatosoil (or anything comparable) then these are hungry as well. I'd increase feeds using a balanced full veg solution with EC of ~1.5mS and then go from there. (RO + CalMag +0.4 then NPK up to 1.5 and pH to somewhere 6-6.5)

BTW if you have these pots so close together how do you actually raise them to check when they are light (to water again)?
Click to expand...
Kassiopeija said:
yeah one thing to keep in mind is to change too many variables in a too short of a time can also become a huge stress factor, for example removing a pot from its place, then putting it back (but at another angle towards the lamp) then the plant has to adjust again.

Another thing is, it's better to have small pots on young plants, then do multiple uppots. There've been scientifically studies and they proove, that this way an indoor rootsystem develops better.

Also, less-optimal circumstances can be overcome by a plant's internal control system quicker, plus mismatches can become apparent/visible quicker, and can be dealt with quicker (by transplanting sooner to another medium, or doing bottle-feeds....)

Here's an example of how a plant can influence the pH of the rootzone; in this case the form of nitrogen makes the difference:

View attachment 4703697
^^ left is ammonia, right nitrate ^^
(from "Plant Nutrition" by Prof. Dr. Schubert)

pH-stable forms of N-feeds usually contain both, or are based on Urea, which breaks down into both

2 years ago I did some grows based on BB Allmix (which is 30% perlite, 10% worm castings, 5% Pre-Mix and 55% peat) and mixed that with 30% of their pre-charged cocos (btw is the Coco you use pre-charged/pre-buffered or not?). It worked well, I treated it like soil, and watered every 3-4 days 4-5l per 14l pot, but in an organic grow the microbes do have a say plus I didn't pH down, as the BB ferts are acidic anyway.

Aynway, you have alot of pots over there :D so you can try to treat them a bit differently (time of watering, strength of EC, or pH in) and then see, what works best. I guess once the plants get bigger and have an adequate root system established the problem may sort itself out from alone...
Click to expand...
I started them in silo cups then move them to three and a half gallon pots then I'll move to 5 gallon pots before I flower. I had also heard that when you hand water and rotate your plants at allows for the plant to not have blackout spots from the light. I don't know I'm just freaking out. I fed them this morning and pH the water to 6.0. I guess now I just leave them alone for the rest of the day and see what happens?
 
S

Shaggy78

Active Member
Kassiopeija said:
yeah one thing to keep in mind is to change too many variables in a too short of a time can also become a huge stress factor, for example removing a pot from its place, then putting it back (but at another angle towards the lamp) then the plant has to adjust again.

Another thing is, it's better to have small pots on young plants, then do multiple uppots. There've been scientifically studies and they proove, that this way an indoor rootsystem develops better.

Also, less-optimal circumstances can be overcome by a plant's internal control system quicker, plus mismatches can become apparent/visible quicker, and can be dealt with quicker (by transplanting sooner to another medium, or doing bottle-feeds....)

Here's an example of how a plant can influence the pH of the rootzone; in this case the form of nitrogen makes the difference:

View attachment 4703697
^^ left is ammonia, right nitrate ^^
(from "Plant Nutrition" by Prof. Dr. Schubert)

pH-stable forms of N-feeds usually contain both, or are based on Urea, which breaks down into both

2 years ago I did some grows based on BB Allmix (which is 30% perlite, 10% worm castings, 5% Pre-Mix and 55% peat) and mixed that with 30% of their pre-charged cocos (btw is the Coco you use pre-charged/pre-buffered or not?). It worked well, I treated it like soil, and watered every 3-4 days 4-5l per 14l pot, but in an organic grow the microbes do have a say plus I didn't pH down, as the BB ferts are acidic anyway.

Aynway, you have alot of pots over there :D so you can try to treat them a bit differently (time of watering, strength of EC, or pH in) and then see, what works best. I guess once the plants get bigger and have an adequate root system established the problem may sort itself out from alone...
Click to expand...
Also the Coco I used was Coco Canna and the soil I use was Happy Frog
 
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