Hey Canndo, straw poo tek?

testtime

Well-Known Member
I know you've detailed what you do before, but I'm too lazy to find it.

what I got:

Many jars of poo loving fungus, typically spawned to coir.

What I just picked up:

A bale of straw, a sack of dehydrated cow manure, a sack of oyster shells.

You wanna tell me what to do with it and if I need anything else?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
I know you've detailed what you do before, but I'm too lazy to find it.

what I got:

Many jars of poo loving fungus, typically spawned to coir.

What I just picked up:

A bale of straw, a sack of dehydrated cow manure, a sack of oyster shells.

You wanna tell me what to do with it and if I need anything else?

Put the manure in your backyard - for your tomatoes, stick with the straw - it's easier and cleaner.
 

Skuxx

Well-Known Member
make sure you use a good amount of spawn. straw contams easy. not for beginners as I learned.
 

mojoganjaman

Well-Known Member
chop your straw up into 3" os less....dump it in a pot and add 1/2 cup of hydrated lime and enough water to cover it...I use a pillow case...put some weight on the pillow case to submerge the straw/shit...bring to 170-180F and leave it for 2 hrs...strain and drain...when cool add spawn...and I'd go with the shit added into the straw...cubes love shit!!!
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
chop your straw up into 3" os less....dump it in a pot and add 1/2 cup of hydrated lime and enough water to cover it...I use a pillow case...put some weight on the pillow case to submerge the straw/shit...bring to 170-180F and leave it for 2 hrs...strain and drain...when cool add spawn...and I'd go with the shit added into the straw...cubes love shit!!!

how many muchrooms have you actually grown?

if i where to use straw, i am, i would cut as small as possible, less than inch if you so inclined, i would mix it 50/50 with verm and maybe some wormcastings and gypsum. pasteurization is all that is needed so boiling water (212 degrees) for about 45 min is preferable and sterile enough.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
I would mix it with nothing, straw is self moisture correcting. Also, don't BOIL! you will kill the beneficial microbes that give you that two week window - no higher than 180 degrees, no loser than 160. And the finer the straw the better. I have found that you need nothing else, the straw is just the right ph.


Also - Never, ever reuse the water for a second batch - you will regret it. You may wish, however, to save the steep for use in your spawn - but you will have to dilute it.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
im confused benifial microbes? i just mixed my bulk and i was about the boil it.... so what should i do now? its mixed with earthy substances verm EWC a little soil coir ect. should i even worry about sterilization then? just iinoculate?

but benificial microbes? how does that work thats a first all i ever hear is sterile sterile sterile.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
im confused benifial microbes? i just mixed my bulk and i was about the boil it.... so what should i do now? its mixed with earthy substances verm EWC a little soil coir ect. should i even worry about sterilization then? just iinoculate?

but benificial microbes? how does that work thats a first all i ever hear is sterile sterile sterile.

Pasteurization does not sterilize, it leaves the good organisms (the thermophilic ones) behind and they tend to keep everything in check until your mycelium takes hold.

I really don't know why everyone insists on these exotic mixtures - vermiculite is used for water retention, something that straw does well on it's own, soil? don't know why, the straw provides primary nutrition for the mycelium to break down from celulitic matter to whatever constituants they need. One of the reasons it seems to like manure is because it is straw ground fine and a lot of dead microbes.


It is sterile sterile sterile until you get into the real world, then the point is to coexist with the natural environment. When you work with pasterurized straw you are now working with a system, and that system is specfic to mycelium above all else - for about two weeks.
 

testtime

Well-Known Member
I would mix it with nothing, straw is self moisture correcting. Also, don't BOIL! you will kill the beneficial microbes that give you that two week window - no higher than 180 degrees, no loser than 160. And the finer the straw the better. I have found that you need nothing else, the straw is just the right ph.
Ok. I've broken out the steps I think I need. Please review and correct.

#1: Take a chunks of straw and cut to 1" pieces. Or smaller. Chop that shit up. Do I leave the seed portions, or remove them? Do I leave the small dusty bits in or wash them out? I do NOT know what type of straw this is.

#2: Put in mesh laundry bag and place in pot of hot (NOT boiling) water.

#3: Maintain the temperature of the water at 170F (+-5) for 2 hours

#4: Remove, place on clean grate over sink in bathroom, let it drain and cool for (how long?) until temp hits 90s.

#5: Clean bin, tape holes to block air, clean hands, shower, long gloves, face mask.

#6: Place 1 inch of straw in bottom of bin.

#7: Shake out 5 qt jars of spawn. Toss in remaining straw up to 4" of height (or more? Or Less?)

#8: Mix that shit up.

#9: Compress not? Most straw tecs tell me I need to compress everything down at this point. I do NOT like the thought of pushing down hard and causing the spawn pieces to burst open.

#10: Cover with a layer of spawn or straw on the top, or just leave the mixture exposed?

#11: Do I need to press a holy piece of thick plastic to the top of the substrate, or can I just use the top lid of the bin to keep the moisture in?

#12: Put lid on, tape enough to keep it from accidently coming off, but leave enough side/top edge untaped to allow for a bit of GE.

#13: Wait. Bins are translucent, and I allow light. Put lights on 12/12 timer. Watch.

#14: 10-20 days bins are fully colonized.

#15: Do I wait for pins to show up or do I continue on full colonization?

#16: Prep casing material. Pasteurized. Do I use 50/50+ or something else?

#17: Layout 1/2-1 inch of casing.

#18: Replace tape with polyfill. Will I need to fan/spray or is this self-contained? If I need to fan/spray, do I wait to open up and introduce fanning and spraying or start immediately?

#19: Do I patch casing to force even final breakthrough? Or leave it alone?

#20: 2nd flush prep? Soak? Run in tub? Just hide for a couple of weeks?
 

mojoganjaman

Well-Known Member
if you have seeds you have hay...not very good for boomers in my mind, simply because the hay stalk is solid, not hollow like straw...myc likes to run thru the hollow stalks as it colonizes the sub...a simple way to remember...hay is to feed livestock...straw is to provide bedding for livestock...hth
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Ok. I've broken out the steps I think I need. Please review and correct.

#1: Take a chunks of straw and cut to 1" pieces. Or smaller. Chop that shit up. Do I leave the seed portions, or remove them? Do I leave the small dusty bits in or wash them out? I do NOT know what type of straw this is.

#2: Put in mesh laundry bag and place in pot of hot (NOT boiling) water.

#3: Maintain the temperature of the water at 170F (+-5) for 2 hours

#4: Remove, place on clean grate over sink in bathroom, let it drain and cool for (how long?) until temp hits 90s.

#5: Clean bin, tape holes to block air, clean hands, shower, long gloves, face mask.

#6: Place 1 inch of straw in bottom of bin.

#7: Shake out 5 qt jars of spawn. Toss in remaining straw up to 4" of height (or more? Or Less?)

#8: Mix that shit up.

#9: Compress not? Most straw tecs tell me I need to compress everything down at this point. I do NOT like the thought of pushing down hard and causing the spawn pieces to burst open.

#10: Cover with a layer of spawn or straw on the top, or just leave the mixture exposed?

#11: Do I need to press a holy piece of thick plastic to the top of the substrate, or can I just use the top lid of the bin to keep the moisture in?

#12: Put lid on, tape enough to keep it from accidently coming off, but leave enough side/top edge untaped to allow for a bit of GE.

#13: Wait. Bins are translucent, and I allow light. Put lights on 12/12 timer. Watch.

#14: 10-20 days bins are fully colonized.

#15: Do I wait for pins to show up or do I continue on full colonization?

#16: Prep casing material. Pasteurized. Do I use 50/50+ or something else?

#17: Layout 1/2-1 inch of casing.

#18: Replace tape with polyfill. Will I need to fan/spray or is this self-contained? If I need to fan/spray, do I wait to open up and introduce fanning and spraying or start immediately?

#19: Do I patch casing to force even final breakthrough? Or leave it alone?

#20: 2nd flush prep? Soak? Run in tub? Just hide for a couple of weeks?
As the poster above states - you don't want hay, you want straw, the fewer seeds the better because the seeds will be a contamination point.

You don't have to "wash" anything" (BTW, the pics I posted of my shaggys were grown in pure straw with a peat and lime caseing).

The point of compressing is that straw, for all of it's wonderful qualities does not offer much nutrient value, so the more dense the straw the more dense the nutrition as well, The reason you shred the straw is twofold, the first is that straw has a waxy covering that keeps it from absorbing water, the shredding allows the inside of the straw to become soaked. But the second reason for highly shredded substrate is so that you don't have to compress it, it is naturaly dense as it is. This precludes the necessity of mannualy compressing like the "straw log" teks and all of the rest of the nonesense they do.

I like to press down using a matching bin filled with books - the main reason I do this is to allow the best contact possible between the spawn and the straw - and also - if you are looking for perfection and I know you are (any yield is great but you are going for the gold, you are looking for HUGE yields and in order to have an even flush you want the surface of your substrate to be flat as a table top. Doing this enables you to case very evenly - and that even case means that the mycelium will all reach to just below the surface at the same time. If you examine the pics I posted you will see a void at the lower left side, this void is caused by the casing being deeper at that spot.

Sure, put some spawn on top, but you don't need to have it cover completely, figure a point of innoculation about an inch and a half from any other point in three dimensions, You would do well to put more spawn on the very bottom, before you put any straw down, your contamination is most likely to happen at the bottom and if any occurs you will be hard pressed to be able to cut it out.

NO light - not at the top and not through the bin - the light will ruin what you are trying to do and you will have lost control of your pin initiation, you are likely to get knoting before your casing is run through and then you will start getting fruit at the bottom - harder to pick there, and you compromise your orchestration.

As I said, I just put the entire thing in a black bag with a few holes and I fold the top in such a way as to keep the light from entering the holes.

A week, 10 days, or maybe a little more - in a darkened room, open the thing up and marvel at how healthy the growth is - if it is fully run through you are ready to case, if it has a few dry spots, cut them out and case anyway. If you see mold, bag it up and take it out of your room.

If it isn't fully covered and looks healthy close it down and wait a few more days.

NOW you case, I'd go at least 3/4 inch depending on how deep your substrate - the deeper the substrate the deeper you want to case. My shaggies are 11 inches deep - about the extent you ever want to go as heat bildup from the metabolic rate of the mycelium will begin to inhibit growth or even damage it. 6 inches is pretty good..

So you case, and then you close it all back up for another week or more. You are allowed to look, you are looking for just the smallest amount of growth through to the top of the casing. That growth will coast for a few days after you initiate your pinning cycle. I usually want about 20 percent. What you don't ever want to happen is for the mycelium to change growing directions. It starts out growing upward, vertical wise. When it reaches the top it will begin to grow out horizontaly - that is called overlay and it spells the end of that region for pinning so the less of that the more your entire surface will pin.




I see you are mistaken on one of the basics - you don't want anything even close to a pin until your casing is colonized. You case long before you want pins. you do not want to initiate pinning until every other condition is met - namely the mycelium has grown to within a fraction of an inch of the top of your casing.

NOW, you start your fresh air cycle - 1 to 3 fresh air changes an hour - keep to about 90 to 95 percent humidity. Now and only now do you expose the top of your casing to light - and if you want to do it right you drop your temperature. If you have screwed up and have more than about 20 percent coverage on top, you can slow the coast down by a temperature drop.

You can patch loosely if you want, sprinkling some casing on the overgrown parts but it doesn't work very well and don't ever do it twice, better to control it with temperatures.

If you have done everything right, your second flush will begin 3 to 5 days from your first pick.

Your third flush will take over a week after your second, and so on - but if you have done things correctly it won't make much sense to continue after flush 3 as you will get minimal additional yield - they will, however, tend to be large to gigantic fruit.
 

mojoganjaman

Well-Known Member
quick add here....soak your straw for 2 hrs in water with a few drops of dish soap....rids the stalk of the waxy covering and allows for better moisture absorption....hth
 

testtime

Well-Known Member
As the poster above states - you don't want hay, you want straw, the fewer seeds the better because the seeds will be a contamination point.
...
I see you are mistaken on one of the basics - you don't want anything even close to a pin until your casing is colonized. You case long before you want pins. you do not want to initiate pinning until every other condition is met - namely the mycelium has grown to within a fraction of an inch of the top of your casing.
...
NOW, you start your fresh air cycle - 1 to 3 fresh air changes an hour - keep to about 90 to 95 percent humidity. Now and only now do you expose the top of your casing to light - and if you want to do it right you drop your temperature. If you have screwed up and have more than about 20 percent coverage on top, you can slow the coast down by a temperature drop.
I'm pretty sure I have straw. Not a lot of seeds. I'll cut them out the next time I prep.

I'm aware on light initiating pinning. In the past, I haven't really cared about the qty of any given bin, just the flow of the process. Really. I loved watching it grow through the clear containers. And I'd toss after the 2nd flush, into the mixed pile, and pick as they showed up without caring too much. My rationalization was based on cost of materials vs time, and always have a few more bins in the run than what I really wanted. It's amazing how wasteful someone can be when they are playing with a hobby.

Also, I played with over a dozen strains. Most didn't like my style of growing and behaved as you expect, but a couple didn't care, and pinned huge even with my bad light process. That allowed my to standardize on them without caring about the others that didn't work for me.

Also2, it seems the strains that benefit the most from casing are also the ones that grow the slowest and are benefited by dark growth. The slower ones will eat the surface over a week or more, giving the early pieces more light and pin time. This means you get those early pinning clumps and then you are screwed.

I have a few of those strains. I've just bagged them.

But I also have a couple of strains that run the myc through the sub so fast that they have explosive rhizo growth on the top, and consume the surface in a day or 2. Those I will keep out in the light, they are pretty much fully done, but I will wait for knots to show up before I move to next step, which is either direct fruiting (caseless) or doing a casing mix. I'm aware of matting, and if those strains show that tendency in the future I will always case them. Some just pin happily at that stage. I'm doing both, on the same strains on the same subs. I like to test.

But now, I'd appreciate a bit more efficiency, so I'm perfectly willing to follow the standard "keep dark" advice for most of them in the future.

FA cycle? 3 times an hour? I'm not automated in this setup. I have a decent automated Martha, but the bins are not fitting into it. If I open, mist, fan, wait a minute for evap, mist again, close a few times a day, how bad is it? I work at home, and can do more often, but that is my baseline.

Hmm. I need a scalable automation method to handle multiple tubs at once.

An adjustable blower (HEPA) going into a 4 in tube which feeds a series of 1 inch tubes, each attached to each tub. That'll handle my blowout. Distributing mist isn't as easy and I sure don't want to dry these guys out if the blower is working but the misting isn't. Also, I don't want to add any mechanical complexity if I don't have to.

I suspect I'll build something up after the 2nd pass, after I determine what is needed vs what is desired.

Thanks for the detailed answer, it is very helpful.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
yes, 1 to three times an hour - a bit more is better but too much will dry your casing even though you have preconditioned the air. What your constant air movement does is continualy transporting moisture from deep in the mycelial mass to the surface at a constant rate - also, no air movement means you are more likely to get contaminated.
 

testtime

Well-Known Member
yes, 1 to three times an hour - a bit more is better but too much will dry your casing even though you have preconditioned the air. What your constant air movement does is continualy transporting moisture from deep in the mycelial mass to the surface at a constant rate - also, no air movement means you are more likely to get contaminated.

Ok, its been a while, a few tubs later, so I can make some comparisons.

First of all, I have a couple of PE bins, a week apart, that are coir/verm.

One of them is mid blob early pin. This is pure rye.
The other, a week later, is corn (my 1st) has not started blobbing yet, but it is expected.

Both of these ate the sub FAST. The rye one needs more spraying (maybe because it is growing the blobs, maybe it had less moisture to start), as opposed to the corn one which generates it's own moisture. On the other hand, the corn one is also an inch higher. I only fan it, I spray very little.

I also have 2 month old coir/verm sub layed out with 5 jars of random cube bins. Growing VERY GODDAMN SLOWLY. So I take the same number of jars of the same myc, but these are corn not rye, and I lay out multiple bins of straw. Nothing but straw, between 1/4 and an inch long cut up, and a few seeds that I let get by. Pasteurized, drained, cooled, layed out, mixed up, and then tossed into garbage bags (with holes).

I peek a few days later.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT. They are almost done. In consolidation mode. Ready to case in a few more days.

THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU.
 

testtime

Well-Known Member
Ok, what next.

Of 4 straw tubs, one went green (maybe tric). The same strain also lost a coir tub to green as well. Of the 3 straw left, 2 are "done". 1 of the done was the 1st I made, so I have lots of pieces too long and sticking up (you live and learn). Do I leaves those pieces alone or cut them?

Both of them have spots on the top that seem a bit dry and did not colonize. Do I do anything special with these spots, or just case over the whole surface?

Or simply wait. It seems the adjacent myc might make the jump. While these are done (or as close as I've ever seen, since I don't "know" straw yet), they are NOT consolidated.

Some straw teks include placing a piece of heavy plastic with holes over the surface during the run. Will that avoid the dry spots and help with anything sticking it up, or will it hurt too much when ripping it off later? For future tubs of course, I don't plan on laying anything on top of the current ones unless you tell me otherwise (except casing).

For the one that contammed, is it possible to save it? It has a 6" area of green on the top, but is 100% colonized except that. Even consolidating. Can I scrape/salt the top, flip it over, and fruit from the bottom? I'd never try that with coir but straw has serious structure to hold it together.

I've seen some teks that salt over, but I haven't seen any flame ones. If I use a pipe torch, can I kill the majority of the contam before the flip?

Or am I a bad news article waiting to happen?

Thanks
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Ok, what next.

Of 4 straw tubs, one went green (maybe tric). The same strain also lost a coir tub to green as well. Of the 3 straw left, 2 are "done". 1 of the done was the 1st I made, so I have lots of pieces too long and sticking up (you live and learn). Do I leaves those pieces alone or cut them?

Both of them have spots on the top that seem a bit dry and did not colonize. Do I do anything special with these spots, or just case over the whole surface?

Or simply wait. It seems the adjacent myc might make the jump.

Some straw teks include placing a piece of heavy plastic with holes over the surface during the run. Will that avoid the dry spots and help with anything sticking it up, or will it hurt too much when ripping it off later?

For the one that contammed, is it possible to save it? It has a 6" area of green on the top, but is 100% colonized except that. Can I scrape/salt the top, flip it over, and fruit from the bottom? I'd never try that with coir but straw has serious structure to hold it together.

I've seen some teks that salt over, but I haven't seen any flame ones. If I use a pipe torch, can I kill the majority of the contam before the flip?

Or am I a bad news article waiting to happen?

Thanks
Cut them, they will cause you nothig but grief. the spots that are dry didn' colonize (told you!), spray them with steril water, if they ar not too big, dig them out to the point where you reach mycelium, you can case over the surface but you risk infecting the casing UNDERNEITH - so it wil gro in huge unseen matts that will surface and will be impossible to control using tradional methods - also it will put spores into your atmosphere at alarming rates. I'd wait, the rest of yours substrate is fine, it is in no danger. You made those holes too big didn't you - you were afraid that it wouldn't get enough air.

Yes, puting the plastic right over the substrate with tiny holes works great - and the mycelium tends to strip right off the plastic.

Chuck the contaminated one - all it will do is compromise your atmosphere for further runs. Salt or baking soda works but only for top spawned contamination that you can dig out in it's entirety and spread over and beyond with salt or baking soda solutions - it does not work with deeply infesed substrates or casings.


Be willing to chuck everything and clean your room up if you see more than a few spots of contam, especially early on, you will be fighting an uphill battle that you are unlikely to even draw to a standstil. You migh get a yeild, but not even close to what they work you pu into it deserves.
 
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