How to Read your Plants?

TheLastWood said:

Have you ever squeezed a regular plastic pot back and forth when you are NOT transplanting? The soil (in my case coco) will not expand again and there will be a crevice on the sides of the rootball that can go down to near the bottom of the pot.

Also, according to "public knowledge" air pockets in soil can create "dead zones" on your medium where roots can't grow because they dry out and die. This is one of those things you hear ppl saying and has become public belief, if its true or not, I don't know. I have no experience with this happening so I can't say for sure. But shifting soil around seems like a good way to create air pockets.

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Air pockets happen, if you fill the pot with water and see bubbles you have air pockets the way to prevent this is to add 1 drop of Ivory Liquid dish soap per gallon to your water (note you can also use Palmalive, but Ivory is better)

A simple experiment for all. Sometime this summer when you have some nice seedlings or young plants growing(young because its easier to see thier movement)try this during a full moon. Put those young plants outdoors with a clear view of the entire sky as the sun sets and the moon rises. Then watch the plant follow the path of the moon through the sky as if its the sun. Its been argues I know. But the simple fact is near and at peak fullness, the moon does reflect enough lumens from the sun to cause hormonal imbalance if it were contiuously full..........

cowboylogic said:

A simple experiment for all. Sometime this summer when you have some nice seedlings or young plants growing(young because its easier to see thier movement)try this during a full moon. Put those young plants outdoors with a clear view of the entire sky as the sun sets and the moon rises. Then watch the plant follow the path of the moon through the sky as if its the sun. Its been argues I know. But the simple fact is near and at peak fullness, the moon does reflect enough lumens from the sun to cause hormonal imbalance if it were contiuously full..........

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I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Sometimes I wonder if there is some plant function that may only be performed under the moonlight. Or maybe not a specific plant function, but maybe were underestimating the importance of moonlight. Uncle ben just posted a thread on diffused light vs. Direct light. And that's what the moon is, diffused, or reflected light. His post says diffused light is used by the plants more effectively.

I know reef growers use, and find importance in there "moon lighting" and have "moon lamps". sounds like a great experiment that may go hand in hand with a lot of your experiments riddleme. Maybe ill even do it.

Were always discovering the importance of different types of lighting. Maybe moonlight is a factor in the advantages of growing outdoors. They list the moon cycles in farmers almanacs, and I've even read reports on when to plant, clone, harvest, and cure according to the moon cycle.

Either way, we can all agree consistancy is what's important when it comes to environmental factors.

I sow and harvest based upon the moon cycle

Another fun step in understanding your plants. Take a few clones, say 4-6. Grow all of them in containers, half inside under lights. And the other half outside under the sun. Controlling the light period of the outdoor plants by covering and uncovering them to coincide with indoor light cycles. Feed them all the same diet. Take alot of notes during the grow. And at harvest, which will probaly be a different times for the two groups, you will have gained another insight on how light and enviroment affect nutritional needs of a plant. You just may be surprised at the results.......
EDIT: If you have some beans you know to grow fairly homogeneous then similar results can be had growing them in the same fashion....

riddleme said:

Air pockets happen, if you fill the pot with water and see bubbles you have air pockets the way to prevent this is to add 1 drop of Ivory Liquid dish soap per gallon to your water (note you can also use Palmalive, but Ivory is better)

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yucca extract for us organic growers......it should be a part of any peat based medium grow in my opinion. Take care of the possible issue BEFORE it becomes a problem.

Illumination said:

I sow and harvest based upon the moon cycle

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I've heard of growers that water by the moon cycle.
They're arguement is that the moon has effect on water on the earth, ie the tides.
So, they say, watering just before a tide or full moon or something ( I didn't buy it so I really didn't get all the details),
causes the water to be lifted by gravity and spread throughout the pot ... idk. Here's the link.
If your an organic grower you gotta read this, I dk if they're joking or serious anymore...
One guy say that planting a eather boot in you pot makes bigger plants because of the foot fungus???
idfk just check it out

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=209971

Beansly said:

I've heard of growers that water by the moon cycle.
They're arguement is that the moon has effect on water on the earth, ie the tides.
So, they say, watering just before a tide or full moon or something ( I didn't buy it so I really didn't get all the details),
causes the water to be lifted by gravity and spread throughout the pot ... idk. Here's the link.
If your an organic grower you gotta read this, I dk if they're joking or serious anymore...
One guy say that planting a eather boot in you pot makes bigger plants because of the foot fungus???
idfk just check it out

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=209971

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Only if it is a cowboy boot...

cowboylogic said:

yucca extract for us organic growers......it should be a part of any peat based medium grow in my opinion. Take care of the possible issue BEFORE it becomes a problem.

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Is there a horticultural grade or is it just the liquid extract? Searched it and only found one site specific to plants.

bigman4270 said:

Is there a horticultural grade or is it just the liquid extract? Searched it and only found one site specific to plants.

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There are many sources. I use a 70% extract from a local book/health store. 1:100 ratio everytime I water or feed. Mix and drink a glass myself eveyday at the same ratio. edit, sorry byg, yes the liquid extract, cold pressed yada yada. Its all good....

I read a little that its good for Arthritis. Have to do some more reading. Thanks brother!

Things that have the possibilty to make something hanging about more avalable, you bet, I'm in...

riddleme said:

Air pockets happen, if you fill the pot with water and see bubbles you have air pockets the way to prevent this is to add 1 drop of Ivory Liquid dish soap per gallon to your water (note you can also use Palmalive, but Ivory is better)

Click to expand...

Somewhere buried in Hobbe's thread he discusses the rate at which water is added to his buckets (or pots in my case). He basically dumps the water in stages, forcing it to take O2 down with it. I'm not an expert, and I'm no botonist, but common sense tells me this is going to create air pockets as the water moves trough the medium. All the time on here there are conversations about busting myths and hype. The roots need and use oxygen, that almost means to mean that they need air. The key word was almost. I know you'll have pockets and gaps if the soils is dry. But if you did it right before you watered that would correct itself. Everyone agrees that the larger the root mass the bigger the plant and or yield. I'm simply looking for another way to up yield for free. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree or over thinking it. Maybe air pockets or dead zones kill the roots for other reasons than it being an air pocket. I've pretty much convinced myself that I'm trying this next go around. That way I can have a side by side with the same strain from clones. I've read enough and learned enough in the last month that challenges conventional wisdom. I think there's something to at least be learned.

kevin murphy said:

what litre can u get them smart pots in...

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You can get them in whatever size you want up to 400gal. http://www.smartpots.com/ Like anything, there's good and bad. Do a bit of reading on them before you rush out and buy some. The plants use more water. Some of that is evaporation. It adds to the humidity in the growing space. I'm in a 3x3 closet basically and in veg, I'm loving the easy extra humidity. Come flower, I need a good economical way to lower it. I've got time so I'm not sweating the small stuff yet. Add to that, this is my first use of them. I haven't potted up again yet.

I'm just thinking, smart pots already deliver so much oxygen to the rootzone compared to regular plastic pots, that possibly damaging the nutrient intake on a rapidly growing plant, would out-weigh any benefit gained from a little more oxygen that "might be gained"

But if you have the resources why not do it and find out?

Yeah Right said:

Somewhere buried in Hobbe's thread he discusses the rate at which water is added to his buckets (or pots in my case). He basically dumps the water in stages, forcing it to take O2 down with it. I'm not an expert, and I'm no botonist, but common sense tells me this is going to create air pockets as the water moves trough the medium. All the time on here there are conversations about busting myths and hype. The roots need and use oxygen, that almost means to mean that they need air. The key word was almost. I know you'll have pockets and gaps if the soils is dry. But if you did it right before you watered that would correct itself. Everyone agrees that the larger the root mass the bigger the plant and or yield. I'm simply looking for another way to up yield for free. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree or over thinking it. Maybe air pockets or dead zones kill the roots for other reasons than it being an air pocket. I've pretty much convinced myself that I'm trying this next go around. That way I can have a side by side with the same strain from clones. I've read enough and learned enough in the last month that challenges conventional wisdom. I think there's something to at least be learned.

Click to expand...

Your on the right trail YR. Simple physics, two objects cannot share the same space at the same time...

Beansly said:

I've heard of growers that water by the moon cycle.
They're arguement is that the moon has effect on water on the earth, ie the tides.
So, they say, watering just before a tide or full moon or something ( I didn't buy it so I really didn't get all the details),
causes the water to be lifted by gravity and spread throughout the pot ... idk. Here's the link.
If your an organic grower you gotta read this, I dk if they're joking or serious anymore...
One guy say that planting a eather boot in you pot makes bigger plants because of the foot fungus???
idfk just check it out

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=209971

Click to expand...

To some, gonna sound negative again and that's OK, but like I said in another thread, ICMag is full of noobs that will conjure up and spin some really wacked out stuff. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/424933-changes-way-you-think-about.html No different that any other cannabis forum though. They're into voodoo methods, voodoo products, and if you look at their gardens they usually are the pits, OR, they were lucky in that what they did elsewhere had a positive affect as opposed to what they're pinning it on, like watering by moon phases which is pretty (botanically) stupid. You water when the plant needs watering. Also, because folks don't understand what makes a plant tick, they prescribe weird theories and actions. The moon thing is a perfect example. That feller does not have a clue as to what the physical and mechanical dynamics are regarding water movement throughout the plant. It's an issue of cell/xylem pressure differences, turgor pressure, capillary action and such as induced by leaf transpiration, osmosis, etc.

Watering in stages has no merit regarding O2 uptake. It's another "feel good" thingie. Drench the pot before the soil completely dries out. Don't water again until the pot feels light to the lift. Dry soil induces dry pockets that are very hard to get back to a hygroscopic state, especially with peat based mixes. Another noob misgiven is advising folks to let the soil dry out before watering. You should never do that as it creates dry pockets and compromises plant vigor.

If you want good nutrient and water uptake, then you plan your garden around the best possible mass of foliage and roots based on the natural environment it is indigenous to, doesn't matter if its cactus, roses, grapes, or cannabis. Find out everything you can about what's its been genetically programmed to do over the span of milennium and provide those elements it likes. For example, I sure wouldn't try to grow cactus in partial shade, in a peat based composty mix and watered frequently nor would I grow roses (or cannabis) in a highly alkaline soil.

I've found copper hydroxide paints to provide very effective and efficient root systems. For the organic gardener, there are some tweaks beginning with the use of adequate size pots that are tall and have internal vertical ribs.

Just because you hear (read) something or it seems to be popular does not mean it's the best way. A "school of thought" is just that - 'thought' aka feelings. Unless one can down the anecdotal evidence and provide empirical proof, I don't buy into any of it.

UB

Yeah Right said:

You can get them in whatever size you want up to 400gal. http://www.smartpots.com/ Like anything, there's good and bad. Do a bit of reading on them before you rush out and buy some. The plants use more water. Some of that is evaporation. It adds to the humidity in the growing space. I'm in a 3x3 closet basically and in veg, I'm loving the easy extra humidity. Come flower, I need a good economical way to lower it. I've got time so I'm not sweating the small stuff yet. Add to that, this is my first use of them. I haven't potted up again yet.

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I assume the bad is that they don't completely terminate root tips? That is the affect you want.

congrats on ur 3k post UB. I don't want to start an arguement but how can you pretend to be the only one who fully knows and understands the powers of the moon. To speak with such certainty that there can absolutely be no correlation between pressures built inside of plants, and the pull of the moon. I'm not saying there definately is, but how can you know for sure?

And for someone who so eagerly challenges anyone that ever defies "conventional growing wisdom" I'm surprised that you quaff at moon cycles, that have been used by farmers for a very long time. The moon has always been given its regard, and has numerous uses. How long have ppl been using the moon?

I don't see why you discourage anyone who doesn't think exactly as you do. In the end, whether a question is right or wrong, by constantly stomping on ppls ideas your are discouraging the advancement of education as a whole.