Hydro (Advanced Nutrients) vs Soil (Fox Farms) ~ Fucking Incredible

I tried to put as much description as I could in the title. For those of you that are following along with my first round of Fucking Incredible from Vancouver Island Seed Company this is the thread for the long awaited, overly anticipated and finally underway Soil vs. Hydro grow.

The Setup:
8x3 Closet to be seperated into two sections each with a 3x4 area covered by a 600w HPS lamp. The 600's won't actually be in the room until flower, I will veg under one 6 lamp T5HO to start them off, then upgrade each side to it's own 400w lamp and finally they will each be flowered with 600w lamps. Really it's about economics and energy efficiency more than anything else.

The "Left" side of the growroom:
2'x4' Ebb & Flow tray
Advanced Nutrients Sensi 2 part as the base nutrients.
Big Bud
Overdrive
CarboLoad
Hygrozyme
Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus

Note: I am seasoned at using Advanced Nutrients and this lineup. Hydro has for a long time been my "thing" and I've got it nailed down pretty solid. Although of course I'm sure the road will have bumps, I'm sure I can smooth those bumps fairly efficiently on this side of the growroom.

The "Right" side of the growroom:
6x - 3 Gallon Square Pot
Fox Farms Happy Frog Soil
Fox Farms Ocean Forest Soil
Perlite
Fox Farms Base Nutrients (Grow Big, Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom)

The Reason:
My very first grow was a soil grow. I grew 2 plants under a 250w HPS Lamp in my closet (Ahh, how far we've come). The product was decent, the plants went yellow really early on and I didn't have any knowledge on how to correct the problem. The plants finished out and I actually got a pretty decent yield for a first grow (about 3 1/2oz's if I remember correctly). I switched to hydro and from then on that's what I've done. I've had my ups and downs with hydro, but I've stuck with it and I've been successful at it. But the debate always comes up of which is better and while hydro seems to be the hands down winner in growth rate and yield over time there seems to be a strong suggestion (to say the least) that the flavor of soil is unmatched by hydro and that they aren't even comparable. Rather than spouting off at the mouth about things I don't really know or understand I've decided to grow side by side soil vs. hydro for my own information, experience and knowledge and also to share with you, the RIU community.

My Plea:
I want this comparison to be as fair and balanced as possible. I have found Fox Farms nutrients soils to be widely accepted as quality products. So I've decided to go out and get what I had available from them, aside from Light Warrior and all of their various "Bloom Enhancers". But that's not to say I won't use any additional products, only that I haven't gotten any at this point.

I am not an experienced soil grower. I need your help to provide you with the information that you want and for the comparison that I know you want to see. No one wants to follow along while I miserably fail at growing soil plants and I go on the rest of my days unfairly bashing soil just because I lacked the knowledge. So please, help me out with the soil half of this.

Here is how I've figured it so far, let me know if you see a flaw or have some suggestions on how it can be done better. I have 20-30 cuttings of Fucking Incredible but the "mothers" haven't been sexed yet so I don't know how many are male and how many are female. I did however number all of the plants and I took 3 cuttings from EACH plant so that as long as I got at least 4 females from the original 12 seeds that were purchased I would be able to complete this grow and complete it fairly. There will be equal plants on both soil and hydro and they will have the same #'s from the mother plants. There are now 8 plants left after killing 2 males and having 2 seeds peter out after germination and they are #1-8 (logically). If 1,3, 4 and 5 are female then I will have a 1,3,4, and 5 in both hydro and soil as well the additional's on each side, if that makes any sense.

I will be able to in the end look and compare #1 to #1 as well as the overall results, but at least when I smoke a #1 from each I know it came from the same genetic mother.


The clones are starting to show roots (I believe 3 or 4 had roots this morning). I plan on using Solo cups at the beginning and using Happy Frog soil not mixed at all with perlite and no nutrients. Just to get them started off on their individual lives nice and easy.

I will then transplant to the 3 gallon pots that I plan to fill with a 50/50 mix of perlite and FFOF. From there it's just getting the watering down and letting them do their thing until they need some additional nutrients which I figure will be at least 4-5 weeks down the road.

I'm going to be using RO water for this grow so I may need to add Cal-Mag to the soil side as I already know the hydro side will need it.

Thanks for your help, thanks for playing along and I hope I can educate, inform and learn with this grow.

I have a link to my current Fucking Incredible Grow Log in my signature, feel free to peak in, they just started 12/12 and should be showing sex in the next couple of days. These are the clone donors, so it's a good way to get a sneak peak.

I appreciate this, but using clones from multiple mothers(from seed) that may or may not be females is going to skew the results. I dont see how you can end up with legit results this way.

So Im not confused. The purpose of this grow is to see how much difference in growth there is between Hydro and Soil. Its not a grow off between AN and Fox farms correct?

DaveCoulier said:

I appreciate this, but using clones from multiple mothers(from seed) that may or may not be females is going to skew the results. I dont see how you can end up with legit results this way.

So Im not confused. The purpose of this grow is to see how much difference in growth there is between Hydro and Soil. Its not a grow off between AN and Fox farms correct?

Click to expand...

It's not a grow off between AN and Fox Farms, I'd have to use the same medium for that. It's just soil vs hydro and I chose the candidates that I believed would yield the best results from each (with me behind the wheel). I can't do compost teas and other extravagant (read: messy) methods as I live in an apartment and need to keep things pretty low key. I'm a legal and legit patient, but I'm not going to out and mix tons and tons of shit and soil on my patio.

As far as the fairness and using clones from different mothers the plan is like this....


8 plants now so lets assume 4 females although I'm hoping for better as 2 males already showed preflowers and got nuked.

So let's say the mothers show sex and the results are as follows

#1 - Female
#2 - Female
#3 - Male
#4 - Male
#5 - Female
#6 - Male
#7 - Male
#8 - Female

I have taken 3 clones from EACH of those plants (because I really wanted two of each and I need to account for cloning failures).

I would then have 12 new clones that I know are female 3 of each 1,2,5 and 8.

I would then have all of the following GUARANTEED female clones and the rest would've been trashed.

#1 - Soil
#1 - Hydro
#1
#2 - Soil
#2 - Hydro
#2
#5 - Soil
#5 - Hydro
#5
#8 - Soil
#8 - Hydro
#8


I would then be left with an additional 1, 2, 5, and 8. I would then have to decide where those would go and that would either be A) into a veg space to become mothers or b) divided equally into soil and hydro so say 1 & 2 would be the "extras" in hydro and 5 and 8 would be the "extras" in soil.

Make sense?

This isn't about yield as much as it is quality. I will get to see the difference in growth rate, vigor and yield yes, but really what I'm looking for is the difference in quality.

I may end up with 8 females and all of them would be viable so I would grow 1 of each of the 8 on both sides (best outcome possible so let's hope for that!)

Starting with the Happy frog and then going to the FFOF is perfect (or you could use Light Warrior to supplement for Happy Frog, I would, Light Warrior is more consistant, and is meant to be the starting media for Fox Farm product line grows, where as Happy Frog is more the soilless Coco alternative to FFOF ). FFOF is meant to be transplanted into, and not to be transplanted again from there . When you transplant, make sure to top dress with FFOF about 1/4-1/2 inch to ensure even media culture.

Mixing 50/50 perlite to FFOF is a BAD MOVE. Use the FF products as they are intended to be used, or the comparison is capluey, and takes all the credibility away..... No more than 15% perlite in those 3 gallon pots to stay accurate and in accordance to how the products are supposed to be used (an premix too using the coarse perlite). If using R/O water, you will need to use slightly more Big Bloom, and more ph adjusters further into flower, as well as more supplements such as Cal Mag and EDTA Chelated Iron. I am subscribed and will be watching closely .

FF is crappy Hydro products..... FF is a soil company.... use their soil and soil products to compare to AN.

In order to do an effective comparison, you would not need to use the same media. AN is primarily a Hydro company, FF is primarily a soil company. Use both products as intended, and an accurate comparison can be made in general about the products.

Some one else is comparing Cutting Edge, FF, and AN. But I rule out the findings all together, simply because the products are not all being used as their manufacturer intends or advertises.

Ok. That made more sense. Thank you for outlining it more clearly for me . Im looking forward to this. Always wanted to see a Hydro vs Soil grow.

Subscribed. I understand this is for average quality comparson. I like reading ur posts lasrbrn. Thanks for this.

theloadeddragon said:

Starting with the Happy frog and then going to the FFOF is perfect (or you could use Light Warrior to supplement for Happy Frog, I would, Light Warrior is more consistant, and is meant to be the starting media for Fox Farm product line grows, where as Happy Frog is more the soilless Coco alternative to FFOF ). FFOF is meant to be transplanted into, and not to be transplanted again from there . When you transplant, make sure to top dress with FFOF about 1/4-1/2 inch to ensure even media culture.

Click to expand...

I didn't look at it very long and almost grabbed the Light Warrior too. I can always pick up some organic potting soil if the coco/soiless medium you think will make a difference long term. They won't be in that alone for very long. Just until they are big enough to transplant into FFOF without nuking the little girls.

theloadeddragon said:

Mixing 50/50 perlite to FFOF is a BAD MOVE. Use the FF products as they are intended to be used, or the comparison is capluey, and takes all the credibility away..... No more than 15% perlite in those 3 gallon pots to stay accurate and in accordance to how the products are supposed to be used (an premix too using the coarse perlite). If using R/O water, you will need to use slightly more Big Bloom, and more ph adjusters further into flower, as well as more supplements such as Cal Mag and EDTA Chelated Iron. I am subscribed and will be watching closely .

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. I'll put in less Perlite, I just know that it really helps with drainage. I'll try to keep it as legit as possible and thanks for the help. I figured that if I used the RO water I would need to add CalMag, but the Cal Mag Plus should have Chelated Iron in it doesn't it? I'm not at home and don't have the info in front of me right now.

theloadeddragon said:

FF is crappy Hydro products..... FF is a soil company.... use their soil and soil products to compare to AN.

In order to do an effective comparison, you would not need to use the same media. AN is primarily a Hydro company, FF is primarily a soil company. Use both products as intended, and an accurate comparison can be made in general about the products.

Click to expand...

Exactly, I can't make any claims when this is all done except I should have a general idea of the increased flavor, aroma etc of soil buds vs. hydro and a general idea about the growth rate difference. I'm convinced there won't be much difference in taste between the two (maybe to snobs, but I generally smoke to get high, not tantilize my taste buds). The growth rate I expect to much better with hydro and I'm interested to see just how misinformed I may be or if it turns out exactly as I figured it would.

im growing fox farm soil and nutes im 3 weeks in so ill be here for ya

Some Cal Mag + brands have iron, some don't......

I am not a hydro buff, but a soil warrior lol..... I have had pretty decent results using hydro, but prefer soil all around... considering it seems you are on the same level, just the opposite side.........

I think we are both in for some interesting discoveries here.

I won't really have much to offer you on Hydro..... but Soil.... yeah, definitely..... so I think between us and the rest of the forum, this comparison will be fairly conclusive .

theloadeddragon said:

Some Cal Mag + brands have iron, some don't......

I am not a hydro buff, but a soil warrior lol..... I have had pretty decent results using hydro, but prefer soil all around... considering it seems you are on the same level, just the opposite side.........

I think we are both in for some interesting discoveries here.

I won't really have much to offer you on Hydro..... but Soil.... yeah, definitely..... so I think between us and the rest of the forum, this comparison will be fairly conclusive .

Click to expand...

Well I'll be looking for your help and guidance! I really want to give this the best shot at working out nicely as possible.

This will be another great thread to watch.... finally a valid side by side.... subs and aloing for the ride.... what did I learn from my last grow.... well I had15 5 gal pots in the tent... and it got overrun.... so thistime I leave 9 pots in the tent and set up a seperate 600 w with 6 pots( Iam legally limited to15) Well now the tent is full and I have 6 more monsters,,,,, yeah baby....

stoked! good luck dude

HookedOnChronic said:

stoked! good luck dude

Click to expand...

This is a really detailed and informative posting, so thanks man. Seems like you really know what you're going and it's going to be neat to see how each nute works out for you.

I've also been curious about a lot of the things you seem to be running, so this seems like it's the thread for me.



It's Friday, ain't got no job, ain't got sh-- to do.

chronicca77 said:

This is a really detailed and informative posting, so thanks man. Seems like you really know what you're going and it's going to be neat to see how each nute works out for you.

I've also been curious about a lot of the things you seem to be running, so this seems like it's the thread for me.



It's Friday, ain't got no job, ain't got sh-- to do.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I try to include as much as I can. I always remember to "copy" before I hit submit so I don't lose everything that I've typed out.

I thought I attached these photos last night, but anyway, the thread is worthless without SOMETHING in the way of pictures so here's pics of the Fucking Incredible mothers just entering the flowering cycle. They've been on 12/12 for 3 days now.

Im glad i found this post early on, because I have done the bubble buckets, and used hydro, but for the last 3 years I been using pro-mix and the taste of the bud is hands down better, but i cant wait to see actual results of them head-to-head im excited!

Okay, did some more work today. I acquired everything I need for the soil side now.

I went to Home Depot and picked up a couple of things. I was trying to figure out how to keep the floor clean and still allow runoff for the plants. How do I take care of removing the trays from all the bottoms of the pots?

Well, I bought a small mixing tub and a large mixing tub. The large mixing tub holds the pots and I've drill a few holes in the bottom of that tub. I have the smaller tub sitting directly below it so the runoff will accumulate in the bottom tray and I can easily empty it and/or clean it out.

Hopefully that will keep this whole thing from being terribly messy and the height of the base of the plants should be really close to even now so pictures will show the same heights.

Things are starting to come together, I think that there are less than 10 clones that haven't shown me roots yet and I'm still waiting for confirmation on sex's from the "mothers". They've been flowering just about one week now and I'm fairly certain there are 6 females and 1 male meaning that i have 18 female clones, but I need more convincing evidence before discarding clones, killing plants and committing pots.

Here's how the side by side will look....

laserbrn said:

Okay, did some more work today. I acquired everything I need for the soil side now.

I went to Home Depot and picked up a couple of things. I was trying to figure out how to keep the floor clean and still allow runoff for the plants. How do I take care of removing the trays from all the bottoms of the pots?

Well, I bought a small mixing tub and a large mixing tub. The large mixing tub holds the pots and I've drill a few holes in the bottom of that tub. I have the smaller tub sitting directly below it so the runoff will accumulate in the bottom tray and I can easily empty it and/or clean it out.

Hopefully that will keep this whole thing from being terribly messy and the height of the base of the plants should be really close to even now so pictures will show the same heights.

Things are starting to come together, I think that there are less than 10 clones that haven't shown me roots yet and I'm still waiting for confirmation on sex's from the "mothers". They've been flowering just about one week now and I'm fairly certain there are 6 females and 1 male meaning that i have 18 female clones, but I need more convincing evidence before discarding clones, killing plants and committing pots.

Here's how the side by side will look....

Click to expand...

Scribed!!!!!!!

I'm going to order the lights today so it won't be long before all of the equipment is on sight and ready for action. How long it will be before they are ready for use remains to be seen. The clones are just poppin' roots so it'll be at least a week before I really start seeing any growth occur. They will fit under my T5HO until the soil ones need transplant and I figure that will take at least two weeks.

Okay, it's officially underway. To fit everything under my T5 I put the soil plants inside of a large container and placed that in the tray to seperate it from "The Flood" for the hydro plants. This is only temporary until the hydro plants are transplanted into their containers and the soil cups are transplanted into the pots.

All of these clones look pretty good and I'm excited for this all to get underway! There are 6 on each side and I have my 2 party cup competition entry's, one soil, one hydro as well in with these for right now. They will eventually both be moved to the other flower tent.

hydro always wins