I <3 Corporate Greed

M

Metaphysicist

Member
Let me start by clarifying, I think that corporate greed is good, but only if the government is effective in correcting the free market system's shortcomings. Banks may have made choices that led to our economic downturn, but they were able to because of ineffective regulation and policy. I love capitalism, there are few things i love more. And at the heart of capitalism is the individual's sense of self interest. Without greed, people wouldn't run their businesses in an effective way. But without effective government intervention, the market system can fail us. Our problem is not corporate greed. Our problem is an ineffective regulatory system. What we need is an effective restructuring of our economic legislation. If you disagree, please respond. Opposing arguments are more than welcome.

All relevant opinions are welcome, but please, keep it civil. :)
 
I agree. I think we HAD to bail the banks out, we would be in a much worse spot than we are now if we didn't. But the fact that there weren't more prosecutions is a bit worry some. Also a structure change in their business plan should have been mandated. Also the rating agency's that gave our country a downgrade a few months ago, are the same that gave AAA to those housing loans, but we still give them credit and for some reason still are in business?

Although i do think (and many disagree) that people making 50k a year, buying a 400k house and taking trips to Hawaii off their second mortgage are also to blame. We offer guns to the public, but if someone commits a murder with a gun, is it the guns fault? The guns have safety's on them don't they?
 
The only thing I can agree with is 'I love Capitalism', what you speak of is not capitalism whatsoever, and its definitely not free markets.....When the government intervenes and enforces regulations thats not free or fair at all...Keep in mind, enforcing regulations and prosecuting criminals, BIG DIFFERENCE. You seem to love all the things that make us corrupt and not free. Pretty twisted. I totally disagree with you.
 
we didnt have to bail out anyone or anything, the market would have self corrected and we would go thru a few decades of crap and come out so much further ahead than where we are headed now.
 
jesus of Cannabis said:
we didnt have to bail out anyone or anything, the market would have self corrected and we would go thru a few decades of crap and come out so much further ahead than where we are headed now.
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So you would have rather sacrificed most of your investments for retirement rather than pay some more taxes?
 
deprave said:
The only thing I can agree with is 'I love Capitalism', what you speak of is not capitalism whatsoever, and its definitely not free markets.....When the government intervenes and enforces regulations thats not free or fair at all...Keep in mind, enforcing regulations and prosecuting criminals, BIG DIFFERENCE. You seem to love all the things that make us corrupt and not free. Pretty twisted. I totally disagree with you.
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by the time you "get the criminals" its too late. the damage has been done. stop it before it happens. big business must be regulated. we spent too much time as a country de-regulating when things were "good."
 
yep, correct, ya see i dont have much faith in my investments thats why i pulled them all a few years ago. This whole country can go to shit and i will be fine, i invested in land and last time i saw they werent making anymore.
 
you have to fix the problem you can't just throw money at it..bailouts will be needed agan and again...as long as we keep letting them get away with it bubble after bubble. Virtually nothing has been done to fix the problem. Free markets don't play favorites.

[video=youtube;Y_YxNG3nUUk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_YxNG3nUUk[/video]
 
deprave said:
you have to fix the problem you can't just throw money at it..bailouts will be needed agan and again...as long as we keep letting them get away with it bubble after bubble. Virtually nothing has been done to fix the problem. Free markets don't play favorites.

[video=youtube;Y_YxNG3nUUk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_YxNG3nUUk[/video]
Click to expand...

exactly free markets prey on people. free market ideas can work, but only to a certain degree. but i guess your making my point..........we had to bailout big business because we allowed them to prey on people. we all know money doesn't grow on trees and bailouts that can equal billions are unacceptable. however, free market can allow a company to build up to a huge degree. now what happens when they fail and more than half the country depends on their status?
 
UncleBuck said:
i agree.

also, i <3 vagina.
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Cochino!
Pig.gif
 
Johnny Retro said:
So you would have rather sacrificed most of your investments for retirement rather than pay some more taxes?
Click to expand...

You make the common mistake of thinking that by paying more taxes, everything will be fine. As soon as the progressives get higher tax rates and if the fantasy of more revenue actually came true, they would just spend more.

We don't need higher tax rates, we don't need more revenue, we take in far more than we should be spending. The problem is progressives on both sides of the aisle have increased the size of government by about 40% since 2001 and the population sure as hell didn't grow by 40%.

We need to hack off about $2 trillion of the annual budget (after the Senate FINALLY creates a budget) and get to paying off the debt. Then we need to get down to the real business at hand, ending all the social programs that never should have been allowed in the first place. Yeah, ending them.
 
MuyLocoNC said:
You make the common mistake of thinking that by paying more taxes, everything will be fine. As soon as the progressives get higher tax rates and if the fantasy of more revenue actually came true, they would just spend more.

We don't need higher tax rates, we don't need more revenue, we take in far more than we should be spending. The problem is progressives on both sides of the aisle have increased the size of government by about 40% since 2001 and the population sure as hell didn't grow by 40%.

We need to hack off about $2 trillion of the annual budget (after the Senate FINALLY creates a budget) and get to paying off the debt. Then we need to get down to the real business at hand, ending all the social programs that never should have been allowed in the first place. Yeah, ending them.
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I agree we have a lot of spending to cut. I was making the point that I think we had to bail out the banks. I 100% agree on the social programs being eliminated.
 
tomahawk2406 said:
exactly free markets prey on people. free market ideas can work, but only to a certain degree. but i guess your making my point..........we had to bailout big business because we allowed them to prey on people. we all know money doesn't grow on trees and bailouts that can equal billions are unacceptable. however, free market can allow a company to build up to a huge degree. now what happens when they fail and more than half the country depends on their status?
Click to expand...

You cant let them prey on people. we HAD usury laws back before wheels were round. Bailouts are never the answer, and just because someone had stock in Chrysler is no reason to bail them out. If you don't know the fuckers are going under, you take the hit. Transparency in quarterly financials should be a felony that is prosectuted to the hilt if not complied with. Corporate Officers who drain the stock holders should go to prison like Madoff if they get caught, not slapped on the wrist and made to pay the stock holders back at pennies on the dollar. I don't see the whole country depending on a company. If Chrysler or GM were allowed to belly up, one of the Jap companies would have stepped in and picked up the pieces.
I learned my lesson on the stock market with the Enron fiasco. I divested my portfolio and bought land, gold and emeralds.



Johnny Retro said:
Maricon! :hump:
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Bugaron!!
jack-harer-356847-albums-fun-shit-picture1771984-bananahump.gif


LOL!!
 
Johnny Retro said:
I agree. I think we HAD to bail the banks out, we would be in a much worse spot than we are now if we didn't.

Insert by META: I never said that we had to bail the banks out (although i'm not necessarily disagreeing). I said that the banks are only somewhat at fault, because we have inefficient regulation. A bank is supposed to make money, while providing a service. They made money, and provided a service. The problem is in the system that allowed the banks to make decisions that, while predictable, were very detrimental to our economy.

We offer guns to the public, but if someone commits a murder with a gun, is it the guns fault? The guns have safety's on them don't they?
Click to expand...
Just because you can make an analogy between guns and loans, doesn't mean you should.

deprave said:
The only thing I can agree with is 'I love Capitalism', what you speak of is not capitalism whatsoever, and its definitely not free markets.....When the government intervenes and enforces regulations thats not free or fair at all...Keep in mind, enforcing regulations and prosecuting criminals, BIG DIFFERENCE. You seem to love all the things that make us corrupt and not free. Pretty twisted. I totally disagree with you.
Click to expand...

This is one of my two favorite comments so far. Thank you, deprave, for this opposing response. I look forward to having a civil back-and-forth with you. To respond to your post, I most certainly do speak of capitalism. Capitalism is not necessarily an unregulated, lawless market. Capitalism is a complex term that can only easily be explained with a simplified definition. A regulated free market economy is still a free market economy. Would you disagree with me when i say that it is useful for the government to intervene in a case of negative externality? That would still be regulation/legislation/taxation.

jesus of Cannabis said:
we didnt have to bail out anyone or anything, the market would have self corrected and we would go thru a few decades of crap and come out so much further ahead than where we are headed now.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but how can we be sure? Do you really want to spend a few decades with a seriously hampered world economy?

deprave said:
you have to fix the problem you can't just throw money at it..bailouts will be needed agan and again...as long as we keep letting them get away with it bubble after bubble. Virtually nothing has been done to fix the problem. Free markets don't play favorites.
Click to expand...

Based on the comments that i bolded, I don't think we disagree completely. Im just curious what you think the problem actually is. I underlined one other sentence that interested me; Favorites between who? Also, I found the video very interesting, although I would be more confident in its accuracy if it contained more than a single, highly specific source. I havent written the video off as fiction, nor do I trust it as fact. I need to see additional sources to be swayed either way.

Sorry for the text block.
 
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