If Tax cuts create jobs

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
What are you talking about Rob? there are negative portions of every transaction, there are bad things that come with every action, why are you expecting things to be different than that? Cause they never will be. Every hot dog you eat comes with a bit of heart attack, every breath you take comes with the understanding that it is one less you will ever take.


Life is like that.
The most negative "transaction" is the one that involves force though right? For instance when two parties willingly make an exchange you have free interaction....a consensual exchange. When one party imposes its will on another...what do you have? Who uses the business model where one party is powerless to withdraw from the interaction ? Rapists, mafia, thieves, government....
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Pot...meet kettle. I think in the game of insult and snide comments, you are still far ahead.

Where I appear to be ahead of you is addressing the questions and using consistent arguments.
whiny
crying
little bitch

Sorry society isnt ala carte
Lots of shit you have taken advantage of I wouldnt want to pay for either
But guess what
I do anyways
Do you even have a job?
Who would hire you?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
whiny
crying
little bitch

Sorry society isnt ala carte
Lots of shit you have taken advantage of I wouldnt want to pay for either
But guess what
I do anyways
Do you even have a job?
Who would hire you?
Translation : I can't answer your questions. I don't support the war on drugs, but I'm gonna keep paying for it because um um um um
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
If the "option" of having a business insists that there will be taxes involved, like it or not...how does that imply voluntarily agreeing to the tax?
as you conceded, no one forced them to start the business. since they were never forced to start a business, they were never forced to go along with anything that is entailed in starting the business, such as paying taxes.

your entire philosophy fails before it even begins. it is based on a false premise. what don't you get about this?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Who uses the business model where one party is powerless to withdraw from the interaction ?
OMFG so you are forced to keep signing W4s that you voluntarily signed? you are forced to keep running a business that you voluntarily chose to start?

rethink your entire philosophy and start again.
 

beenthere

New Member
The question is appropriate. Where are the jobs. I know Beenthere that you and I trade platitudes. Mine is "Obama's plans have been thwarted by an obstructionist congress" while yours is "job killing bureaucratic regulations and taxes" The difference is that I can actually prove my assertions wherupon you cannot.
So the argument is settled because you claim that you CAN prove your assertions? LOL Then my answer to you is, I can prove my assertions whereupon you cannot!

Kindly show me 5 major job killing regulations and the measured effects of those regulations on the jobs you claim were jetisoned or failed to materialize.
With all due respect canndo, don't you think you're being a bit presumptuous not backing up your own claim while giving me an assignment! LOL

Oh, and about Ohio? Why did Ohio shut down it's early voting provisions? You never did answer that.
Already gave you my answer bro, it was the same answer you gave me, "I don't know." You remember?
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
OMFG so you are forced to keep signing W4s that you voluntarily signed? you are forced to keep running a business that you voluntarily chose to start?

rethink your entire philosophy and start again.
UB, it's only truly voluntary if there is no pressure. At my last job, no sign = no hire. Of course i signed. Would I have preferred not to? (...) cn
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Hey Rob Boy

What do you do for a living?

Crying about the injustice of life dont pay much that's for sure

Doesnt get taxed much either
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
UB, it's only truly voluntary if there is no pressure. At my last job, no sign = no hire. Of course i signed. Would I have preferred not to? (...) cn
i disagree. true that no sign = no hire, but there are plenty of other options for those who do not wish to foot the costs of society. the tradeoff is that you will not get as many of the benefits, either.

everything in life is a tradeoff. we gave up our ability to climb trees as effectively so that we could walk the plains instead. in the case of human evolution, the benefit outweighed the cost.

every single decision we make every single moment of every single day is a cost/benefit analysis if you look at it through the right lens.
 

beenthere

New Member
i disagree. true that no sign = no hire, but there are plenty of other options for those who do not wish to foot the costs of society. the tradeoff is that you will not get as many of the benefits, either.

everything in life is a tradeoff. we gave up our ability to climb trees as effectively so that we could walk the plains instead. in the case of human evolution, the benefit outweighed the cost.

every single decision we make every single moment of every single day is a cost/benefit analysis if you look at it through the right lens.
Why the hell are you talking in riddles? Are you afraid to take a firm stand or what, are you saying that signing a W4 is voluntary, therefore paying taxes is voluntary?
Frame your argument clearly and take a stand.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
i disagree. true that no sign = no hire, but there are plenty of other options for those who do not wish to foot the costs of society. the tradeoff is that you will not get as many of the benefits, either.

everything in life is a tradeoff. we gave up our ability to climb trees as effectively so that we could walk the plains instead. in the case of human evolution, the benefit outweighed the cost.

every single decision we make every single moment of every single day is a cost/benefit analysis if you look at it through the right lens.
OK ... within my profession, what would my options have been? Show me that it really is voluntary, and that you're not engaging in outright jesuitry. Sometimes, UB, It looks to me like your willingness to ride a position into the permafrost reveals a certain cervical inflexibility. cn

 

InCognition

Active Member
"Tax cuts" will only create jobs once they remove socialistic-entitlement programs such as SS, welfare, dss, medicare, government-pensions, etc, and all of these program's affiliated tax burdens on society.

Until then, they can cut taxes all they want. America is over-taxed to begin with. Cutting taxes that are too high to begin with, isn't cutting taxes, it's just making high taxes a little less high.

It's not "Merica, fuck yea!" anymore, it's "Merica, fucked!".
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Why the hell are you talking in riddles? Are you afraid to take a firm stand or what, are you saying that signing a W4 is voluntary, therefore paying taxes is voluntary?
Frame your argument clearly and take a stand.
how you don't get the firmness of my position on this is beyond me.

but then again, you think nixon was a communist.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
OK ... within my profession, what would my options have been? Show me that it really is voluntary, and that you're not engaging in outright jesuitry. Sometimes, UB, It looks to me like your willingness to ride a position into the permafrost reveals a certain cervical inflexibility. cn

ya mean, the profession you voluntarily chose? did you grow up in communist russia where they assigned you a profession?

sorry, caanabineer. my stance here is firm. no one is ever forced to pay taxes.
 

InCognition

Active Member
i disagree. true that no sign = no hire, but there are plenty of other options for those who do not wish to foot the costs of society. the tradeoff is that you will not get as many of the benefits, either.

everything in life is a tradeoff. we gave up our ability to climb trees as effectively so that we could walk the plains instead. in the case of human evolution, the benefit outweighed the cost.

every single decision we make every single moment of every single day is a cost/benefit analysis if you look at it through the right lens.
"Everything in life is a trade-off"... sure it is, until a government forces it's people to make a trade-off for the benefit of others, who would never have been able to reap the rewards otherwise.

Government no longer gives people the option to receive less benefits. They make you pay for those benefits whether you want to receive them or not, even though the risk comes at one's own monetary expense, if they had actually been able to opt-out of such benefits.

For you to comment on "looking at most things through the right lens", is truly hilarious.

You seem to look at things based on how "right-to-do" or how "good" they are, rather than if they actually work properly on a fundamental level, in regards to such systems being able to exist in the first place. Not only exist, but exist in an ethical fashion.


Example:

You presumably agree with SS. SS is a fundamentally flawed system, based off erroneous math, that was created with a complete lack of due-diligence.

Though SS to you is "right", or tries to accomplish "good" while you're looking at it through your "right lens", you're lens is actually just very dirty.

There is no justification under the sun that one could possibly use, in regards to defending the government's ability to take one's money, in order to save for that person's, and/or another's retirement. The government in this situation likes to use the justification that "well, since you guys can't save for your retirement, we'll do it for you". Not only is that not a justification, it's simply not ethical on that same basis. It provides a foundation of enabling, for those who are irresponsible or half-witted enough, not to save for their own retirement, and it ultimately comes directly off the backs of those who are fiscally responsible. This is a benefit to some, while resulting in a complete, or potential loss to others.

The cost/benefit analysis of SS is mathematically proven to be erroneous when sided with the aspect of being a "benefit". In fact the cost would be lesser, and the benefit more, if SS did not exist. Some would of course lose in such a situation, but that loss would come as the direct result of those who brought upon such a loss to themselves, through their own personal conduct. Thus it's not actually a true loss. With proper logic, you absolutely do not make another person, or group of people, subsidize another human-being's conduct.

Do you see why you're lens is dirty? I'm sure you don't, because it seems as long as it's for the "right" reason, you're dirty lens is crystal clear to you. Unfortunately the world and it's affiliated economies are not sustainable this way. Your cost/benefit equations are undeniably off as well.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
it ultimately comes directly off the backs of those who are fiscally responsible.
not true in the least until they raise the cap, which i am all for, right along with raising the age.

until they raise the cap, we pretty much all pay in equally and receive equally. enough to keep grandma from eating cat food at least.

Do you see why you're lens is dirty?
*your

lol. you want us to believe you graduated top of your law class, yet have to hide your grow from mommy and daddy and can't spell simple shit correctly. so much fail.

ss is perfectly sustainable with a few tweaks. your value system is fucked up. you have stated that it is "righteous" to watch poor people die. seriously dude, get out of the insufferable ayn rand phase.
 

InCognition

Active Member
not true in the least until they raise the cap, which i am all for, right along with raising the age.

until they raise the cap, we pretty much all pay in equally and receive equally. enough to keep grandma from eating cat food at least.
So you're unable to see how raising the cap & age, is not robbery and exploitation? Of course you're not. This explains why you're an ignoramus of the utmost degree.

A raise on the cap & age just demonstrates a lack of due-diligence committed when establishing SS. This lack of due diligence just gave millions of baby-boomers the exclusive right to retire earlier off the backs of the generation below them. It's quite a simple concept to grasp. Unfortunately you're either unable to grasp such a concept based off sheer ignorance, or simply do not want to acknowledge the exploitation of such alterations in SS, based on what's stated above.


ss is perfectly sustainable with a few tweaks. your value system is fucked up. you have stated that it is "righteous" to watch poor people die. seriously dude, get out of the insufferable ayn rand phase.
SS is not sustainable period. You've already established above, as to your fiscal obliviousness regarding anything to do with money what so ever. In your delusional world, you just simply make a major fucking adjustment to the retirement age and cap, and it's all the sudden "A-OK" again. When you have to rob people based off the exploitation of a system, there is nothing "fixable" or "ok" about that system.

My value system is logical. Yours however operates off fundamentals pertaining to "well if it's the right thing to do, then fuck how it actually works". Again, this is why your lens is very dirty. Your mind is in some sort of utopian paradigm, and that's simply not the way the world nor the economy works, nor should it ever work that way, on the premise of breaking basic ethical principles, that you apparently lack in understanding to the slightest degree.

I know what I've stated, and it's stated with simple logic. It's not stated with "well it's the right thing to do, so fuck how it works".

ss is perfectly sustainable with a few tweaks. your value system is fucked up. you have stated that it is "righteous" to watch poor people die. seriously dude, get out of the insufferable ayn rand phase.
Again, thanks for the typo corrections.

Remember how I was telling you you're a hypocrite for such corrections? Well, as you see above you did not use capital letters properly. Seriously dude, get out of the insufferable "English teacher" phase... I'm still smarter than you, no matter how many times you correct my typos. LOL.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Why the hell are you talking in riddles? Are you afraid to take a firm stand or what, are you saying that signing a W4 is voluntary, therefore paying taxes is voluntary?
Frame your argument clearly and take a stand.


Now Beenthere, on the one hand you expect folks to take a stand, but when they do you accuse them of being partisan for taking that stand. i have found that conservatives have a tough time with high minded ambivalence. They are uncomfortable with umnanswered questions or what they term as wishy washy statements where leftists, realizing that there may be far more to a situation than they comprehend are capable of not arriving at a set conclusion.

It's a rightist thing, they can't help it, they have trouble holding two disparate things in their mind at the same time.
 
Top