i’ll not buy another led until..

i’d be willing to pay 10-20% extra to cover the build and shipping costs of bigger heatsinks

  • yes

    Votes: 14 46.7%

  • no

    Votes: 16 53.3%
  • Total voters
    30
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
Moflow said:
@crimsonecho the FOTOP boards talked about earlier ran pretty cool temps without heatsink.
The diodes on them are more spread out than QB288s.
I'm still using them.

Diy FOTOP grow board 280x900x2.0mm (L29.52"xW9.18")

I got these to test. Grow Board 280x900x2.0mm (L29.52"xW9.18") , 3.0/W conductivity,2OZ, 16S50P, 129.6-372W, 43.2-49.6V, 800pcs Samsung 561C s6 leds. They cost an "O" for 2 boards....... £200. Awaiting HLG 320H 48A from TME, cost a "q" ....£80 In my area I can use these as a side wall of...
www.rollitup.org

Here's quality heatsinks I got for 2ft strips a few years ago from diyleduk. I believe he had 4ft ones too.
They fit any 2ft strip.
View attachment 5140414View attachment 5140415
Click to expand...
i can see those boards running cool with that diode placement especially when underdriven. how many watts each board pushes in your application?

Moflow said:
Place a bit of black tape on aluminium and take ir reading
Click to expand...
yeah i heard that but dont have black tape atm but i really feel zero heat when i touch it either i just feel the coldness of metal if that makes sense to you :)

would you say taking an ir reading directly off the cobs the way i did it would give a ballpark reading?
 
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
crimsonecho said:
wow all those fans!

have you used tower fans blowing from up top? after all this terrible thermal management talk i decided to hang my 2 tower fans horizontally from the top bars of the tent and then i did, it seems like they’re working but i just dont know how well they’ll work like that.

i once hanged a mid sized table top fan upside down from the top bars and it started to drip oil after a while and then stopped oscillating at one point etc. so i dont except these tower fans to oscillate but just blow air gently but i also dont wanna deal with any leakage from the motors and shit.
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Your better off mounting a 6" clip fan at canopy level blowing up at the board, pushing the warm air into the exhaust.

I was going to reply before when you kept mentioning sacrificing height for fans every time I mentioned a $10 fan, but a fan at canopy level blowing up is far more effective than blowing down from the top.
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
Your better off mounting a 6" clip fan at canopy level blowing up at the board, pushing the warm air into the exhaust.

I was going to reply before when you kept mentioning sacrificing height for fans every time I mentioned a $10 fan, but a fan at canopy level blowing up is far more effective than blowing down from the top.
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again i dont say putting up fans are not ineffective in dispersing heat what i’m saying is its not without moving parts anymore, not cooled passively either youre actively cooling it. its no different than cheap ass pc fans they are way more reliable than clip on fans on top of that. my 18 pc fans ran 4 years 24/7 without a single failure.

also you can put fans blowing upwards at the canopy level of course there are many ways to do it but there is always sacrificed space. this way at least the tower fans dont take up more space than the fan and the carbon filter they hang at about the same height so its less wasted space at least.
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
hey @Moflow would you say a black marker could do the job as well? if i color a part of it with black marker would that give me more accurate readings? is it just about the color?
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
natureboygrower said:
I use the little square fans used in homes to move woodstove heat. I bought 3 or 4 and only one has failed over 3 years of 24/7 use.
Click to expand...
yes seems like the best way to run most of these no moving parts passively cooled fixtures is driving them at 50% and/or adding moving parts to disperse the heat. bad designs imo.
 
Moflow

Moflow

Well-Known Member
crimsonecho said:
how many watts each board pushes in your application?
Click to expand...
~ 150 watts per board.
I'm not sure why you'd take temperature on cobs on diodes themselves?
I ran cxb3590s at 50 watts on those arctic alpine heatsinks with fans and remember a fan stoppng and the aluminium heatsink was roasting hot, cob was fine tho.
I also got some R2T boards with 516? diodes on decent heatsinks from Future Eden leds.
s-l1600.jpg
I run every light I have soft apart from a 278 watt one on full blast in a 4 x 4.
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
Moflow said:
~ 150 watts per board.
I'm not sure why you'd take temperature on cobs on diodes themselves?
I ran cxb3590s at 50 watts on those arctic alpine heatsinks with fans and remember a fan stoppng and the aluminium heatsink was roasting hot, cob was fine tho.
I also got some R2T boards with 516? diodes on decent heatsinks from Future Eden leds.
View attachment 5140440
I run every light I have soft apart from a 278 watt one on full blast in a 4 x 4.
Click to expand...
so each board at 150w. they’re 90cm long and 28cm wide right? so basically the bar type fixtures out there do the same 90cm long but at like 1/3 the width and push a 100w for each board or something. i dont see the advantage of these plug and play bars over yours. theyre not individually adjustable or whatever so whats the point i dont know..

there is no specific reason why i want to take readings directly off the cobs just wanted to see if i could. also like the spectrum and lm/w values for these cobs in the specsheet are taken at 85C so maybe it would be helpful to determine the q90 and lm/w output etc if i know the temps of the actual cobs.
 
Rahz

Rahz

Well-Known Member
crimsonecho said:
..they make these bar type lights or whatever with properly overbuilt heatsinks. i recently watched a migro video where he evaluated different lights based on their par loss including his own and concluded that in 4 years they will be at 80% or something.

so you gotta change out your fixtures every 4 years if driving at 100% and heatsinks are getting above 40-45C. thats just shit because with proper cooling these leds should be going solid for at least twice that.

as a customer i want to help push the companies to put proper cooling systems to their fixtures. overbuild this shit so it stays barely a couple of degrees warmer than the ambient temps. the cheapest part of these fixtures is the aluminium so why not build it better with bigger heatsinks.

i’m not even gonna get into the active cooling because it works so so well but less moving parts is somehow a selling point for people. i had the cheapest shittiest 12v pc fans on my cob diy fixture and not a single one failed in 4 years. these can be built to enable easy repairs to change out the fans with new ones periodically even if they havent failed yet but whatever.

if you’re gonna build a light with no moving parts at least do it correctly with serious bulk to dissipate the heat properly @MarsHydrofactory @MedicGrow @Stephenj37826

fell free to tag any other company please these are the only ones i know which advertise on riu
Click to expand...
I read a couple pages. I have 5x 6 year old lamps with fans and oversized extruded sinks, still running strong. I did replace one of the HLGs recently. There's nowhere on the sinks I can touch and feel warmth, even right up near the cobs. All the fans and fan drivers still running, surprisingly. That's 12 fans/drivers still working after 6 years of daily use. I haven't done par tests but I'm still pulling the same from them.

Pin fins can't do that, but they can run cobs within spec. My preference is 50w on 150mm pin fin but I have used 133mm in the same configuration. Whether I will pay for that in the long run I'm not sure.

Anyway, you can DIY so why buy branded lamps?
 
DrOgkush

DrOgkush

Well-Known Member
I believe vivosun already makes a light with built in fan. Also. I’m with everyone else on the whole “just add a fan or under drive”.
I use that heat to help with humidity and vpd. During summer. Remove driver and place else where. But if your complaining about the heat. Your complaining about the wrong part. Shouldn be about having air cooled leds. But why the company’s are making lights that SHOULD NOT be ran at 100%. With my light running 110 or less at 75% or less. Then jumping to 145-150 after 100% for 20 min. That alone tells me that that driver is working a lot harder than it should be. And just cooling is not going to help. Might help a tiny bit with life expectancy. But for the most part. Running your lights @80% is your best bet for lifespan and efficiency. Only using fans to move the air. Not Necessarily cool as much.
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
DrOgkush said:
I believe vivosun already makes a light with built in fan. Also. I’m with everyone else on the whole “just add a fan or under drive”.
I use that heat to help with humidity and vpd. During summer. Remove driver and place else where. But if your complaining about the heat. Your complaining about the wrong part. Shouldn be about having air cooled leds. But why the company’s are making lights that SHOULD NOT be ran at 100%. With my light running 110 or less at 75% or less. Then jumping to 145-150 after 100% for 20 min. That alone tells me that that driver is working a lot harder than it should be. And just cooling is not going to help. Might help a tiny bit with life expectancy. But for the most part. Running your lights @80% is your best bet for lifespan and efficiency. Only using fans to move the air. Not Necessarily cool as much.
Click to expand...
LOL yes! Vivosun came here like a month ago with this thread that was like "Prepare yourself for the future of LED lighting" or something like that, but then they never came back to tell us what we were preparing ourselves for. Turns out it's just a little 100 watt board with a computer fan built into the middle of it, for $250.
 
DrOgkush

DrOgkush

Well-Known Member
Rurumo said:
LOL yes! Vivosun came here like a month ago with this thread that was like "Prepare yourself for the future of LED lighting" or something like that, but then they never came back to tell us what we were preparing ourselves for. Turns out it's just a little 100 watt board with a computer fan built into the middle of it, for $250.
Click to expand...
Yeah. That light.
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
Rahz said:
I read a couple pages. I have 5x 6 year old lamps with fans and oversized extruded sinks, still running strong. I did replace one of the HLGs recently. There's nowhere on the sinks I can touch and feel warmth, even right up near the cobs. All the fans and fan drivers still running, surprisingly. That's 12 fans/drivers still working after 6 years of daily use. I haven't done par tests but I'm still pulling the same from them.

Pin fins can't do that, but they can run cobs within spec. My preference is 50w on 150mm pin fin but I have used 133mm in the same configuration. Whether I will pay for that in the long run I'm not sure.

Anyway, you can DIY so why buy branded lamps?
Click to expand...
not gonna go freak out on you for not reading all 15 pages lol but i have my reason for not diying and i list them on the last couple of pages.

lusidghost said:
This is my HLG, and it isn't even turned all the way up.
View attachment 5140561
Click to expand...
crazy fucking hot! dont touch that shit bare handed maybe an oven mitt?

DrOgkush said:
I believe vivosun already makes a light with built in fan. Also. I’m with everyone else on the whole “just add a fan or under drive”.
I use that heat to help with humidity and vpd. During summer. Remove driver and place else where. But if your complaining about the heat. Your complaining about the wrong part. Shouldn be about having air cooled leds. But why the company’s are making lights that SHOULD NOT be ran at 100%. With my light running 110 or less at 75% or less. Then jumping to 145-150 after 100% for 20 min. That alone tells me that that driver is working a lot harder than it should be. And just cooling is not going to help. Might help a tiny bit with life expectancy. But for the most part. Running your lights @80% is your best bet for lifespan and efficiency. Only using fans to move the air. Not Necessarily cool as much.
Click to expand...
yeah

crimsonecho said:
yeah probably there is some nice stuff maybe in the premium range but even in that range most run too hot for my preferences like the lumatek zeus pro 1000w co2 samseedwell posted a couple of pages back.

i could buy something like that and run it at 600w but then i didnt really buy a 1000w of light which sucks.
Click to expand...
heat is not gonna disappear because of bigger heatsinks by the way, btu per btu the output is the same. you can still put a fan on it to blow it at your canopy but in this case it would be your own choice. heat is not going anywhere unless you change the wattage.

and i’m basically asking why these companies are pushing lights that should not be run at 100% in this thread. you know what i’d understand kinda sorta? if a 700w mars light was marketed as 550 or something and had a switch on it that said overdrive to hit 700. that way people would know for sure that they’re overdriving their shit but then they would be selling a 550w for 800 bucks (?) and thats not as cheap as selling a 700w for 800 :)

i’m definitely questioning the integrity of these companies all through this thread man.

Rurumo said:
LOL yes! Vivosun came here like a month ago with this thread that was like "Prepare yourself for the future of LED lighting" or something like that, but then they never came back to tell us what we were preparing ourselves for. Turns out it's just a little 100 watt board with a computer fan built into the middle of it, for $250.
Click to expand...
havent seen it but its kinda better than pointing a fan at it for me. dedicated fans are ok in my book but the price is a little too much if it only does that.
 
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