Inda-gro Induction...

60% RH is pretty good, but i'd try to get it down to 75F or so.

given those numbers, i don't suspect VPD so much (but still i suggest that you read up on it )..

why not go ahead with a lil epsom salts then? i've seen people say up to 1 tsp/gal is good, and others say 1 tbsp/gal is good. i have generally opted for the more conservative, and so i use 1tsp/gal and my maximum to add. that's theoretical tho, as i have only ever had to add up to 3/4tsp/gal. you could also consider mixing some up (prolly 1/4tsp/gal) with a good surfactant like Coco-Wet, and give them a lil taste on the leaves. if you do, remember foliars are best under the leaves, not on top.

just make sure that you make sure that the epsom salt crystals get all dissolved in the water before you use it. when i've used it, i just added it in the cool water and let it sit for 10 min or so, then shake it well.

Ya i am working the temps down. I have a max fan hooked up to my carbon filter and its only on setting one now, just increased the interval it runs for when i put the inda in cus my temps were like 68-65 before. Will def read up more on vpd, althpugh the concept of plants repositioning leaves for better light is not to foreign to me would like to know more.
As far as the mg problem i think i am going to opt for the foliar method, was gonna give em a neem oil spray this morning but an epsom spray seems more fitting atm. As far as surfactant i have dyna gro portekt i mix with the neem as surfactant that ok? If not is dish soap ok cus I do not have any coco wet and i plan on getting the epsom salts at walgreens, should be ok as long as i do not get the lavender scented ones right?

natro.hydro said:

Ya i am working the temps down. I have a max fan hooked up to my carbon filter and its only on setting one now, just increased the interval it runs for when i put the inda in cus my temps were like 68-65 before. Will def read up more on vpd, althpugh the concept of plants repositioning leaves for better light is not to foreign to me would like to know more.
As far as the mg problem i think i am going to opt for the foliar method, was gonna give em a neem oil spray this morning but an epsom spray seems more fitting atm. As far as surfactant i have dyna gro portekt i mix with the neem as surfactant that ok? If not is dish soap ok cus I do not have any coco wet and i plan on getting the epsom salts at walgreens, should be ok as long as i do not get the lavender scented ones right?

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i'd suggest checking out a TMP-DNe from C.A.P. that plus a speed controller will take all of the guess work out of your temp control. set the day/night temps on the TMP, and use the speed controller to adjust fan speed (rate of temperature change).

as far as when plants seek increased light, that is called Shade Avoidance Syndrome, and is controlled by the phytochrome family of pigments (there's something like 5 different phytochromes....).

that Pro-Tekt is not a surfactant; it's a 0-0-3 +7% silica. i would suggest using a surfactant any time you apply a foliar, as it will help the foliar spread on the leaf surface and stay wet longer. in my experience you can also use Sledge Hammer from Bush Doctor. even tho they call it a flush, the saponins from the yucca are a natural surfactant. i don't suggest using dish soap for this purpose cuz those usually have dyes, perfumes, as Phosphates that can eff up your plants nutrition. also, i suggest to not foliar in bloom. not just a matter of potential for bud rot and stuff, but also residues upon the meds.

for the Epsom Salts, you are correct, get the unscented one. if you make sure that the package also has it listed as a laxative, that indicates that you have the food grade one. thats what you want.

Spliff now you are confusing me buddy lol. When i bought the dyna gro neem oil i was told to grab the pro-tekt, even says on the neem to grab that stuff. But it isn't a surfactant, so I should be adding some kind of yucca extract with pro tekt/neem as a surfactant in addition too?
And as far as the magnesium I just need to be more familiar with my nutes, went to water them today and took a gander at my ff grow big that i should have started last week and it has mg in it.... Was trying to tread on the light side this grow and stray from the schedule a lil, lesson learned.

Hopefully problem solved, opened the side flaps of my tent and put another small air king in too blow on them and that got my temps down to 75. My NYPD has had some leaves starting to flake off the upper green part. The whole leaf is not dieing just the top part with the chlorophyll, idk the exact term for this so I am having a hard time diagnosing what it is. Hoping just a symptom of the mg since its the only plant doing it and only like 2 leaves not even same node.. Will post a pic of it tuesday if it gets worse. Thanx for the help spliff I know this isn't the exact thread for these kind of questions so i may end up pming you if thats cool, assuming the problem persists. If you do not have time its cool, seem to have your hands pretty full with that pontoon grow, props on that so far too.

I use a couple drops of neem, at most 1/4 tsp per quart water, a drop of dish soap for emulsifier, 0.75 tsp epsom salt per quart water. Do not use too strong of neem. Its basically an oil and too much can clog the stomatas and sufficate the plant. Cause stress, stunt growth and / or cause hermie

I do neem seperate from espom. I use epsom salt with just water or seaweed / kelp solution spray.

If mg def. Tips and edges will be yellow. Too much mg can cause potassium lock out and in turn cause cal def and stunt root growth.


Edit:

You can also use epsom salt in a compost tea and use that in a spray.

If you are a using soil, feeding guano tea can do wonders for deficiency's. I always give mine a gauno tea in the 6th week of flower and a compost tea 2 to 4 times through out flower and veg. I use my own recipe for super soil (variation on subcools recipe) and top dress dry nutes. The base and amounts with subcool's I equate to the ingredients that I substitute. It changes from batch to batch depending on what nutes I have in stock and how much loot I have at that time.

So this is what I ended up with



2 oz of the bigger stuff.
2.3 oz of the med.
3.2 oz of the small stuff.

Next time I will cut out all of the under growth to get rid of the small shit.

I also started some oil from the trim that I hope makes some good pills. BadKat receipt from another site. Not sure of my dose yet, but maybe about 7 doses.
Also planning on taking 1 oz of the small stuff and soaking it in glycerin for a few months.

Can only get better from here.

Next grow.

I got 3 clones of Berry Bomb for I guy I know. He grows some awesome meds. Was hoping for C99, but hey beggars cant be choosier.

Started three of them instead of only one. I had another room ready to do two different grows, minus a light, but the impending sequester has me thinking Ill be short on cash for some time.

Well, I can use it for a dry room I guess.


One of the clones had two tops, so Im going to spread them out to the four corners of the screen.

I raised my screen up this time to give me room to work. This time, if it is not above the screen when I go 12/12, it is gone.

OF and LW from Fox Farms to start. Will be feeding Earth Juice in a few weeks.

Loonquawl said:

Next grow.

I got 3 clones of Berry Bomb for I guy I know. He grows some awesome meds. Was hoping for C99, but hey beggars cant be choosier.

Started three of them instead of only one. I had another room ready to do two different grows, minus a light, but the impending sequester has me thinking Ill be short on cash for some time.
View attachment 2542608
Well, I can use it for a dry room I guess.

View attachment 2542610View attachment 2542611View attachment 2542612
One of the clones had two tops, so Im going to spread them out to the four corners of the screen.

I raised my screen up this time to give me room to work. This time, if it is not above the screen when I go 12/12, it is gone.

OF and LW from Fox Farms to start. Will be feeding Earth Juice in a few weeks.

Click to expand...

nice updates!

first thing i wanted to mention upon seeing the new ladies is that i would not have put them in the same pot like that, but rather would have given each one of them a separate pot like that. that way you could also spread them out a little under the screen and that would help them to be able to maintain body symmetry more while they fill the screen out faster.

if they are still somewhat fresh to the pot, you could consider taking them out (carefully) and doing them up solid in their own digs.

they DO look good, however. i'm just thinking forward for them, and i know that you will later regret having done that to them.

believe me: you don't want those 3 fighting over nutes when they're half way thru bloom.

Loonquawl said:

So this is what I ended up with

View attachment 2542595

2 oz of the bigger stuff.
2.3 oz of the med.
3.2 oz of the small stuff.

Next time I will cut out all of the under growth to get rid of the small shit.

I also started some oil from the trim that I hope makes some good pills. BadKat receipt from another site. Not sure of my dose yet, but maybe about 7 doses.
Also planning on taking 1 oz of the small stuff and soaking it in glycerin for a few months.

Can only get better from here.

Click to expand...

7.5 ounces total for one plant on your first grow is a win in my opinion, especially considering that you know where those meds have been and you didn't have to donate at a club or otherwise for it. i'm sure your missus will be able to feel the love that you put into it.

i'd suggest to keep a journal of your progress, if you don't already have one started. that way you can refer back to whatever you have done in the past and see the results to compare with what you may be doing later. this is the only true way to make sure that for all your best efforts to improve, that you don't accidentally take yourself backwards.

so, may i ask how you are making your oil? is it an oil infused with cannabis (cooking or massage oil...?) or an oil extract (BHO or RSO) that you are making? i don't know the "BadKat" you mention, and don't feel like hunting... it's a big internets out there!

i agree that it can indeed get better from here, and i know that your next harvest will live up to that motto.

natro.hydro said:

Spliff now you are confusing me buddy lol. When i bought the dyna gro neem oil i was told to grab the pro-tekt, even says on the neem to grab that stuff. But it isn't a surfactant, so I should be adding some kind of yucca extract with pro tekt/neem as a surfactant in addition too?
And as far as the magnesium I just need to be more familiar with my nutes, went to water them today and took a gander at my ff grow big that i should have started last week and it has mg in it.... Was trying to tread on the light side this grow and stray from the schedule a lil, lesson learned.

Hopefully problem solved, opened the side flaps of my tent and put another small air king in too blow on them and that got my temps down to 75. My NYPD has had some leaves starting to flake off the upper green part. The whole leaf is not dieing just the top part with the chlorophyll, idk the exact term for this so I am having a hard time diagnosing what it is. Hoping just a symptom of the mg since its the only plant doing it and only like 2 leaves not even same node.. Will post a pic of it tuesday if it gets worse. Thanx for the help spliff I know this isn't the exact thread for these kind of questions so i may end up pming you if thats cool, assuming the problem persists. If you do not have time its cool, seem to have your hands pretty full with that pontoon grow, props on that so far too.

Click to expand...

sorry for the confusion, bro. allow me to try to clarify.

from Wikipedia:
Surfactants are compounds that lower the surface tension of a liquid, the interfacial tension between two liquids, or that between a liquid and a solid. Surfactants may act as detergents, wetting agents, emulsifiers, foaming agents, and dispersants.

neem oil is not a surfactant; additionally it is typically recommended to use a surfactant when mixing up neem for foliar application (further indicating that the neem oil is not a surfactant on it's own).
neem is an antifeedant, among other things, that can afford plants some protection from insects. pro-tekt is a silica product, that will increase the toughness of the plant's tissues and make it harder for the bugs to chew or pierce it.

the fact that Dyna-Gro will suggest on the neem package that you get the silica too, rather than just adding it to the neem product in the first place, is called Marketing. i'm not saying it's a bad idea to use both together, just that they didn't have to make it so that you now have two bottles to pay them for.

side note: i have never used silica as a foliar, just as part of the feed schedule. could you imagine BHO with silica (and neem oil) in it?

as for the FF nutes, i haven't ever used them, so i can't be too much help there... but it's been my experience that if a company puts out a feed schedule, it's best to stick to it 100% on the first run, so that a failure can't be blamed on your tinkering. also, it gives a baseline for what their suggestions result in.

on the topic of your NYPD... yes, please post a pic. it almost sounds like you are saying that the leaves are losing their cuticle, epidermis, and palisade mesophyll layer (where most of the chloroplasts are found). if it's only on 2 leaves, it's prolly nothing systemic, but rather something that those particular leaves were exposed to externally. perhaps excessive foliar on them or something?

i don't mind trying to help, yo, and i don't mind you asking for assistance here.

Splifferous said:

the fact that Dyna-Gro will suggest on the neem package that you get the silica too, rather than just adding it to the neem product in the first place, is called Marketing. i'm not saying it's a bad idea to use both together, just that they didn't have to make it so that you now have two bottles to pay them for.

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Gotta disagree. Pro-TeKt is popular by itself. Neem oil is popular by itself.

If someone wants to treat their roots to Pro-TeKt they probably don't want Neem mixed in.

When foliar spraying with Neem, all they are saying is oil and water don't mix, you need an emulsifier and Pro-Tekt will act as an emulsifier.

not trying to stir up stuff, just presenting my opinion on the matter is all...

if you look, i never said that those products don't work, or that they were a waste of money. i was just pointing out the marketing approach of how they use one to suggest the additional sale of the other.

i agree, those products are popular; and i know that stores that stock them sell a bunch. i just don't use them.

by the way, it's been my experience that watering neem into the root zone works better than spraying the plant with it.

If you are buyimg pro tekt to use as just an emulsifier. Then it is a waste of money. Dish soap does the same thing.

hyroot said:

If you are buyimg pro tekt to use as just an emulsifier. Then it is a waste of money. Dish soap does the same thing.

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I wanted a silicate additive too since I do not have anything with silica in it. Thought about silica blast but on the bottle of neem it says try pro-tekt or dish soap as an emulsifier. Opted for the protekt instead of dish soap cus i had a hard time finding unscented uncolored dish soap at the store and like spliff said prob not great too run bho with that stuff, even tho i give em a foliar of straight water between neem foliars. This also my first time foliar feeding anything other than water and it may be losing its place in my gardening routine and giving that neem soil drench a try.

Spliff i asked for your opinion and you gave it, much appreciated. Was gonna attach a pic of the neem bottle so you could check that but cant get it with my phone atm, same with the Nypd pic. But it does say in the instructions to mix pro tekt, dish soap or something else of your choosing as an emuslifier, not important since it looks like i am done foliar feeding. The nypd got better/ did not get any worse so no worries, prob right about it being environmental, culd have been overspraying but idk how aince the leaves are almost dry by the time i get them rearranged. Anywhoo thanx for ur help and will post a update pic for ya tomorrow or thursday.
And as far as the feeding i should have stuck to schedule but i effed em up pretty bad with light burn so i wanted to wait till one showed def. Unfortunately they all did right around the same time so i was caught with my pants down a lil. Just a yound guy still trying to work out my own method.
Havent mentioned the 420 pro in a sec and thats wht this thread, they are loving it at 20 in. no signs of stress from heat or spectrum change.

EDIT: K so I got home from work and can upload those pics now, on second thought I may not have let their little leaves dry out for long enough before sticking them back under the light after their first spray of neem. Through in a pic of the temp, humidity isn't right because I took the pic after having my tent open a while so all the humidity got out. They have definitely rebounded well though, between my last update and that first pic under the lights (I try to take a pic from same place to get a perspective of time changing, be awesome if I could put together a slideshow of stills of plant growth...) can def see they did not suffer much transplant shock as I was afraid of, wasn't the gentlest but they seem to like it a lil rough lol. Next time you see them they will be bending over for ya.

Splifferous said:

so, may i ask how you are making your oil? is it an oil infused with cannabis (cooking or massage oil...?) or an oil extract (BHO or RSO) that you are making? i don't know the "BadKat" you mention, and don't feel like hunting... it's a big internets out there!

Click to expand...

BadKittySmiles, or something like that, has a post on another site that has a lot of info and receipts.

I took around 20g of trim and put it in the oven @ 220 for 30 min. Soaked it in some everclear for a min or so. Strained and added 1/2 Tbs of Coconut oil. Vaped off the alcohol. Added 1/4 tsp of lecithin. Put it in the freezer over night. Put it back in the oven @ 220 for another 80 min. Let cool and put in a pill size 00.

She said it gave her more of a body high and took the pain away. Been a few hours now, wonder how long it will last?

Think I will keep the dose as is on this batch and fill the rest of the caps.

Ended up with 17 pills total.

BK says that if you freeze it for another 4hrs and heat it for 40min over and over the more of a body high it will give you. Anything over 3hrs of heat is couch lock. Has to do with bio-availability, the liver changing to 11-THC. Not sure of the science of it, but it seemed to workout.

Found this here BadKat's CannaPharm: Canna Caps, UV Reactive Glowing Hash Candy, Canna 'Bombs' & More - Page 16
Bottom of post 155 has a link to the receipt on the other site. Medical Grade Cannabis Concentrate.

ive heard, on this site, that the inda gro is the only induction company to work with. i hear they do fine, save a ton of money on juice, and have a huge life expectancy. i have a 1000 and a 600 sunmaster hps im using. but if i had known about these prior, id probably would have gone this route.

Gonna flip to 12/12 today on the Lemon OG & Skunk Kush today after 3 weeks of veg from clones. I'm just running this with the full line of H&G and hand watering 3 gal fabric pots.

Now that I can finally run the Pontoons for myself I'm looking to go to a larger tent or maybe break down and just build a room. We'll see. One thing for sure from what I've been seeing already that with the Pontoons these should be spread apart to at least a 48" on center. Oh yeah those 730's coming on at lights out is pretty trippy. Here's to hoping the gurlz bust out of there skirts!

Alright I'm all set to catch up to Spliff now. I think we should call this BUDWARS. These look like some kinda starship anyway.



Trippy shit just seeing day two where the leaves circled around the tent post and came back to the light. Hoping to see triches like Spliff's out this run. More to come...

man... you make it so hard not to open the 2nd Pontoon up and put it over the control plants... but alas, it is a personal need to see this side-by-side to the end.

and those ladies look hella proper! are you gonna thin out their undermuffs any?

also, what tent are you using (brand, size)? are the ceiling cross pieces 1-piece or 2-piece? what kind of flanges does it have for the ducting pass-thru? are the corners plastic? i really like how you can splay it open like that. mine does that too, and i love it...

That has been the best tent (4x6) I ever bought and I got it at a Kush Expo like 4 years. It was an off brand that at the time I had never heard of and they don't have any kind of branding anywhere on the tent but it looked well made and it only set me back $80. Sorry I can't help beyond that but if I had to pick a tent today I'd look at http://www.gorillagrowtent.com/ and maybe try to ebay it.

Next update I'll get the underside shots. They're thinned out and looking purty.

I have to complement you for sticking to your guns on a scientific analysis of the side by side. Thanks from everyone here who might have an interest in the outcome of this. If I had a second pontoon I'm not sure I could say I'd have the same self control.