Indoor Selective Breeding

D.Gotti

Active Member
I have read up on it. Thats why im asking. Please dont post in my threads anymore, your trolling. I will report you.

Im here to learn things i dont know and to share what i do know. Not to be told to look other places for answers. Some people are here to help others.....by sharing what they know.
 

D.Gotti

Active Member
Well why dont you post a link to this info? Maybe there is other stuff there i could learn. Like i said, im new to BREEDING. Im not an idiot i assure you. If you start at the beginning of this thread youll see nobody said fertilization was immediate until now. Im just trying not to pollinate all my plants, just one. So i know i can touch it with a brush and spray it and still get seeds and deactivate any pollen that could get to the other plants.

I did ask nicely for you to not post in my thread. Your only arguing with me, and thats not what im here for, They do that at ICmag.
 
Well why dont you post a link to this info? Maybe there is other stuff there i could learn. Like i said, im new to BREEDING. Im not an idiot i assure you. If you start at the beginning of this thread youll see nobody said fertilization was immediate until now. Im just trying not to pollinate all my plants, just one. So i know i can touch it with a brush and spray it and still get seeds and deactivate any pollen that could get to the other plants.

I did ask nicely for you to not post in my thread. Your only arguing with me, and thats not what im here for, They do that at ICmag.
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/20319-seed-production-tutorial.html Here is a link read and enjoy

Im not arguing with you.You said i was trolling which i found insulting as i was trying to find an answer to a question.
 

D.Gotti

Active Member
I was just trying to get and answer too, and you said im an idiot, im a fool, i dont know anything. You were about to start an arguement with another user for saying the stuff about the lower branches. Thats not what i started the thread for. He answered my question, and you said it was basic knowledge, and im an idiot. I asked you not to post and you did anyway.

It doesnt give that information in the link you gave me. If i missed it AGAIN, please tell me which post number it is. It belongs in post number 5.

YOU SHOULD RESEARCH BEFORE YOU INSULT PEOPLE! PLEASE DONT POST IN MY THREAD! <- Third time!
 
It doesnt give that information in the link you gave me. If i missed it AGAIN, please tell me which post number it is. It belongs in post number 5.

YOU SHOULD RESEARCH BEFORE YOU INSULT PEOPLE! PLEASE DONT POST IN MY THREAD! <- Third time!
Now honestly does this make sense you ask me to show you something and then you tell me not to post..Which one is it..Third time you did that..
 

D.Gotti

Active Member
I knew that male pollen plus female equals seeds. Maybe I wasnt clear enough for you. I wanted to know how long, until i can spray them with water and kill unused pollen. I dont want to touch it with a brush and immediately spray it and kill all the pollen, and not get any good seeds. I know in nature the pollen is caught by the pistils and falls down to the base to fertilize it. I wanted to know if this means i have to wait a minute, an hour, a day, before killing any remaining pollen. I couldnt find this anywhere, please stop telling me its common sense. Nothing about breeding is common sense to someone who has never done it. My writing implies that im a fool?!?!?
 

D.Gotti

Active Member
CultivationArt said its immediate. So i can have a brush in one hand and a spray bottle in the other and brush then spray immediately. Thats what i have been asking.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Im sure its just that in his opinion, the lower branches produce light fluffy buds incapable of producing fully developed beans.
That is only the case when people's setups rely on inadequate lighting that is incapable of supplying the lower portions of plants with the amount of light they need.

I am not advocating Rodelization, or "The Soma Method" of making feminized beans because it seems to pass on the hermi trait more than other methods of feminizing beans, but the guy still knows growing and check out the part that is underlined and in red where he explains where he pollinates his females.


The Rodelization technique - By Soma


Creating feminized cannabis seeds is an art. Just like art, there are a few different methods of application. I have written about some of my different methods of making seeds in previous HIGH TIMES articles. I have used gibberellic acid, pH stress, light stress, and fertilizer stress to force my female plants to make seeds. All of these methods are harsh on the plants, and some, like the gibberellic acid, are not organic. In my search for cleaner, more earth-friendly ways of working with the cannabis plant, I have found a new way to make feminized seeds. Feminized seeds occur as a result of stress, rather than genetics. All cannabis plants can and will make male flowers under stress. Certain strains like a higher pH, some a lower one. Some like a lot of food, some like much less. There is quite a lot of variety in marijuana genetics, and you can’t treat every plant the same way.

It takes many harvests before you really get to know a particular strain. Just like getting to know human friends, it takes time. I have grown the same strains for close to a decade, and am truly getting to know every nuance the different plants exhibit. I can recognize them from a distance. I must say that I get a lot of help from my friends, both in making seeds and in learning new and better ways of working with this sacred plant.

I named this new method "Rodelization," after a friend who helped me realize and make use of this way of creating female seeds. After growing crop after crop of the same plants in the same conditions, I noticed that if I flowered the plants 10-14 days longer than usual, they would develop male "bananas." A male banana is a very slight male flower on a female marijuana plant that is formed because of stress. Usually they do not let out any pollen early enough to make seeds, but they sometimes do. They are a built-in safety factor so that in case of severe conditions, the plant can make sure the species is furthered.

To me, a male banana is quite a beautiful thing. It has the potential of making all female seeds. Many growers out there have male-banana phobia. They see one and have heart palpitations, they want to cut down the entire crop, or at the very least take tweezers and pluck the little yellow emergency devices out. I call them "emergency devices" because they emerge at times of stress.

In the Rodelization method, the male banana is very valuable. After growing your female plants 10-14 days longer than usual, hang them up to dry, then carefully take them off the drying lines and inspect for bananas. Each and every banana should be removed, and placed in a small bag labeled very accurately. These sealed bags can be placed in the fridge for one or two months and still remain potent.

For the next phase, you need to have a separate crop that’s already 2 1/2 weeks into flowering. Take your sealed bags of pollen out of the fridge, and proceed to impregnate your new crop of females. To do this, you must first match the female plant and the pollen from the same strain in the previous crop. Shut all the fans in the growroom down. Then take a very fine paintbrush, dip it in the bag of pollen, and paint it on the female flower. Do this to each different strain you have growing together. I have done it with up to 10 different kinds in the same room with great success.

I use the lower flowers to make seeds, leaving the top colas seedless for smoking.and lets you have great-quality smoke at the same time you make your female seeds. This method takes time (two crops), but is completely organic, If you’re one of those growers who’s never grown seeds for fear of not having something good to smoke, you will love this method.

You can also use this pollen to make new female crosses by cross-pollinating. The older females with the male bananas can be brought into the room with the younger, unpollinated females after they are three weeks into flowering. Turn all of the circulation fans on high, and the little bits of pollen will proceed to make it around the room. Do this for several days. Six to seven weeks later, you will have ripe 100% feminized seeds; not nearly as many as a male plant would make, but enough to start over somewhere else with the same genetics.

As a farmer who has been forced to move his genetics far away from where they started, I know very well the value of seeds. My friend Adam from ThSeeds in Amsterdam has a motto that I love to borrow these days: Drop seeds not bombs.​

 

Brick Top

New Member
Not to sound like a ass but if you read up on this before asking you would know this.
Why do you think people remove the males before they bust open.Because once pollen touches a female she will begin to make seeds..

It is actually a little more detailed than that. For pollination to occur male pollen has to land on/be applied too/be placed on female pistils, not just anywhere on a female plant.

Each individual calyx is an individual cannabis plant flower. Most people consider an entire bud to be an individual flower, but buds are made up of clusters of large numbers of individual female flowers, the calyx. Each calyx has it's own pistils and any where pollen does not land/is not applied, is not touched by will not produce a seed.

It is not as if pollen touching a female plant anywhere it then is absorbed and transmitted throughout the entire plant resulting in total pollination so when you describe the pollination process as; "once pollen touches a female she will begin to make seeds" you have grossly oversimplified it to the point of inaccuracy.
 

D.Gotti

Active Member
Thank you Brick Top. Is it true that water itself will kill any pollen that does not enter the calyx? I would be using a fine mist sprayer.

Will the water effect the pollen inside the calyx? Should I wait a while before misting?
 
It is actually a little more detailed than that. For pollination to occur male pollen has to land on/be applied too/be placed on female pistils, not just anywhere on a female plant.

Each individual calyx is an individual cannabis plant flower. Most people consider an entire bud to be an individual flower, but buds are made up of clusters of large numbers of individual female flowers, the calyx. Each calyx has it's own pistils and any where pollen does not land/is not applied, is not touched by will not produce a seed.

It is not as if pollen touching a female plant anywhere it then is absorbed and transmitted throughout the entire plant resulting in total pollination so when you describe the pollination process as; "once pollen touches a female she will begin to make seeds" you have grossly oversimplified it to the point of inaccuracy.
Well i guess i should have been more detailed because i do not mean anywhere on the plant i meant on the buds only.
 

mrboots

Well-Known Member
I wanted to throw up a link to this thread:https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/387589-producing-feminised-seeds-using-colloidal.html
It's a very interesting technique, seems pretty simple.
I have made seeds one time from some auto flower plants, so I didn't worry about light leaks, but I took the male out of my cabinet and put it in my garage for about a week under a CFL clamp light while I was collecting the pollen. Then I left my female plant under the same light for a few days after I pollenated her to avoid pollenating my other plants in my grow cabinets. I ended up with one tiny plant with tons of seeds, and sensimilla bud on all the rest of my plants.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Thank you Brick Top. Is it true that water itself will kill any pollen that does not enter the calyx? I would be using a fine mist sprayer.

Will the water effect the pollen inside the calyx? Should I wait a while before misting?
I believe I answered that question before by saying I do not know. I have never been into making seeds and instead have always attempted to achieve the opposite so my experiences in this case would not be of any help answering your question.

That is a question best answered by someone who intentionally produces seeds and is highly experienced in doing so.

If I were to attempt to make an assumption based on what would appear to be true, I would say no, water would not kill or wash away pollen before pollination could occur. If that were the case the world would have far fewer growing things due to rains having killed or washed pollen off female trees or plants etc. But then it could easily be argued that only seldom would rain fall at the right time and in the right amount to kill or wash away pollen before pollination could occur plus even if it did a later release of pollen would still get the job done .. but then if water killed pollen it would also kill the remaining pollen the males had left to spread ... so it would be anything less than a valid assumption to make.


Out of curiosity I just Googled the subject and in Jorge Cervantes book "Jorge's RX" he claims water will kill pollen. But he says it like this ... he begins with the collection of pollen .. in a way I personally would not agree with .. but this is what he says:

"Collect the pollen by placing a plastic bag over single branches or the entire plant and shake. Pollen will collect in the bag. Remove a female plant from the grow room. Carefully take this bag and gently place it over a branch covered with female pistils. Secure the bag at the bottom with a string or a wire tie. Shake the branch to ensure pollination. Leave the plant on the isolated plant overnight. Carefully remove the bag the following day and mist the pollinated plant with plain water, and return it to the grow room. Water will kill any viable pollen."

I do know from reading about the storage of pollen that water/moisture will cause pollen expansion which will rupture the pollen rendering it inviable, but I have never read how quickly that will occur, as in on contact or over seconds or minutes or hours.

Where I have to question, or even doubt, Jorge on his position is it only takes seconds of contact of pollen on a pistil for pollination to occur so while water/moisture can cause pollen to expand and become inviable the big question in my mind would be could someone mist fast enough and well enough, getting total coverage of the female plant, to keep any additional pollination from occurring if there is enough air movement to transfer the pollen from the desired area(s) to areas where pollination is undesired and would the unwanted pollen become inviable quicker than the seconds it takes for pollination to occur even if instantly sprayed with water?

That question would also be why I would not agree that his process of collecting pollen in a plastic bag and then covering a branch on a female plant and shaking would be the wisest of methods. I would have to believe that would leave a fair amount of loose pollen all over the branch and leaves that then might be transferred through air movement to other areas of the plant or plants.

That is why I tend to agree that collecting pollen in a small container and selectively applying it to individual pistils of individual calyx using a small tipped/fine artist type paint brush very lightly dipped into the pollen and after each application attempting to remove any additional pollen that might then drift off to unwanted locations when the next application were to be made would be a far better far safer method.

But that's just me.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Well i guess i should have been more detailed because i do not mean anywhere on the plant i meant on the buds only.
Even then the pollen has to come in contact with individual calyx pistils and not just the plant matter that largely makes up both calyx and buds.

Details my boy ... it's all about details. Accuracy is found in details and lacking details is how misconceptions and inaccurate beliefs begin and then spread.
 

Brick Top

New Member
I wanted to throw up a link to this thread:https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/387589-producing-feminised-seeds-using-colloidal.html[/url[/QUOTE] It is a better way to make feminized seeds than Rodelization, or as it is also called, "The Soma Method," but it will still create and pass on some hermi traits .. though not as much as in the case of Rodelization. Actually much of the hermi problem, in feminized beans or otherwise, comes from poor selection of which females to use to make seeds. A while back I read an interesting article where it said if you have a "pure" and "total" female there is extremely little chance of someone getting hermis even when stressed in the ways that will cause hermis in modern crosses. It said that if a female plant has no male genetics in it then it, nor the seeds it produces, are likely to turn hermi. To find out of a female plant is pure they are of course first vegged and then put into a flowering light cycle (but off the top of my head I cannot remember the length of time, but it was not like hours or just a day or two, and then shift them back to a vegetative light cycle for a period of time (that again I do not recall the length of but again it was not just hours or a day or two) and then back into flower. If they do not hermi, they do not contain any male genetics and are "pure" and "total" females and are the females that should be used to make seeds. I have to believe that any professional breeder that knows enough about cannabis plants to believe they deserve the right to claim the title of professional breeder would know that. I would hate to have to believe that any breeder who thinks they deserve the title of professional breeder would not know that or be too lazy to perform such steps, though I have a sinking feeling that there is at least a small handful of them that are too lazy and or too ignorant to know or to try doing that, or who possibly just do not care enough about producing the best product they can just won't bother too do it. I prefer to believe that in the past when such things were not known female plants from crosses that did contain some male genetics were chosen for other crosses due to their structure, their vigor, their yield, their potency, their odor and even flavor etc. and in doing so it has been passed on from cross to cross. If someone looks at the lineage of modern day crosses, the roots, the basic building blocks of very many of them go back decades to when breeders who are largely or totally unknown to modern day tokers and predated 'The Dutch Masters' were breeding and whose work in some cases were things 'The Dutch Masters' that came along later coveted and got their hands on, and some of which were what helped to make them famous since they did not advertise that the genetics were actually created by someone else. And likely ever since the trait has been passed on many times through many crosses and triple crosses that were then used to make other crosses and triple crosses until today it is becoming very difficult to find a "pure" and "total" female plant. The results are more hermis than were seen in the past and then the feminization process either increases it or brings more of it out, or possibly both .. which is why we see so many people complaining about hermis coming from feminized beans.
 

CultivationArt

Well-Known Member
Mybad, i never subed up.
yea its persnol opinon on my why i use tops, i get feel i get more
steady phenos, instead of a billon from one plant.
and cs method i love it. its a great method, and iv highly promoted it on riu.
somas is cool too, just more herms that way. but those are fems.
and iv never heard of using a water bottle to "kill pollen" doesn mean its not true.
ill try to find input on that. but as far as i know, as soon as that pistol is touched its done son.
fertilized, the pollen is semen and cylax vagina, strain up human terms.
those are the reproductive organs of the plant. like humuns once the embreyo is fertilized
a baby comes 9 months later, same with buds, ferterilized 5 weeks later seeds.
the best way to pollenate, is to paintbrush pollen. of your fingers, but more buds will find polllen.
breeding is ALL personal techniqes. what ever gives you more pure genitics, try to keep your secrets.
cause good strains come from good seeds, good seeds come from good breeders. ext:
just becareful and have fun
 

CultivationArt

Well-Known Member
It is a better way to make feminized seeds than Rodelization, or as it is also called, "The Some Method," but it will still create and pass on some hermi traits .. though not as much as in the case of Rodelization.

Actually much of the hermi problem, in feminized beans or otherwise, comes from poor selection of which females to use to make seeds.

A while back I read an interesting article where it said if you have a "pure" and "total" female there is extremely little chance of someone getting hermis even when stressed in the ways that will cause hermis in modern crosses.

It said that if a female plant has no male genetics in it then it, nor the seeds it produces, are likely to turn hermi. To find out of a female plant is pure they are of course first vegged and then put into a flowering light cycle (but off the top of my head I cannot remember the length of time, but it was not like hours or just a day or two, and then shift them back to a vegetative light cycle for a period of time (that again I do not recall the length of but again it was not just hours or a day or two) and then back into flower. If they do not hermi, they do not contain any male genetics and are "pure" and "total" females and are the females that should be used to make seeds.

I have to believe that any professional breeder that knows enough about cannabis plants to believe they deserve the right to claim the title of professional breeder would know that. I would hate to have to believe that any breeder who thinks they deserve the title of professional breeder would not know that or be too lazy to perform such steps, though I have a sinking feeling that there is at least a small handful of them that are too lazy and or too ignorant to know or to try doing that, or who possibly just do not care enough about producing the best product they can just won't bother too do it.

I prefer to believe that in the past when such things were not known female plants from crosses that did contain some male genetics were chosen for other crosses due to their structure, their vigor, their yield, their potency, their odor and even flavor etc. and in doing so it has been passed on from cross to cross.

If someone looks at the lineage of modern day crosses, the roots, the basic building blocks of very many of them go back decades to when breeders who are largely or totally unknown to modern day tokers and predated 'The Dutch Masters' were breeding and whose work in some cases were things 'The Dutch Masters' that came along later coveted and got their hands on, and some of which were what helped to make them famous since they did not advertise that the genetics were actually created by someone else. And likely ever since the trait has been passed on many times through many crosses and triple crosses that were then used to make other crosses and triple crosses until today it is becoming very difficult to find a "pure" and "total" female plant. The results are more hermis than were seen in the past and then the feminization process either increases it or brings more of it out, or possibly both .. which is why we see so many people complaining about hermis coming from feminized beans.

you do know you can vert her back to full flower right. if its a herm from the start its genitics.
buts if she in flower 3 weeks before the first nuts, then its on the grower.
plants tend to want to grow male cause its easier. but can easily be put into full flower again(unless hermophidization
has sprung to deep) then your screwed lol. lotta hostility here, it started from a harmless question.
and whitewidow is not a troll bruv, just srong threoys. but you do tend to get defensive often.
idk, there no need to tell anyone there "wrong" even if they are....
 
you do know you can vert her back to full flower right. if its a herm from the start its genitics.
buts if she in flower 3 weeks before the first nuts, then its on the grower.
plants tend to want to grow male cause its easier. but can easily be put into full flower again(unless hermophidization
has sprung to deep) then your screwed lol. lotta hostility here, it started from a harmless question.
and whitewidow is not a troll bruv, just srong threoys. but you do tend to get defensive often.
idk, there no need to tell anyone there "wrong" even if they are....
Thank you for clearing that up and also clearing it up that im not a troll.+ rep for you when i can...
 
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