Insurance Is A Scam

Poll: Has your insurance covered a cost that you could not?

  • Yes, I would have to sell my house

    Votes: 8 50.0%
  • It would have hurt my bank Account

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • No, $80 Sterilized socks for surgery is ridiculous

    Votes: 5 31.3%

  • Total voters
    16

rizzlaking

Active Member
scam for people to afraid to live without others direction , sheeple.

sadly having kids and business mean you are often required to have the fucking stuff , i hate it
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
buying beer or driving a car is not a constitutionally protected right.

derp dee der.
The Constitution can't protect rights and even if it could, it has failed miserably to do so. It can only attempt to restrain government....again failed miserably. The Bill of Rights does try to define some rights.

What are rights? Glad you asked....



Column by Jim Davies.
Exclusive to STR
They mark limits on government power. If you or I have some right or other, it means government is excluded. If we own some property by right, its agents may enter only by permission – or else by force, violating the right. If we have the right to remain silent, its agents may not rightly oblige us to speak.

Government really, really doesn't like limits, and in fact if government exists, it allows none in its domain; it may pretend there are a few, but that's only to keep folk from becoming alarmed. That's the nature of government: it governs. Individual rights are incompatible with government. The primary (sole?) business of government is to prevent individual rights being enjoyed in practice. If you want rights in practice, you have to terminate government.

So when a distinguished politician once wrote “All men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”, he was either hopelessly naïve (unlikely) or deeply hypocritical – as suggested by the phrase which followed, about government existing to “secure” our rights. Correct: Jefferson actually said that history's primary rights-violator is supposed to secure rights. It is astonishing that anyone can repeat those words and not gag on them. Jefferson was smart and well-read; it's not credible to me that he didn't know what nonsense he wrote.

Similarly, when anyone says that “rights” don't exist, or that individuals don't have any, such as the right to privacy, which the Feds are currently violating so massively, or (worse yet, though surprisingly common) that we have only such rights as the government is graciously pleased to grant, either he doesn't know which way is up or else he's a government disinformation agent. One or the other, take your pick. Prominent pols would not say such things openly, for doing so might lose votes, so it's understandable that they get others to convey the news, preferably a little at a time like water dripping on a stone. Hence, government schools.
However, having used the word for four paragraphs, I ought to define it – for it is admittedly a slightly difficult subject. Let's dispose first of a few things it doesn't mean.

The word “right” is being used here as a noun, not an adjective. “I am right” about this and all my adversaries are wrong – yes – but that's not a noun. Nor do I refer to being “right” morally, while others are sunk in iniquity--even if they were. So those uses are not in consideration.
The noun “right” can itself have two shades of meaning. By contract, if I hire a car, I may have the “right” to drive it from sea to shining sea before I hand it back with a large check, but that too is not what is meant. Or if I'm a strict parent and give my teenager the “right” to stay out until 10 pm, that isn't it either. Those kinds of rights are transitory, not permanent or ingrained or “inalienable.” Government may delight in allowing its subjects to have that kind of right from time to time – the “right to vote”, for example, because voting is harmless to them; it makes no difference. It's good PR, and helps keep the sheeple content . . . for a while.
No, the right under discussion is something not subject to being granted and/or taken away; it is in-built, ingrained, integral to each human being as part of his or her nature. One neat way to define it is as “an action for which no permission is required.” It is a word we use to express absolute self ownership. We each have the right to own, operate and control our own lives because we are members of the human race; man is a self-owning, reasoning animal. It's what we are. It's a form of short-hand; instead of saying “since I am a self-owning human being and have a mouth, I can speak or not speak without limits”, we say we have the “right to free speech.” It means the same, it's just quicker. It's a handy word.

Perhaps that makes it a bit clearer why individual rights are so repugnant to rulers. If the ruled have rights, the ruler's rights are reduced. Indeed, when we get to think about rights, we might ask by what right rulers rule; and that's a very tough question for them to answer. For a very long time, they asserted that God had given them that right. This was okay when nearly everyone believed that a supreme (but invisible, inaudible and untouchable) being existed, but it came unstuck about the time when that proposition was given the critical scrutiny it deserved. So they got to re-think the reply and came up, cleverly, with the equally fictitious source: the people! “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” Ha!
Doubly deceptive, that: Firstly if one is governed, one cannot consent to it--the two are not compatible--and secondly the rights (or powers) assumed by governments greatly exceed the rights possessed by the governed, and therefore cannot possibly be derived from them. You have the right to rule yourself, but zero right to rule me, hence nobody you may appoint has the right to rule me, either. And a hundred million votes times zero is still zero.

Both of those alleged sources of the rights of rulers are therefore 100% bogus, and freedom will result when everyone grasps that simple truth. The reality was admitted by Mao: “Power [the right to rule in practice] comes from the barrel of a gun.” Nowhere else.
So whereas government toadies are understandably eager for us all to suppose that independent, inalienable rights do not exist, or that we have none, the fact is that we have all there are and that they have none. Rulers are totally fake; usurpers and pretenders. They are thugs with guns, policemen, courts and prisons; nothing else.

Lastly, let's repeat that the absolute self-ownership we each properly enjoy can be well expressed by this handy word “right”, but it's not something separate from the owner, as if it or they were a backpack of goodies we carry around. “Rights” can usefully be thought of as plural – the right to speak (or not), to property acquired without theft, to be left in peace, and so on, but all of them spring from the central one which is integral to our nature; if we live, we have the right to life, and to use it as we wish.

Only death can remove them, and only government can spoil their enjoyment.
 

jimbo19872

Member
Over here in the uk we have the nhs which is covered by our taxes. Just out of interest which would you prefer a service similar to the uk or americas insurance system??? I personally think that the nhs is one of the best health services in the world but at the same time we seem to be quite a way behind america with the level of care we have. Ie america seems to have newer and better ways of curing cancer and things
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Over here in the uk we have the nhs which is covered by our taxes. Just out of interest which would you prefer a service similar to the uk or americas insurance system??? I personally think that the nhs is one of the best health services in the world but at the same time we seem to be quite a way behind america with the level of care we have. Ie america seems to have newer and better ways of curing cancer and things
The kind where people aren't forced to join or be punished for non participation. Any kind that differs from that seems rather inconsistent with freedom.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Over here in the uk we have the nhs which is covered by our taxes. Just out of interest which would you prefer a service similar to the uk or americas insurance system??? I personally think that the nhs is one of the best health services in the world but at the same time we seem to be quite a way behind america with the level of care we have. Ie america seems to have newer and better ways of curing cancer and things
Well see here in America When you break your arm. They give you 20 thousand in lab tests and a MRI of your brain and a Cat scan of your leg
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Those without insurance actually get billed more. Really
that's very true, reason being physicians have a "retail" price if you will, knowing that when they submit charges, the insurance company has a "reasonable and customary" fee schedule they work off of..and THEN they pay whatever is the insured's policy terms ie; 80/20% or covered at 100% with $20 co-pay provided you've met your deductible..when you don't have insurance you have to pay whatever the doctor quotes you..you CAN negotiate with the doctor or not and they do try to take advantage of you especially if you have something acute..you can find another..shop around..it pays to try to find a physician that is part of a group where they own their own building and/or surgical center it keeps costs down in order to be competitive..
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
You gonna refuse care just because you think the price is too high?
i did just that, recently..the doctor thought he had me over a barrel..knows i'm waiting on healthcare for the new year, totally over quoted me..i walked out with my x-rays! and when i get my health insurance, i'm going to another doctor because 1) i specifically told him i wanted to pay reasonable and customary.. 2) i feel like he or his office was trying to cheat me and now i can't trust him..3) second opinion is necessary anyway..
 

Nether Region

Well-Known Member
Of course it's a scam, or nobody would provide it. It's the like the house at your favorite gambling haunt. That's why they want everyone (ala Obamacare) to "have" it. Most people don't see a doctor for more than a few colds/flues in a decade, maybe that growth you quickly needed trimmed off your junk before the wife sees it. Anyway, I digress. Of course, too many people (with insurance) go for the occasional prescription of "help" you need to get past a difficult time at work or relationship problem, etc. Again, damn good smoke.


You pay $400/mo for a decent 80/20. That's $4,800/yr, plus co-pays, and deductibles. You go 10 years, that's $48,000 for 20 visits you could have gone to a place like Zoomcare to treat for $100 a visit ($2,000). And, if you should be an unlucky type, something horrible like an accident, or organ failure, cancer, ...another growth on your junk, your bill will be a few hundred thousand dollars, of which, you're on the hook for 20%.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
In a heavily regulated market, it is easier for the privileged business to charge more, since there are fewer providers due to the barriers of entering that particular market. In a less regulated market, more players could offer the service and prices would tend to go down.
Take that up with the individual states.
Or would you like the feds to take the whole thing over?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
that's very true, reason being physicians have a "retail" price if you will, knowing that when they submit charges, the insurance company has a "reasonable and customary" fee schedule they work off of..and THEN they pay whatever is the insured's policy terms ie; 80/20% or covered at 100% with $20 co-pay provided you've met your deductible..when you don't have insurance you have to pay whatever the doctor quotes you..you CAN negotiate with the doctor or not and they do try to take advantage of you especially if you have something acute..you can find another..shop around..it pays to try to find a physician that is part of a group where they own their own building and/or surgical center it keeps costs down in order to be competitive..
Indeed, open, free and competitive markets keep costs down and create more choices for consumers.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Take that up with the individual states.
Or would you like the feds to take the whole thing over?



Whether something is "taken over" by the FEDS or a particular state, is only a difference of magnitude.

In other words a slave on a big ass plantation or on a medium sized one is still a slave without the freedom of choice. The absence of choice is the relevant matter, when FREE CHOICE is removed, what fills in the void?
 

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
blacks, minorities, and students, all who lean heavily democratic, are far more likely to not have an ID. this is a basic fact.

so before we disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters, let's go ahead and see you present some evidence of the problem you claim you are trying to fix: widespread in person voter fraud.

citation needed, red. go ahead.
By voter ID do you mean the card you get in the mail to vote or Drivers License?

Why would minorities not be able to get a card in the mail?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
The Constitution can't protect rights and even if it could, it has failed miserably to do so. It can only attempt to restrain government....again failed miserably. The Bill of Rights does try to define some rights.

What are rights? Glad you asked....



Column by Jim Davies.
Exclusive to STR
They mark limits on government power. If you or I have some right or other, it means government is excluded. If we own some property by right, its agents may enter only by permission – or else by force, violating the right. If we have the right to remain silent, its agents may not rightly oblige us to speak.

Government really, really doesn't like limits, and in fact if government exists, it allows none in its domain; it may pretend there are a few, but that's only to keep folk from becoming alarmed. That's the nature of government: it governs. Individual rights are incompatible with government. The primary (sole?) business of government is to prevent individual rights being enjoyed in practice. If you want rights in practice, you have to terminate government.

So when a distinguished politician once wrote “All men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”, he was either hopelessly naïve (unlikely) or deeply hypocritical – as suggested by the phrase which followed, about government existing to “secure” our rights. Correct: Jefferson actually said that history's primary rights-violator is supposed to secure rights. It is astonishing that anyone can repeat those words and not gag on them. Jefferson was smart and well-read; it's not credible to me that he didn't know what nonsense he wrote.

Similarly, when anyone says that “rights” don't exist, or that individuals don't have any, such as the right to privacy, which the Feds are currently violating so massively, or (worse yet, though surprisingly common) that we have only such rights as the government is graciously pleased to grant, either he doesn't know which way is up or else he's a government disinformation agent. One or the other, take your pick. Prominent pols would not say such things openly, for doing so might lose votes, so it's understandable that they get others to convey the news, preferably a little at a time like water dripping on a stone. Hence, government schools.
However, having used the word for four paragraphs, I ought to define it – for it is admittedly a slightly difficult subject. Let's dispose first of a few things it doesn't mean.

The word “right” is being used here as a noun, not an adjective. “I am right” about this and all my adversaries are wrong – yes – but that's not a noun. Nor do I refer to being “right” morally, while others are sunk in iniquity--even if they were. So those uses are not in consideration.
The noun “right” can itself have two shades of meaning. By contract, if I hire a car, I may have the “right” to drive it from sea to shining sea before I hand it back with a large check, but that too is not what is meant. Or if I'm a strict parent and give my teenager the “right” to stay out until 10 pm, that isn't it either. Those kinds of rights are transitory, not permanent or ingrained or “inalienable.” Government may delight in allowing its subjects to have that kind of right from time to time – the “right to vote”, for example, because voting is harmless to them; it makes no difference. It's good PR, and helps keep the sheeple content . . . for a while.
No, the right under discussion is something not subject to being granted and/or taken away; it is in-built, ingrained, integral to each human being as part of his or her nature. One neat way to define it is as “an action for which no permission is required.” It is a word we use to express absolute self ownership. We each have the right to own, operate and control our own lives because we are members of the human race; man is a self-owning, reasoning animal. It's what we are. It's a form of short-hand; instead of saying “since I am a self-owning human being and have a mouth, I can speak or not speak without limits”, we say we have the “right to free speech.” It means the same, it's just quicker. It's a handy word.

Perhaps that makes it a bit clearer why individual rights are so repugnant to rulers. If the ruled have rights, the ruler's rights are reduced. Indeed, when we get to think about rights, we might ask by what right rulers rule; and that's a very tough question for them to answer. For a very long time, they asserted that God had given them that right. This was okay when nearly everyone believed that a supreme (but invisible, inaudible and untouchable) being existed, but it came unstuck about the time when that proposition was given the critical scrutiny it deserved. So they got to re-think the reply and came up, cleverly, with the equally fictitious source: the people! “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” Ha!
Doubly deceptive, that: Firstly if one is governed, one cannot consent to it--the two are not compatible--and secondly the rights (or powers) assumed by governments greatly exceed the rights possessed by the governed, and therefore cannot possibly be derived from them. You have the right to rule yourself, but zero right to rule me, hence nobody you may appoint has the right to rule me, either. And a hundred million votes times zero is still zero.

Both of those alleged sources of the rights of rulers are therefore 100% bogus, and freedom will result when everyone grasps that simple truth. The reality was admitted by Mao: “Power [the right to rule in practice] comes from the barrel of a gun.” Nowhere else.
So whereas government toadies are understandably eager for us all to suppose that independent, inalienable rights do not exist, or that we have none, the fact is that we have all there are and that they have none. Rulers are totally fake; usurpers and pretenders. They are thugs with guns, policemen, courts and prisons; nothing else.

Lastly, let's repeat that the absolute self-ownership we each properly enjoy can be well expressed by this handy word “right”, but it's not something separate from the owner, as if it or they were a backpack of goodies we carry around. “Rights” can usefully be thought of as plural – the right to speak (or not), to property acquired without theft, to be left in peace, and so on, but all of them spring from the central one which is integral to our nature; if we live, we have the right to life, and to use it as we wish.

Only death can remove them, and only government can spoil their enjoyment.
There is no understanding of rights here. No, you see man really has no "rights" at all except for that interface between himself and others, and more particularly, between himself and his government. Imagine a man and a bear in the woods. Does that man have the "right" to life? does he have the "right" to be armed? no. He may be armed but if he is alone, he has both all rights, and no rights at all. The discussion above presupposes he does when in reality he does not.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Over here in the uk we have the nhs which is covered by our taxes. Just out of interest which would you prefer a service similar to the uk or americas insurance system??? I personally think that the nhs is one of the best health services in the world but at the same time we seem to be quite a way behind america with the level of care we have. Ie america seems to have newer and better ways of curing cancer and things
The UK is thought (deservedly or not) to have poor dental care. But poor care is better than no care. Since dental work is not treated in emergency rooms, those without insurance or funds in the US are sol.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Well see here in America When you break your arm. They give you 20 thousand in lab tests and a MRI of your brain and a Cat scan of your leg
Got to pay for all that expensive high tech machinery. They say we use more tests than necessary, but profit and defensive medicine demand it.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
i did just that, recently..the doctor thought he had me over a barrel..knows i'm waiting on healthcare for the new year, totally over quoted me..i walked out with my x-rays! and when i get my health insurance, i'm going to another doctor because 1) i specifically told him i wanted to pay reasonable and customary.. 2) i feel like he or his office was trying to cheat me and now i can't trust him..3) second opinion is necessary anyway..
When they bring you in unconscious from an injury or suffering something that must be treated in a hurry, like a heart attack, you don't have that option.
 

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
Here are the costs for State IDs

Quick look
Average about $15

Hmm not a bad estimate

real average is $15.41

Alabama$23.50
Alaska$15; free if 60 or older
Arizona$12; free if 65 or older
Arkansas$5
California$26; free if 62 or older; $7 low-income residents
Colorado$10.50; free if 60 or older
Connecticut$22.50
Delaware$20
Florida$25
Georgia$20 for five-years; $35 for 10 years
Hawaii$15; $10 if 65 or older
Idaho$10; $20 for eight-year card if 21 or older
Illinois$10 if under 18; $20; free if 65 or older
Indiana$13; $10 if 65 or older or disabled
Iowa$5
Kansas$18; $14 if 65 or older
Kentucky$12
Louisiana$21; free if 60 or older
Maine$5
Maryland$15
Massachusetts$25
Michigan$10; free if 65 or older
Minnesota$18; $11 if 65 or older
Mississippi$14
Missouri$11
Montana$8
NebraskaRanges from $7.50 to $26.50
Nevada$6 under 18; $12; $7 if 65 or older
New Hampshire$10
New Jersey$24
New Mexico$10 for four years; $18 for eight years
New York$9-$10 for four to five years; $13-$14 for nine to 10 years
North Carolina$10
North Dakota$8
Ohio$8.50
Oklahoma$10
Oregon$44.50
Pennsylvania$12
Rhode Island$16.50; free if 59 or older
South Carolina$5
South Dakota$20
Tennessee$12.50
Texas$16; $6 if 60 or older
Utah$18
Vermont$17
Virginia$10
Washington$20
West VirginiaRanges from $2.50 to $12.50
Wisconsin$28
Wyoming$10
Washington DC$20; free if 65 or older
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Of course it's a scam, or nobody would provide it. It's the like the house at your favorite gambling haunt. That's why they want everyone (ala Obamacare) to "have" it. Most people don't see a doctor for more than a few colds/flues in a decade, maybe that growth you quickly needed trimmed off your junk before the wife sees it. Anyway, I digress. Of course, too many people (with insurance) go for the occasional prescription of "help" you need to get past a difficult time at work or relationship problem, etc. Again, damn good smoke. You pay $400/mo for a decent 80/20. That's $4,800/yr, plus co-pays, and deductibles. You go 10 years, that's $48,000 for 20 visits you could have gone to a place like Zoomcare to treat for $100 a visit ($2,000). And, if you should be an unlucky type, something horrible like an accident, or organ failure, cancer, ...another growth on your junk, your bill will be a few hundred thousand dollars, of which, you're on the hook for 20%.
True, but most never pay those high bills. My mothers heart surgery wasn't done in a network hospital, so her co-pay was $16,000+. She couldn't pay. What they gonna do, garnish her SS check? Generally, they end up with whatever the insurance pays, the rest is usually noncollectable. Frankly, the doctor had her surgery done in another town for his convenience, not hers, knowing it would cost her a small fortune. So, screw him.
 
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