Iran's ruler calls for slaughter.

Brick Top · Feb 12, 2012

Harrekin said:
So Brick Top, nuclear energy/weapons are ok for SOME people to have/develop (as long as its not Iran)

Is it that people here do not read or is it that they are incapable of comprehending what they read or is it they are unable to retain what they have read long enough to respond to it in an accurate manner?

Or do they just like to attempt to put words in other people's mouth and by doing so giving themselves the opportunity to respond in a way they otherwise would not be capable of without looking like total morons?

I have said it several times already. Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. If they want nuclear weapons, which I would never be in favor of, all they have to do is what North Korea did. Say we want nukes so we are withdrawing from the treaty.

and torture is ok up to and including water-boarding and broken bones.

Whoever thinks that water-boarding is actual torture knows absolutely nothing about torture. It is a fake staged gimmick that simulates the feelings of drowning. It is a scare tactic.

If you want to learn about what torture is read accounts of what the North Vietnamese did to U.S. POWs or what Hitler's goons did to people or what Stalin's goons did to people or what Saddam's goons did to people, etc. etc. etc.

Some people have become such pussies that just the idea of scaring someone is considered by them to be torture.

Broken bones? I wouldn't say I would agree with the intentional breaking of bones, but as it happened in the example I gave of tossing a German prisoner out of a second story window, twice, and the second time he broke his arm, given what came from it I would say it was more than acceptable.

I have a hypothetical question/situation for you. Roughly one month before 9/11 one of the hijackers is picked up on some legitimate charge and when checked out a few red flags pop up. If someone could do with him what the intelligence officer did with the German, ask him questions and when he refused to answer toss him out a second story window, and that happened twice and just when he was about to go flying high again he said he'd talk and he gave up the entire plan, how many people were involved, who they were, how they would do it, when they would do it, what the targets were ... everything, and because of that 9/11 would never have occurred and the roughly 3,000 innocent Americans would not have been brutally slaughtered, would you bitch about one broken arm? Would you rather that the arrested hijacker have been fed tea and scones and pampered and all those innocent men, women and children died because of it? Is that your definition of the lesser of two evils?

As it was mentioned earlier, the U.S. is a signatory of the Geneva Convention so such things as I mentioned are not allowed. But at the same time Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty but all you Iran lovers don't think they should be held to that treaty but you all insist that the U.S. be held to the other.

Why won't you Iran lovers be as demanding of Iran as you are of the U.S. and other Western powers? Why are you more than willing to give Iran a pass, even though it could result in a few hundred thousand or a few million deaths, but you will not stand for the U.S. tricking a terrorist into thinking he is drowning to scare him into talking?

Some people do not live in reality. They like to believe the world is far more civilized than it actually is. What's more is they do not understand that when you are dealing with someone uncivilized, playing by the overly civilized rules of the pussy wimps will not work, it will not get you anywhere.

This is not about torture or terrorists or anything like that but it is a perfect example of how insane some people are about carrying out everything with the utmost of civility.

At the marina I used to be part owner of the head executioner of the State of Virginia kept a houseboat. One day we were talking and he told me the steps he is required to follow in an execution. When he got to where before inserting any needles he had to first cleanse the area with alcohol. I asked him why. He said because of chance of infection. I asked, what infection, the guy will be dead in three or four minutes anyway. He laughed and said something like, it's stupid, it's a waste of time and money, but that is what is considered to be civilized and needed to be done.

It's inane people who believe something like that is important that believes a simulation is actual torture.

Lost a bit of respect for you there to be honest, you're kinda making yourselves out to be the real "terrorists".

Gee, I will cry myself to sleep later thinking that you have; "lost a bit of respect for" me.

What, are you insane? If terrorists got their hands on you there would be another video where you would be seen bound and helpless and then several of them would grab you and slowly cut your head off while you are still alive .... and you say that I made myself; "out to be the real terrorist" because I told the truth about how water-boarding is a simulated act to attempt to trick someone into believing they will drown and hopefully it will be enough to scare them into talking, or that if in the process of lightly roughing someone up their is an accidental unintentional breaking of a bone?

I hope to God that you are not an American because America doesn't need soft wimpy irrational people like you.

Open your mind, Iran hasn't attacked anyone in over 200 years,

Technically, prior to 1935 Iran was Persia, but how many of those over 200 years you mentioned have fundamentalist Islamists ruled Iran? I suppose that it is meaningless to you that Iran is a known, proven, terrorist nation? I suppose that you don't have any problem with Iran trying to get a foothold in South America and having invested billions of dollars in Venezuela and has promised millions to Bolivia and Nicaragua and that Iran has proven ties to drug cartels in those regions?

I suppose that a piddly little thing like how ties between the Chavez regime and the ETA terrorist organization were uncovered in Spain. Judicial authorities sais that Caracas is a hotbed of terrorists where they find refuge, financing and training. And the fact that Spanish judges revealed two ETA terrorists who confessed that as recently as 2008 they were trained in all methods of terror along with Chilean radicals in Venezuelan territory doesn't bother you in the least, even though Iran is funding it and supplying training.

So, you have a proven terrorist nation run by Islamic fundamentalists who are secretly creating nuclear weapons while hiding behind the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and who have been working ferociously to develop longer and longer range missiles with ever improving accuracy, and who are funding terrorist training, and providing the training, and who deny that the Holocaust ever took place and have openly called for the destruction of Israel, but because the nation has some 200-years worth of history of not attacking anyone you consider them to be trustworthy with nuclear weapons.

That makes me need to ask, are you insane or are you just stupid?

yet Israel goes around assassinating people and declaring wars on their sand-hut dwelling neighbours

Now that's rich! You went back over 200-years with Iran, so why didn't you delve at least back to the creation of Israel to show their history when it comes to conflicts. Why did you attempt to make it sound like Israel is, and has always been, the aggressor towards any Arab nations? Did you simply conveniently forget about the following events, or are you to young and or ignorant to know about them? Or maybe in your weak little mind they just don't count?

The U.N. created the nation of Israel .... and this is what followed.

Israeli War of Independence - 1947 - 1949

On November 29, 1947, the UN voted to partition Mandate Palestine and created the State of Israel. The Arab nations rejected the partition and the Arab Liberation Army comprised of volunteers from various Arab countries began attacking Israel after the UN vote. Israel officially declared independence on May 14, 1948, at which time five Arab armies from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan and Iraq invaded the nascent state of Israel. Israeli forces managed to repel all of the invading armies from its territories and signed armistice agreements with all warring parties by July 1949. Israel suffered 6,373 fatalities during the war - 1 percent of its population.

Suez Crisis - October - November 1956

Starting in 1949, Egypt trained and equipped Palestinian fedayeen or guerrillas who conducted raids into Israel, killing 400 Israelis and wounding another 900 between 1949 and 1956. In light of this ongoing paramilitary campaign, which contravened the 1949 armistice agreements, Israel accepted a proposal by Britain and France to invade the Sinai Peninsula. These two countries were attempting to take back control of the Suez Canal which Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser had nationalised, thereby stripping Britain and France of their assets in the canal.

Six-Day War - June 1967

At the beginning of June 1967, due to tensions on the Israeli-Syrian border, Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser deployed more than 100,000 troops and 900 tanks in the Sinai Peninsula, expelled UN peacekeepers from the Egyptian-Israeli border and closed the straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping. Fearing a war on three fronts, Israel initiated a pre-emptive strike against Egypt and disabled its army in three days. Israel then turned its attention to the Syrian and Jordanian armies, defeating them and capturing the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

War of Attrition - 1968 - 1970

Egyptian forces initiated a number of skirmishes along the cease-fire lines of 1967, shelling Israeli positions as well as sinking the Israeli destroyer Eilat. Israel responded with air assaults and ground attacks on Egyptian military positions as well as air raids on strategic facilities inside Egypt. Israel sustained more than 1,400 military fatalities during these hostilities.

Yom Kippur War - October 1973

Egyptian and Syrian forces attacked Israeli positions in the Sinai and Golan Heights initiating a three-week war. After early advances, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) defeated the Egyptian and Syrian armies although Egyptian forces maintained the positions on a narrow strip east of the Suez Canal. Israel fatalities were approximately 2,700 whilst Syrian and Egyptian casualties were perhaps as high as 18,500.

1982 Lebanon War - June - September 1982

Following continual mortar and rocket fire on Jewish towns in northern Israel by Palestinian militias in southern Lebanon, the IDF invaded Lebanon in an attempt to push the Palestinian forces northwards by 40km, beyond the range of northern Israel. Syria joined in the fighting, engaging in large aerial battles with the Israeli Air Force. The IDF succeeded in virtually removing all PLO presence from southern Lebanon and an agreement reached at the end of the war ensured that 14,000 PLO members were deported from Lebanon.

Israel has had to fight, literally, for it's very existence since it's creation. It's Arab neighbors have repeatedly attacked Israel and started wars. Now the Iranians, whose president has called for the total annihilation of Israel, are breaking a treaty and creating nuclear weapons, and you expect Israel to have a warm fuzzy feeling about it?

You must be insane!

but it's ok for Israel to have its secret nuclear arsenal?

Israel is not a signatory of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. When in God's name will you and the other Iran lovers and U.S./Israel haters be honest and factor the treaty into what you think and say?

You don't, and you won't, see me bitching about North Korea creating nuclear weapons. I don't like the idea of it. I would prefer that there wasn't a single nuke in the entire world. But at least North Korea had the balls and the honesty to say it wanted nukes and was pulling out of the treaty. Once out, North Korea had every right to attempt to build nuclear weapons.

If Iran would do the same, come out of the nuclear closet and say, yes, we want nukes, we will build nukes and to be able to do to we are withdrawing from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty I still wouldn't like them building nukes, but I would then say they had an equal right to that of any other non-nuclear nation that is not a signatory of the treaty to have a nuclear weapons program.

But Iran doesn't have the balls to do that. They know if they did that Israel would not give a damn that Iran would then have an equal right to Israel to have nukes and Israel would do it's best to wipe out the Iranian nuclear program, which I would denounce as an illegal act, so instead Iran will continue to lie and hide behind a treaty it is not honoring until it reaches a point where it has enough nukes stockpiled that it can then say to the world, we're out of the treaty, oh, and by the way, we have nukes so don't try anything .... and then it will wait until it feels the time is ripe and it will attack Israel with nuclear weapons.

The West is starting to turn into the bad guys if you ask me.

I didn't ask you, I won't ask you and personally I do not care what someone who is so totally naive and irrational thinks anyway.

Why isn't Iran allowed develop nuclear energy?

I have never heard or read any nation say that Iran should not be allowed nuclear energy and I have never said it myself. So, who has said that?

Various nations, both separately, together in groups and in conjunction with the U.N. has tried to work out a deal with Iran over nuclear energy. Russia is building a nuclear power plant for it. Russia offered to supply Iran with all the nuclear rods it would ever need for it's nuclear energy program. All it required was that the spent rods be returned. Iran said HELL NO!

They have basically no weaponised material...how did they breach the Anti-Proliferation treaty? Cos Israel "says" they're making a bomb?

To make nuclear fuel rods you need to enrich uranium to 4%. Iran has enriched to 20%, that according to the IAEA. By now they might have done further enrichment. Iran did it so it can have a stockpile that can quickly be enriched to weapons grade material.

Hassan Rowhani, the man who headed talks with Britain, France and Germany until 2005, told a meeting of Islamic clerics and academics that Iran played for time and tried to dupe the West after its secret nuclear program was uncovered by the Iranian opposition in 2002. He revealed that while talks were taking place in Teheran, Iran completed the installation of equipment for conversion of yellowcake a key stage in the nuclear fuel process at its Isfahan plant. Rowhani also said that on at least two occasions the IAEA obtained information on secret nuclear-related experiments from academic papers published by scientists involved in the work.

But I guess to you that's just Israel making false claims, right?

Oh, there is more proof that just that in case you need it.

The Koolade might be tasty for a time, but you have to try get over it.

What you need to do is stop squeezing Sterno through one of your dirty socks and mixing it with fruit juice and drinking it so your mind will at least have some chance to think clearly and you will then be able to see and accept reality rather than merely clinging to your delusions.

Harrekin · Feb 12, 2012

Brick Top said:
Is it that people here do not read or is it that they are incapable of comprehending what they read or is it they are unable to retain what they have read long enough to respond to it in an accurate manner?

Or do they just like to attempt to put words in other people's mouth and by doing so giving themselves the opportunity to respond in a way they otherwise would not be capable of without looking like total morons?

I have said it several times already. Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. If they want nuclear weapons, which I would never be in favor of, all they have to do is what North Korea did. Say we want nukes so we are withdrawing from the treaty.

Whoever thinks that water-boarding is actual torture knows absolutely nothing about torture. It is a fake staged gimmick that simulates the feelings of drowning. It is a scare tactic.

If you want to learn about what torture is read accounts of what the North Vietnamese did to U.S. POWs or what Hitler's goons did to people or what Stalin's goons did to people or what Saddam's goons did to people, etc. etc. etc.

Some people have become such pussies that just the idea of scaring someone is considered by them to be torture.

Broken bones? I wouldn't say I would agree with the intentional breaking of bones, but as it happened in the example I gave of tossing a German prisoner out of a second story window, twice, and the second time he broke his arm, given what came from it I would say it was more than acceptable.

I have a hypothetical question/situation for you. Roughly one month before 9/11 one of the hijackers is picked up on some legitimate charge and when checked out a few red flags pop up. If someone could do with him what the intelligence officer did with the German, ask him questions and when he refused to answer toss him out a second story window, and that happened twice and just when he was about to go flying high again he said he'd talk and he gave up the entire plan, how many people were involved, who they were, how they would do it, when they would do it, what the targets were ... everything, and because of that 9/11 would never have occurred and the roughly 3,000 innocent Americans would not have been brutally slaughtered, would you bitch about one broken arm? Would you rather that the arrested hijacker have been fed tea and scones and pampered and all those innocent men, women and children died because of it? Is that your definition of the lesser of two evils?

As it was mentioned earlier, the U.S. is a signatory of the Geneva Convention so such things as I mentioned are not allowed. But at the same time Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty but all you Iran lovers don't think they should be held to that treaty but you all insist that the U.S. be held to the other.

Why won't you Iran lovers be as demanding of Iran as you are of the U.S. and other Western powers? Why are you more than willing to give Iran a pass, even though it could result in a few hundred thousand or a few million deaths, but you will not stand for the U.S. tricking a terrorist into thinking he is drowning to scare him into talking?

Some people do not live in reality. They like to believe the world is far more civilized than it actually is. What's more is they do not understand that when you are dealing with someone uncivilized, playing by the overly civilized rules of the pussy wimps will not work, it will not get you anywhere.

This is not about torture or terrorists or anything like that but it is a perfect example of how insane some people are about carrying out everything with the utmost of civility.

At the marina I used to be part owner of the head executioner of the State of Virginia kept a houseboat. One day we were talking and he told me the steps he is required to follow in an execution. When he got to where before inserting any needles he had to first cleanse the area with alcohol. I asked him why. He said because of chance of infection. I asked, what infection, the guy will be dead in three or four minutes anyway. He laughed and said something like, it's stupid, it's a waste of time and money, but that is what is considered to be civilized and needed to be done.

It's inane people who believe something like that is important that believes a simulation is actual torture.

Gee, I will cry myself to sleep later thinking that you have; "lost a bit of respect for" me.

What, are you insane? If terrorists got their hands on you there would be another video where you would be seen bound and helpless and then several of them would grab you and slowly cut your head off while you are still alive .... and you say that I made myself; "out to be the real terrorist" because I told the truth about how water-boarding is a simulated act to attempt to trick someone into believing they will drown and hopefully it will be enough to scare them into talking, or that if in the process of lightly roughing someone up their is an accidental unintentional breaking of a bone?

I hope to God that you are not an American because America doesn't need soft wimpy irrational people like you.

Technically, prior to 1935 Iran was Persia, but how many of those over 200 years you mentioned have fundamentalist Islamists ruled Iran? I suppose that it is meaningless to you that Iran is a known, proven, terrorist nation? I suppose that you don't have any problem with Iran trying to get a foothold in South America and having invested billions of dollars in Venezuela and has promised millions to Bolivia and Nicaragua and that Iran has proven ties to drug cartels in those regions?

I suppose that a piddly little thing like how ties between the Chavez regime and the ETA terrorist organization were uncovered in Spain. Judicial authorities sais that Caracas is a hotbed of terrorists where they find refuge, financing and training. And the fact that Spanish judges revealed two ETA terrorists who confessed that as recently as 2008 they were trained in all methods of terror along with Chilean radicals in Venezuelan territory doesn't bother you in the least, even though Iran is funding it and supplying training.

So, you have a proven terrorist nation run by Islamic fundamentalists who are secretly creating nuclear weapons while hiding behind the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and who have been working ferociously to develop longer and longer range missiles with ever improving accuracy, and who are funding terrorist training, and providing the training, and who deny that the Holocaust ever took place and have openly called for the destruction of Israel, but because the nation has some 200-years worth of history of not attacking anyone you consider them to be trustworthy with nuclear weapons.

That makes me need to ask, are you insane or are you just stupid?

Now that's rich! You went back over 200-years with Iran, so why didn't you delve at least back to the creation of Israel to show their history when it comes to conflicts. Why did you attempt to make it sound like Israel is, and has always been, the aggressor towards any Arab nations? Did you simply conveniently forget about the following events, or are you to young and or ignorant to know about them? Or maybe in your weak little mind they just don't count?

The U.N. created the nation of Israel .... and this is what followed.

Israeli War of Independence - 1947 - 1949

On November 29, 1947, the UN voted to partition Mandate Palestine and created the State of Israel. The Arab nations rejected the partition and the Arab Liberation Army comprised of volunteers from various Arab countries began attacking Israel after the UN vote. Israel officially declared independence on May 14, 1948, at which time five Arab armies from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan and Iraq invaded the nascent state of Israel. Israeli forces managed to repel all of the invading armies from its territories and signed armistice agreements with all warring parties by July 1949. Israel suffered 6,373 fatalities during the war - 1 percent of its population.

Suez Crisis - October - November 1956

Starting in 1949, Egypt trained and equipped Palestinian fedayeen or guerrillas who conducted raids into Israel, killing 400 Israelis and wounding another 900 between 1949 and 1956. In light of this ongoing paramilitary campaign, which contravened the 1949 armistice agreements, Israel accepted a proposal by Britain and France to invade the Sinai Peninsula. These two countries were attempting to take back control of the Suez Canal which Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser had nationalised, thereby stripping Britain and France of their assets in the canal.

Six-Day War - June 1967

At the beginning of June 1967, due to tensions on the Israeli-Syrian border, Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser deployed more than 100,000 troops and 900 tanks in the Sinai Peninsula, expelled UN peacekeepers from the Egyptian-Israeli border and closed the straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping. Fearing a war on three fronts, Israel initiated a pre-emptive strike against Egypt and disabled its army in three days. Israel then turned its attention to the Syrian and Jordanian armies, defeating them and capturing the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

War of Attrition - 1968 - 1970

Egyptian forces initiated a number of skirmishes along the cease-fire lines of 1967, shelling Israeli positions as well as sinking the Israeli destroyer Eilat. Israel responded with air assaults and ground attacks on Egyptian military positions as well as air raids on strategic facilities inside Egypt. Israel sustained more than 1,400 military fatalities during these hostilities.

Yom Kippur War - October 1973

Egyptian and Syrian forces attacked Israeli positions in the Sinai and Golan Heights initiating a three-week war. After early advances, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) defeated the Egyptian and Syrian armies although Egyptian forces maintained the positions on a narrow strip east of the Suez Canal. Israel fatalities were approximately 2,700 whilst Syrian and Egyptian casualties were perhaps as high as 18,500.

1982 Lebanon War - June - September 1982

Following continual mortar and rocket fire on Jewish towns in northern Israel by Palestinian militias in southern Lebanon, the IDF invaded Lebanon in an attempt to push the Palestinian forces northwards by 40km, beyond the range of northern Israel. Syria joined in the fighting, engaging in large aerial battles with the Israeli Air Force. The IDF succeeded in virtually removing all PLO presence from southern Lebanon and an agreement reached at the end of the war ensured that 14,000 PLO members were deported from Lebanon.

Israel has had to fight, literally, for it's very existence since it's creation. It's Arab neighbors have repeatedly attacked Israel and started wars. Now the Iranians, whose president has called for the total annihilation of Israel, are breaking a treaty and creating nuclear weapons, and you expect Israel to have a warm fuzzy feeling about it?

You must be insane!

Israel is not a signatory of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. When in God's name will you and the other Iran lovers and U.S./Israel haters be honest and factor the treaty into what you think and say?

You don't, and you won't, see me bitching about North Korea creating nuclear weapons. I don't like the idea of it. I would prefer that there wasn't a single nuke in the entire world. But at least North Korea had the balls and the honesty to say it wanted nukes and was pulling out of the treaty. Once out, North Korea had every right to attempt to build nuclear weapons.

If Iran would do the same, come out of the nuclear closet and say, yes, we want nukes, we will build nukes and to be able to do to we are withdrawing from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty I still wouldn't like them building nukes, but I would then say they had an equal right to that of any other non-nuclear nation that is not a signatory of the treaty to have a nuclear weapons program.

But Iran doesn't have the balls to do that. They know if they did that Israel would not give a damn that Iran would then have an equal right to Israel to have nukes and Israel would do it's best to wipe out the Iranian nuclear program, which I would denounce as an illegal act, so instead Iran will continue to lie and hide behind a treaty it is not honoring until it reaches a point where it has enough nukes stockpiled that it can then say to the world, we're out of the treaty, oh, and by the way, we have nukes so don't try anything .... and then it will wait until it feels the time is ripe and it will attack Israel with nuclear weapons.

I didn't ask you, I won't ask you and personally I do not care what someone who is so totally naive and irrational thinks anyway.

I have never heard or read any nation say that Iran should not be allowed nuclear energy and I have never said it myself. So, who has said that?

Various nations, both separately, together in groups and in conjunction with the U.N. has tried to work out a deal with Iran over nuclear energy. Russia is building a nuclear power plant for it. Russia offered to supply Iran with all the nuclear rods it would ever need for it's nuclear energy program. All it required was that the spent rods be returned. Iran said HELL NO!

To make nuclear fuel rods you need to enrich uranium to 4%. Iran has enriched to 20%, that according to the IAEA. By now they might have done further enrichment. Iran did it so it can have a stockpile that can quickly be enriched to weapons grade material.

Hassan Rowhani, the man who headed talks with Britain, France and Germany until 2005, told a meeting of Islamic clerics and academics that Iran played for time and tried to dupe the West after its secret nuclear program was uncovered by the Iranian opposition in 2002. He revealed that while talks were taking place in Teheran, Iran completed the installation of equipment for conversion of yellowcake – a key stage in the nuclear fuel process – at its Isfahan plant. Rowhani also said that on at least two occasions the IAEA obtained information on secret nuclear-related experiments from academic papers published by scientists involved in the work.

But I guess to you that's just Israel making false claims, right?

Oh, there is more proof that just that in case you need it.

What you need to do is stop squeezing Sterno through one of your dirty socks and mixing it with fruit juice and drinking it so your mind will at least have some chance to think clearly and you will then be able to see and accept reality rather than merely clinging to your delusions.

You can say what you like justifying it, but the US/Israel is the CAUSE of the instability, yet try claim their actions are part of the effect, which is untrue.

Why did Al Queda attack the WTC? US bases in Saudi Arabia, why does Iran dislike Israel? Cos of their treatment of the Palestenians.

You can say otherwise, but then you'd be lying.

Brick Top · Feb 13, 2012

Harrekin said:
You can say what you like justifying it, but the US/Israel is the CAUSE of the instability, yet try claim their actions are part of the effect, which is untrue.

Why did Al Queda attack the WTC? US bases in Saudi Arabia, why does Iran dislike Israel? Cos of their treatment of the Palestenians.

You can say otherwise, but then you'd be lying.

There has not been true stability in that region since the British and French redrew the maps of the region to their liking after WWI and nations borders were changed and people like the Kurds became outcasts without a nation of their own.

Why does Iran hate the U.S.? Because of the U.S. position on a Palestinian State/Nation? That is just a handy excuse. There has been at least some dislike for the U.S. ever since the U.S. helped put the Shah in power and he was our puppet.

When President Carter gave his speech in Iran that touched off the rioting that sparked the revolution they headed straight to the airport after the speech and his motorcade had to change directions four times because of the masses of upset Iranians in the streets. For a while his Secret Service guys had doubts if they were going to make it out of Iran. You would be lying if you said that anger was over the Palestinian people. If you said the U.S. embassy was overrun and the staff taken hostage was out of anger about the Palestinian people. There were more than enough reasons for the Iranian people to dislike the U.S. then and they have not gone away.

Why does Iran hate Israel? There is a list of reasons that among other things would include religious differences, cultural differences, How quickly and how well Israel prospered as a nation and a people and how Israelis soon had a higher standard of living than the people in Arab nations, which made Arab leaders look bad, the embarrassment of this tiny spot of land and small number of people standing off and beating, militarily, attacks from much of the Arab world, and doing it single handed, and doing it repeatedly, and of course the Palestinian thing.

But again, at least to a point, that it only a handy excuse.

Something many nations have done over the years, including a number of Middle Eastern nations, is when things are bad internally the leaders find something, anything to get the focus and the anger and the hatred of their people on something external, something out of the nation itself. An enemy is created and demonized and that is pounded into the heads of every citizen 24-hours a day, 365 days a year.

Then when you have most of your people looking the other way, as a leader, you are safer, more secure and you can keep doing things that if not for some Great Satan for your people to hate, they would not let you get away with. Things like how Iran’s repressive regime has cracked down on political dissidents, human rights activists, journalists, bloggers, students, women’s rights advocates, minority ethnic groups, and adherents of minority religions, particularly the Baha’i faith.

There are Iranians, in Iran, that are not much, if any, better off than the Palestinians, other than to be able to say they at least belong to a people with a nation of it's own.

My personal beliefs about the Middle East have been, ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the U.S. should have pulled out of the Middle East in any and every way and if people in that region want to fight and kill each other, let them. I hate the billions of dollars of aid being given to Israel. It is, for the most part, and indirect subsidy of the U.S. arms industry because of the requirement that a major percentage of it be spent on U.S. goods, which means U.S. manufactured military weaponry. It's a way to funnel U.S. taxpayer dollars to the fat cat arms manufacturers without the average American noticing it and getting upset.

And I also think that it was STUPID on the part f the U.S. to link itself so closely with Israel that it alienated most Arab nations for many, many years, and still does some. Rather than putting all our eggs in one small basket we should have done what the Soviets tried to do, court and make buddies with the more numerous much higher population Arab nations.

I'm not saying that Israel should have been left hung out to dry, but the U.S. should have gotten in tight with the Arab world and then used slight pressure and some rewards of different types to convince the Arab world to just ignore the tiny boil on it's ass.

But to get back on the topic of Iran and nukes, even China is pushing Iran to be more open about it's program.

The headlines of an article that came out 12 hours ago:

[h=1]China urges closer cooperation from Iran in nuclear standoff[/h]
(Reuters) - China has urged Iran to cooperate more closely with the global nuclear watchdog and rejoin talks on its nuclear program that has caused a rift with the West.

China is not famous for being the voice of reason, but even China knows that on the current course Iran is taking with the West, there will be big problems, big enough that the ripple effect would be damaging to China, so even China is saying open up, work with the IAEA.

China doesn't want to see any conflict that could cause the Straits of Hormuz to be closed, even temporarily, or even a blockade that could cut or slow down the flow of oil. China purchases most of it's imported oil from Iran, some 20% of Iranian oil exports, and China would be waist deep, and upside down, in the big muddy without that oil.

Part of an article from the 9th:

Analysts say Iran could have enough enriched uranium to build an atomic bomb within a year. Iran says its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes, but recently announced it is enriching uranium at an underground plant.

And Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's views of Israel are clear:

“The Zionist regime is truly a cancerous tumor in this region that should be removed and will be removed,” he said.

Israel is concerned that soon it might be too late to stop Tehran from building a nuclear weapon.

“Regrettably, I think that conflict is in the air - conflict triggered by Iran’s adamant refusal to accede to the wishes of every country in the world,” said Robert Satloff, Executive Director of The Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

Satloff says the United States, with aircraft carriers positioned near the Persian Gulf, would likely be involved in any military conflict with Iran.

“Our ironclad commitment, and I mean ironclad, to Israel’s security has meant the closest military cooperation between our two countries in history,” said President Obama.

The United States has supplied Israel with bunker-busting bombs, designed to destroy deep underground targets, like Iran's uranium enrichment facilities.

But the United States and its Western allies hope that tough new sanctions on Iranian banks and the country’s oil industry will deter Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons.

Iran's Supreme Leader says Tehran will not back down. “Well, this threat of war is not in the United States' favor. The actual war will be ten times not in the United States' favor,” Khamenei said.

Iran has the largest inventory of ballistic missiles in the Middle East. And it has threatened to use them.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak says his country is not willing to wait long for Iran to end it's nuclear ambitions.

“Today, unlike the past, there is a wide understanding in the world that if the sanctions will not achieve the desired goal of stopping the military nuclear program, there will be a need to consider taking action,” Barak said.

According to news reports, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta says Israel could attack Iran within the next few months. Meanwhile, U.S. media report that Israel and the United States are trying to reconcile differences over how much time to give Iran to comply with international demands to end its nuclear program.

If you were an Israeli leader, or just an Israeli, and a leader of the middle Eastern nation with the largest inventory of missiles, and who is working to make nuclear weapons, said; “The Zionist regime is truly a cancerous tumor in this region that should be removed and will be removed,” what would your reaction be? Would you send Iran an FTD bouquet and a Whitman sampler, or would you send in fighter-bombers?

I have already posted accurate information that clearly states that Israel would be within it's right to order a preemptive attack, that it would be legal on every level. Israel has had to fight to survive since it was first created. A list of the multiple times Israel was forced to defend itself against various Arab nations was in my previous message. What does that make you think that Israel will do? Give up, pack up and move all it's people to Florida, or fight for it's survival, for it's very existence again?

But it doesn't have to if Iran is only pursuing peaceful nuclear energy and would fully comply with the IAEA, as it is currently required to do. But Iran refuses to do that. Doesn't that ever make you pause for a moment and wonder why? Don't you have to ask yourself, if Iran is not in violation of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty then why is Iran being so pigheaded, why would it rather deal with the sanctions it now faces, and any others yet to come, and why would it risk being militarily attacked when all that could easily be avoided just by opening every door and letting the IAEA walk in and check things out? If Iran has noting to hide, than letting the IAEA have total access to the entire Iranian nuclear program is something that ANY logical and rational leader would eagerly welcome.

But if the leader or leaders say no, well, than that pretty much makes it crystal clear that Iran does in fact have something to hide.

If you have nothing to hide, than you do not feel any need to hide anything. But if you have something to hide, than you hide it as well as you can for as long as you can.

Which of those two best describes the actions taken by Iran?

Iran's ruler calls for slaughter.

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Harrekin

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