Iron/Rust too harsh for my reverse osmosis?

Spatula Boy

Spatula Boy

Member
Hows it going guys, not sure if this question is in the right section or not, but anyways... I just moved into a new house in a new area, and i have water coming out of the faucet with a ph in the low 8's and 90 ppm. after it is filtered it is 4 ppm (according to my inexpensive Hanna meter) and the ph is right around 7(I'm using the GH drops). Sounds great, right? Well after running about 40 gallons through the RO, the sediment filter is now turning a rust color. I"m worried I'm gonna clog up that sediment and prefilter super fast. Should I just rinse out the sediment filter regularly? Maybe another filter before the sediment filter? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
Cpappa27

Cpappa27

Well-Known Member
Its more than likely rust from the pipes, or the water is high in iron. Sediment filters are fairly cheap. Should change them once every 4 to 6 months on average, depending on usage of course. But you said your water was 90ppm before the filter so I really think its rust in the pipes coming out, so when its pretty dark and keep an eye on it just change it. Its the cheapest filter of them all.. 90 ppm is better than bottled water, why are you even using a filter?
 
Spatula Boy

Spatula Boy

Member
Cpappa27 said:
Its more than likely rust from the pipes, or the water is high in iron. Sediment filters are fairly cheap. Should change them once every 4 to 6 months on average, depending on usage of course. But you said your water was 90ppm before the filter so I really think its rust in the pipes coming out, so when its pretty dark and keep an eye on it just change it. Its the cheapest filter of them all.. 90 ppm is better than bottled water, why are you even using a filter?
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Thanks fore the response... you know, Ive been thinking the same thing... i own the R/O filter so i figure i should use it. I'm thinking I should get some calibration fluid for the tds meter and make sure that reading is correct. I find it kinda odd that my 90 ppm water has enough rust in it to turn my sediment filter dark in 40 gallons of water, although 40 gallons of filtered water means 80 or 120 gallons of well water have passed through it.

Thats a good point about the pipes...I'm gonna try testing the water after it has ran for a minute or two and see if i get a different reading...maybe fill two glasses with water, one right after the faucet is turned on and one after it runs for a few minutes, and see if i can visibly see any rust sediment in the first glass? If its just rusty pipes then it may be easier on my filter to unhook it and let the cold water run for a minute before i hook it to the filter to let the rust run out...I'm gonna try this and post any results i can find.

Maybe i should just ditch the filter and just adjust the ph...but with being able to see the rust i have to wonder if I would be giving them an unhealthy dose of iron...thoughts anyone?
 
Spatula Boy

Spatula Boy

Member
The water comes out of the tap with a ph of 8+. Isn't filtering the water to at least correct the ph a healthier option than adding ph down all the time? I'm also worried about giving the girls a toxic dose of iron since i can see the rust in the water, which i guess is actually iron oxide(if its rusty pipes)? Am I crazy for thinking this?

I'm wondering if I should ditch the R/O and get some kind of inline home water filter that is built to handle a heavier amount of sediment.
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Spatula Boy said:
The water comes out of the tap with a ph of 8+. Isn't filtering the water to at least correct the ph a healthier option than adding ph down all the time? I'm also worried about giving the girls a toxic dose of iron since i can see the rust in the water, which i guess is actually iron oxide(if its rusty pipes)? Am I crazy for thinking this?

I'm wondering if I should ditch the R/O and get some kind of inline home water filter that is built to handle a heavier amount of sediment.
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The rust won't hurt them, it's mostly too large for them to absorb. Only the dissolved part that you can't see is usable by the plants. You do want to filter that out, because who knows if it's just iron, but a sediment filter will do that job for you perfectly. You have some pretty pure water at 90 PPM. That is low enough that you could have some of the RO like issues with low calcium with certain nutrients on the market.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Iron in water comes in 2 forms. Actual iron oxide and bacterial iron. Both are (for the most part, as you see from the ppm of 4) removed by any quality RO filter. I have seen way HIGH iron/tannin based ppms in the 700+ range reduced to 0-1ppm by good RO units.
The result of these high counts results in you changing the actual RO membrane about every 6 months or a bit more for light use.

The use of Boron or Green sand will remove bacterial iron, with out adding "salts" from water softeners. These units are available from water softener companies, and are simple to instal if you "need" them after a good water quality test. Now then......Do you need one? Not really, if you don't mind changing the RO membrane more often. Boron filters are costly and a recharge of the Boron (aprox every 3 years) is around $300 a pop. Green sand filters are cheaper to recharge, But are costly to start with. Just like the Boron filters. The cost of the RO membranes will be a little over $300 every 3 years without the Iron prefilters and you will still WANT to use the RO after removing the iron.

The positive results from USING an RO system. FAR outweigh the benefits of anything IN the water before you filter it.
With RO, you KNOW exactly what you have in your water!
With Tap and well water. You DON'T know exactly what is in that water.
The cost of a COMPLETE and DETAILED water testing is not cheap and you will most likely choose to use the RO anyway.

So then,,,,,Use the RO and change the membrane when you see the ppms begin to rise over 10+ ppm.
I use an in-line ppm monitor to keep me on top of that. I count the readings after 10 min of high pressure run time, as it refills a 100 gallon storage tank.
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Iron in water comes in 2 forms. Actual iron oxide and bacterial iron. Both are (for the most part, as you see from the ppm of 4) removed by any quality RO filter. I have seen way HIGH iron/tannin based ppms in the 700+ range reduced to 0-1ppm by good RO units.
The result of these high counts results in you changing the actual RO membrane about every 6 months or a bit more for light use.

The use of Boron or Green sand will remove bacterial iron, with out adding "salts" from water softeners. These units are available from water softener companies, and are simple to instal if you "need" them after a good water quality test. Now then......Do you need one? Not really, if you don't mind changing the RO membrane more often. Boron filters are costly and a recharge of the Boron (aprox every 3 years) is around $300 a pop. Green sand filters are cheaper to recharge, But are costly to start with. Just like the Boron filters. The cost of the RO membranes will be a little over $300 every 3 years without the Iron prefilters and you will still WANT to use the RO after removing the iron.

The positive results from USING an RO system. FAR outweigh the benefits of anything IN the water before you filter it.
With RO, you KNOW exactly what you have in your water!
With Tap and well water. You DON'T know exactly what is in that water.
The cost of a COMPLETE and DETAILED water testing is not cheap and you will most likely choose to use the RO anyway.

So then,,,,,Use the RO and change the membrane when you see the ppms begin to rise over 10+ ppm.
I use an in-line ppm monitor to keep me on top of that. I count the readings after 10 min of high pressure run time, as it refills a 100 gallon storage tank.
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Too bad we will never be able to tell exactly what a specific plant will want for an ideal nutrient mix. In this science it's a game of getting as close as you can. Short of starting with the purest water (or testing your water and including existing nutrients in your calculations, like commercial hydro) and adding and changing individual nutrient levels you will never get to that level of precision. What we can do is make sure we provide more than enough and not too much and we are close enough that the plant really doesn't care, it makes fine tune adjustments to thrive in exactly what's available.

Same applies to lighting. It needs warm + cool + uvb in the right balances and levels for ideal performance. But it's hard to hit ideal especially with it being a moving target with stage of plant growth. The best we can do is get close and let the plants thrive on exactly what is available.
 
AngryPlumber

AngryPlumber

Member
i haven't read your specific complaints but, if the water is too harsh for an RO you should be running it through a softener before the RO. If your water is truly coming out of a faucet at 90 ppm TDS it shouldn't be leaving anything close to rust coloration and/or stains.
 
Spatula Boy

Spatula Boy

Member
AngryPlumber said:
i haven't read your specific complaints but, if the water is too harsh for an RO you should be running it through a softener before the RO. If your water is truly coming out of a faucet at 90 ppm TDS it shouldn't be leaving anything close to rust coloration and/or stains.
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Thank you all for the responses. I think step one will be to get some calibration fluid for the TDS meter to make sure it's not lying to me, because I feel the same way about seeing discoloration,although it took 100 gallons of water to leave those deposits...after that, ill just let it run until the ppms start to rise. It sounds like just keeping an eye on it is certainly the cheapest route if i can get 4-6 months out of a membrane. If it doesnt last that long, I'll hook up a sediment filter. It seems to me that rusty pipes are pretty common, so I'm gonna put some faith in the fact that I cant find any horror stories about rust chewing up filters or killing plants. I'll just have to see what happens.
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Spatula Boy said:
Thank you all for the responses. I think step one will be to get some calibration fluid for the TDS meter to make sure it's not lying to me, because I feel the same way about seeing discoloration,although it took 100 gallons of water to leave those deposits...after that, ill just let it run until the ppms start to rise. It sounds like just keeping an eye on it is certainly the cheapest route if i can get 4-6 months out of a membrane. If it doesnt last that long, I'll hook up a sediment filter. It seems to me that rusty pipes are pretty common, so I'm gonna put some faith in the fact that I cant find any horror stories about rust chewing up filters or killing plants. I'll just have to see what happens.
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Yes, double check the TDS because that is an amazingly low PPM for well/tap water. When I didn't trust my PPM meter I just ordered a second from amazon for $14. Just get 2. I use a chemical test to confirm my PH meter from time to time, a second $14 meter is worth the expense to be sure you have good readings.
 
rory420420

rory420420

Well-Known Member
Running hydro? Run r.o...less chance of infectious critters in your water...
One less worry for a few bucks...
We grow pot guys..trade a bag once in a while :-D
 
rory420420

rory420420

Well-Known Member
nomofatum said:
Yes, double check the TDS because that is an amazingly low PPM for well/tap water. When I didn't trust my PPM meter I just ordered a second from amazon for $14. Just get 2. I use a chemical test to confirm my PH meter from time to time, a second $14 meter is worth the expense to be sure you have good readings.
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I second this,my last rdwc grow flopped halfway thru flower,partially to an inaccurate meter..eBay has calibration kits..$30 and you got it all.and worth the $ too.
 
rory420420

rory420420

Well-Known Member
Certain water systems have bacteria in them..maybe not harmful to us but....
I've known hydro growers who had issues due to their water,UNTILL they went r.o...
Think of it as extra armor in the war against fuck-ups :-D
nomofatum said:
Never heard of that one before, what kinds of infectious critters?
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rory420420

rory420420

Well-Known Member
And no,h2o2 etc will not help over time..something WILL go wrong using water in certain areas of the world...
I won't use my well water for this and , a number of other reasons..
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
rory420420 said:
Certain water systems have bacteria in them..maybe not harmful to us but....
I've known hydro growers who had issues due to their water,UNTILL they went r.o...
Think of it as extra armor in the war against fuck-ups :-D
Click to expand...
Causes fuckups when you go RO and don't get the right nutes though. Also costs more in the end for the same result. RO is useful where needed, but not normally needed.
 
rory420420

rory420420

Well-Known Member
But that's your actions,that are known..what happens in the spring and algae blooms in your local resivoir,and you had no idea?
Or..you can just take shots in the dark in your grow,like you do...
"Too bad we will never be able to tell exactly what a specific plant will want for an ideal nutrient mix. In this science it's a game of getting as close as you can. Short of starting with the purest water (or testing your water and including existing nutrients in your calculations, like commercial hydro) and adding and changing individual nutrient levels you will never get to that level of precision. What we can do is make sure we provide more than enough and not too much and we are close enough that the plant really doesn't care, it makes fine tune adjustments to thrive in exactly what's available."
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
I have a well that comes straight up from over 100ft down, 0 chance of any algae. City water has chlorine and also generally comes from deep enough to not have algae. That risk is nill. RO is be no means needed or even really helpful in most cases. A sediment filter or a sediment filter + carbon filter is the most 99% of us should need. RO is wasteful both in water and money in most cases. Only on rare exception is it really needed. It's also a bitch if you don't get a fast enough system. Too much complication to solve a simple problem, just match the nutrient you buy to your water.
 
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