You know deploying the Zyklon B like that isn't going to win friends and influence people!
Is this Zinc Deficient?
- Thread starter JSheeze
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- dwc zinc deficiency
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
It winnows friends and inters people, meh good enough
Can you quote one? He still hasn't gotten over me winning the wax does distill argument. We went round and round about that one.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I would be greatly obliged if you provided a peer-reviewed reference.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Nah the back and forth is fun. Don't take it to seriously. You are a good guy and a great deal of fun. Further you sound like you have it together as a grower and are willing to learn.
Nothing more humbling than having a couple graduate degrees and having a f'n plant hand you your ass LOL
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
No worries, I was having some fun. I didn't mean to be mean. Stick around.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
"The tragedy of science ... a beautiful hypothesis slain by an ugly fact." T.H. Huxley iirc
Precisely, a buffer and guess what a buffer does.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I come from a general-chemistry background. In that context, alkalinity is simply an alkaline pH. I believe you are using a term of art from water engineers, in which alkalinity is something different. Specifically it is the water's capacity to absorb acids, which is a measure of its buffering capacity. Buffers are linked to pH. So I am sticking to my claim.
Buffer is as buffer does.
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
So... glad to know there's some validated expertise in here.
Is the consensus they are underfed? Changing the 'pH down' to nitric over phosphoric given the water analysis isn't going mess things up? Stay away from Ca-Mg supplement as well as MgSO4?
How alkali Na2O? How basic? There is or isn't a difference? In aqueous solutions they are interchangeable terms but they do mean different things? Or no? Just gleaned some back and forth and now I'm curious..
EDIT: got confused on what people were confused on, so confusing lol thought there was a debate on the difference between basic and alkaline.. If a solution is over 7 pH then it has OH- ions rather than H+ ions right? And visa versa for an acidic solution? The molarity of these ions directly correlates to the solution pH? Its been awhile lol so help me out
Is the consensus they are underfed? Changing the 'pH down' to nitric over phosphoric given the water analysis isn't going mess things up? Stay away from Ca-Mg supplement as well as MgSO4?
How alkali Na2O? How basic? There is or isn't a difference? In aqueous solutions they are interchangeable terms but they do mean different things? Or no? Just gleaned some back and forth and now I'm curious..
EDIT: got confused on what people were confused on, so confusing lol thought there was a debate on the difference between basic and alkaline.. If a solution is over 7 pH then it has OH- ions rather than H+ ions right? And visa versa for an acidic solution? The molarity of these ions directly correlates to the solution pH? Its been awhile lol so help me out
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@cannabineer
Ok I don't know if the consensus is underfed but that's the first thing I would do, give them more food. I wouldn't stay away from Ca/Mg supplementation as I have 250 ppm and still give mine 5 ml of CaliMagic/gallon. I use General Hydroponics 3 part Flora series and it's works well for me and I like the ratio of Ca to Mg in it. If you are giving Ca and Mg from both your water and as a supplement I probably wouldn't add a third source just to keep it simple.
Giving a little to much Ca/Mg doesn't really hurt but it can confuse things. So I'd up their feed so they are getting about 600 in Nutrients. So measure your water going in with your TDS meter then add your nutrients and subtract your water's ppm from that and shoot for 600 to 800 range.
For example my tap water is 250. I run about 900ish during most of flower so my actual nutrient level is about 650.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I concur.
The plants look ion-hungry.
And I am always amazed at how much cal and mag Cannabis plants like.
I'm a big fan of cal-mag.
@JSheeze
I have used nitric acid as a veg pH-down and phosphoric as a flower pH-down. My stock of nitric is gone, so phosphoric has done all pH-down duty in my last grows. The acid should be a small fraction of total N or P, so I don't think of it as changing nutrient levels.
As for pH, the Golden Rule is that [H3O+] times [OH-] always equals 10 to the minus 14 (units become moles squared per liter squared, so the units are thrown out by universal chemists' convention of venality). This is a basic property of the solvent we choose: water.
As pH and pOH are sign-flipped exponents, pH and pOH always add up to 14.
Alkaline, to a general chemist, means "a pH greater than 7". I remember when shampoos were being marketed as "non-alkaline" in the '70s, and that just meant " a pH less than 7".
From what I infer, alkalinity to a hydrologist is something different ... a buffering capacity expressed in mmol per liter. I imagine that it takes x mmol/l to achieve a neutral pH, which is used as a marker for "total alkalinity" but not its measure.
So yes. A pH of 6 means "hydrogen ion concentration of ten to the minus 6 molar" and necessarily "hydroxide ion concentration of ten to the minus 8 molar", as 14 minus 6 is well you get it.
Heehee, instructing collegians in chemistry does come in handy every now and then!
Not sure about the sodium oxide question.
Magnesium sulfate heptahydrate is 10.0% magnesium by weight. Thus, adding one gram of Epsom salt to a 100-liter res will bump its [Mg] by one PPM. In my twenty-liter batches, 5 grams gave a 25-ppm Mg boost. The S doesn't hurt either.
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JSheeze
Well-Known Member
That was great, Thanks for the refresher!I concur.
The plants look ion-hungry.
And I am always amazed at how much cal and mag Cannabis plants like.
I'm a big fan of cal-mag.
@JSheeze
I have used nitric acid as a veg pH-down and phosphoric as a flower pH-down. My stock of nitric is gone, so phosphoric has done all pH-down duty in my last grows. The acid should be a small fraction of total N or P, so I don't think of it as changing nutrient levels.
As for pH, the Golden Rule is that [H3O+] times [OH-] always equals 10 to the minus 14 (units become moles squared per liter squared, so the units are thrown out by universal chemists' convention of venality). This is a basic property of the solvent we choose: water.
As pH and pOH are sign-flipped exponents, pH and pOH always add up to 14.
Alkaline, to a general chemist, means "a pH greater than 7". I remember when shampoos were being marketed as "non-alkaline" in the '70s, and that just meant " a pH less than 7".
From what I infer, alkalinity to a hydrologist is something different ... a buffering capacity expressed in mmol per liter. I imagine that it takes x mmol/l to achieve a neutral pH, which is used as a marker for "total alkalinity" but not its measure.
So yes. A pH of 6 means "hydrogen ion concentration of ten to the minus 6 molar" and necessarily "hydroxide ion concentration of ten to the minus 8 molar", as 14 minus 6 is well you get it.
Heehee, instructing collegians in chemistry does come in handy every now and then!
Not sure about the sodium oxide question.
Magnesium sulfate heptahydrate is 10.0% magnesium by weight. Thus, adding one gram of Epsom salt to a 100-liter res will bump its [Mg] by one PPM. In my twenty-liter batches, 5 grams gave a 25-ppm Mg boost. The S doesn't hurt either.
.
My Na2O question was trying to tease at the difference between hydroxide and oxide bases in terms of alkalinity? Na2O is a base but is not alkaline due to no hydroxide? Does it have to be a hydroxide to be alkaline? Na2O will react with acids and so will NaOH but one only gives OH- ions in water while the other reacts to make water? ... ... All these questions were stemming from my confusion on what was being debated when it came to pH. I thought there was a debate between "alkaline" and "basic" being the same thing... Oops haha but now that I have you I figured why not learn..
Its been about 15 years since O-chem and even longer for gen1&2, but let's get real I slept through most of them haha - its fading fast!
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I'll up my feed and keep that Ca-Mg handy. 600ppm+ on bottled nutes.
Thanks to everyone, @cannabineer , @curious2garden , @JohnDee , @Blitz35 , @Renfro , @NaturalFarmer
Let us know, best of luck
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Sodium oxide is extremely alkaline. It is quantitatively converted to the hydroxide by water.That was great, Thanks for the refresher!
.
My Na2O question was trying to tease at the difference between hydroxide and oxide bases in terms of alkalinity? Na2O is a base but is not alkaline due to no hydroxide? Does it have to be a hydroxide to be alkaline? Na2O will react with acids and so will NaOH but one only gives OH- ions in water while the other reacts to make water? ... ... All these questions were stemming from my confusion on what was being debated when it came to pH. I thought there was a debate between "alkaline" and "basic" being the same thing... Oops haha but now that I have you I figured why not learn..
Its been about 15 years since O-chem and even longer for gen1&2, but let's get real I slept through most of them haha - its fading fast!
I have always used alkaline and basic as synonyms.
I was wide awake during Orgo. It was like being in the presence of revealed truth. I grooved on it.
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
Fair enough.
And lol ya I hear I like to learn but definitely no wiz, school was a jungle for me (at my extreme maturity level) lol but I think I remember most of it (probably not even close lol), sometimes need the refreshers. Thanks, here's a few chuckles I'll send your way..
You hear Potassium and Oxygen went on a date?
It was OK.
...
A proton and a neutron are walking down the street.
The proton says, "Wait, I dropped an electron help me look for it."
The neutron says "Are you sure?" The proton replies "I'm positive."
...
Helium walks into a bar,
The bar tender says "We don't serve noble gasses in here."
Helium doesn't react.
...
Got any Sodium jokes?
Na.
...
https://www.inorganicventures.com/fun-chemists
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